Suicidal Tendencies

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby moonrise » Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:43 pm

Oh good! lucky you lucky420! 8)

I unsuscribed, then I posted, then I looked, now I posted again, now fuck, I'm going to unsuscribe, again, we hope! (seriously, I'm gonna unsuscribe) 8)
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Ugly Dougly » Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:55 pm

Oh, M.R., you're not a Gemini are you?
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Elliot » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:34 pm

Don't know what to say.

Let me try this round-about way: I recently discovered that the country of Norway (where I grew up) has sex education on public television. For example, the other day they ran an episode designed to help women learn how to achieve orgasm. This program featured a woman masturbating, with a health professional coaching her, and every last detail on view. (I do not have access to these programs, but they are described on the Norwegian Broadcasting Company web site.)

My point has nothing to do with sex, but I wanted to illustrate the openness and lack of taboos that exists in some more enlightened parts of the world.

So I feel this frightening thread about suicide has a legitimate purpose. It is a fact that suicides happen, and rather a lot of them, so perhaps it ought to be OK to talk about it.

(I'll allow one sentence of comic relief at this point: "No, I do not mean to teach suicide on television!" (We MUST cling to our sense of humor!))

So. I apologize to those I may offend or worse. This may be the freakiest sentence ever posted on ePlaya: I am suicidal. Don't grab the telephone -- I'm "fine" right now. I'll make you a promise: I'll stay alive and uninjured at least thru November. For dawgs sake, don't call 911. I have all those people at my fingertips, and I live two blocks from the hospital. It is my personal friends I would like to have an open and rational dialog with. (If you "must panic", my telephone number is 707/XXX-XXXX. I always answer "This is Elliot.")

Enough for now. After lunch (a neighbor just brought me waffles -- I'm not alone), I shall explain why I have survived this sort of trouble for decades and will keep the promise I just gave you.

Oh... and no need to teach me orgasms. I had one an hour ago. :wink:



edited phone number out per poster's request. Sham...
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:52 pm

Nice morning, orgasms and waffles...

Somehow us metaphorically lame and blind lead each other through the treacherous minefield, and many of us survive for a very long time and even die of something else...

Did anyone see the Swedish(?) study about circumsision? (Just a note about how generally ahead of us the Scandinavians are...) (I won't even go into Icelandic knees.)
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby lucky420 » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:57 pm

((Elliot)) I am glad you're not alone right now. I am worried for you though. Please reach out to your close friends, they'd most likely be pissed if you didn't.


Oh... and no need to teach me orgasms. I had one an hour ago.


hopefully things will be looking up again soon :wink:
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Elliot » Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:24 pm

All right, I said I would explain something after lunch.

Obviously, it is difficult to grasp what is really going on in a human brain -- specially one that is struggling with unusually painful or frustrating issues. But I believe I have a clear picture of why I have not died, by choice, in the last three or four years. I have so many obligations to friends, and I have not found it in my heart to let them down. There are projects to work on, debts to repay and so forth. All stuff I have told friends, and my brother and my cousin, that I would tend to in due time. Heck, if I were to die today, my real estate and personal belongings (like my Kinetic and BM vehicles) would probably wind up bulldozed (more or less literally) by the county. My brother has a somewhat valuable car parked in my garage -- would he even be able to retrieve it? That's what keeps me alive. I simply have no right.... Nothing to do with my own body and mind -- both of which I would prefer to dispose of as soon as possible.

How's that for a concrete answer to Maryanimal's question a while back?

And it is that cursed sense of responsibility, fairness, perfectionism and honesty that will keep me alive at least to the end of November, as I promised you.

Anecdote.... And this relates somewhat to my lighthearted "learn to say yes" lessons on the Bar 3 thread: In 2007, one of my camp mates was a certain lady. Laura is a great (platonic) friend from the Kinetic Sculpture Racing circuit. She is also one of the most "square" people I know -- she wore a bikini top in Critical Tits. One evening, a few of us were standing outside in camp, watching the stars or something. I happened to be naked and drunk, and the air was still warm. So I tried to convince the others that they ought to also enjoy the air with their whole bodies. At some point of this, I tried to pull Laura's pants off.

Skip to later, when I'm sober, and I asked Laura if I owed her an apology. She said no, not at all. In fact, she said, it had been nice to see me more relaxed than usual for once.

That suggests how uptight I often am! The kind who does not like breaking promises. Still alive.

So.... A couple of weeks ago, "assisted" by the unfavorable effects of influenza, I decided to kill myself around the last week of November. And I felt a huge sense of relief. For two weeks I reveled in my "victory"; I was finally able to "look out for number one" -- that is, put myself out of my misery without worrying about the comparatively minor annoyances I would inflict on friends and relatives.

Well, now I have doubts again. So I'm here at least a couple more weeks for sure.

Friends, I'm trying to get to the bottom of some of the Stuff in my confused mind here. Maybe these posts of mine are simply self-administered talk-therapy. Anyroad, enough for now. Time for a cup of hot chocolate.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby ygmir » Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:48 pm

So Elliot:
Will you share a birthday (mine) drink with me?
I'm inviting you to my birthday party.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Dr. Pyro » Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:43 pm

That's not for another 46 weeks or so from now. Now, invite me today and I'll....uh, never mind. This isn't as funny as I thought it was going to be. Carry on.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Elliot » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:24 am

ygmir wrote:So Elliot:
Will you share a birthday (mine) drink with me?
I'm inviting you to my birthday party.


I'm being told I need to get out of the house -- and out of Clearlake -- more, so you'll have to do. :wink:

DAWG! it feels good to finally lance this boil. Does it seem bizarre how I'm doing it? You should see it from my side. :roll:
Seriously, I may actually sleep well now. 'Nite. And thanks.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby ygmir » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:27 am

nuthin bizarre there, Elliot. We do, what we must, to be "ok".
you're a kind man, and, deserve to lance that dang thing.
.......but yeah, get out, visit, do...........
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Elliot » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:50 am

Ygmir, maybe I'll remember to bring your light bars as your birthday present. :D
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby ygmir » Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:01 am

haha, well, your memory will be proven better than mine, then.............
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby maryanimal » Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:08 am

Thanks Elliot! :wink:
Sometimes I'm confused by what I think is really obvious. But what I think is really obvious obviously isn't obvious.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Elliot » Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:36 am

:D Ahhh.... The great joy of frosty mornings; pre-warming clothes in the dryer before putting them on!

Do I want my air-breathing blood-flowing life to stop? Of course not. I want my lethal-level emotional frustration to stop.

No more suicides by Burners and their loved ones! Even if I have to lead the campaign myself and die just as surely from embarrassment.

Still ice cold in the living room -- back later.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Elliot » Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:35 am

Random observations from recent months:

Recommended -- Using the Freecycle list to get surplus and useless space-consuming items like vinyl records and slide projector out of the house -- while pleasing others at the same time.

Not recommended -- Keeping a plastic bag and a roll of tape on my nightstand.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:36 am

Elliot wrote:I want my lethal-level emotional frustration to stop.

I think this is one of the best descriptions of what depression does to the brain, heart, human. This is what the suicidal want to cease, the other stuff is collateral damage...
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby mdmf007 » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:57 am

As a remedy for pain - suicide is way too permanent. I am thinking that whatever fog or pain someone has to be more temporary than the solution. There are so many avenues for help out there reach out....
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby HiBbY » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:11 pm

I hope your freind gets through her tough patch. especially when she has a kid.. having a dead or dieing parent is one of the worst things that could ever happen to a child.. The ancient egyptians, were very interested in the funtions of the pineal gland, believed that it was the key to moving onto another, much more beautiful plain of existence. As well they believed that those who caused grief, and displeased the gods, would have their sould seouls damned to an endless void of nothingness.. a "hell" so to speak... life is a beautiful thing, and the life of an artist is a horrible thing to waste.

I wish her love strong enough to pull through and do something amazing with her life :::)

Stay Shpongled.. and good luck
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:18 pm

mdmf007 wrote:As a remedy for pain - suicide is way too permanent. I am thinking that whatever fog or pain someone has to be more temporary than the solution. There are so many avenues for help out there reach out....

There are also a lot of blocks to treatment. No money in the public coffers, and my experience is 10 to 6 years ago, or more. Depressives aren't particularly persistent, they don't have the energy. I'd love it if there was a single phone number or website you could call or enter and a wide array of services would be lined up for your selection. Scott had anxiety and bi-polar. Services were barely available and we went to ers multiple times trying to find a program that would work. It was very bleak. I can't remember or describe what happened, but that would still be going on if he were alive, and the mere thought of trying again just sends me into a shut down.
There's a whole lot that can be done, but that sector is under-financed....
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Elliot » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:19 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
Elliot wrote:I want my lethal-level emotional frustration to stop.

I think this is one of the best descriptions of what depression does to the brain, heart, human. This is what the suicidal want to cease, the other stuff is collateral damage...


We may have the beginnings of a consensus on some sort of definition.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Elliot » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:33 pm

mdmf007 wrote:As a remedy for pain - suicide is way too permanent.


Yes. Trouble is, best as I can understand things medical, pain itself can actually be fatal. So we are discussing pain prevention and abatement here.
As for "avenues for help".... My local County Mental Health Nurse Practitioner and her supervising M.D. have proven unqualified as tour guides on this road system (in my case), so I'm trying to spread a map out on the table here. All help very much appreciated.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:39 pm

Elliot wrote:
mdmf007 wrote:As a remedy for pain - suicide is way too permanent.


Yes. Trouble is, best as I can understand things medical, pain itself can actually be fatal. So we are discussing pain prevention and abatement here.
As for "avenues for help".... My local County Mental Health Nurse Practitioner and her supervising M.D. have proven unqualified as tour guides on this road system (in my case), so I'm trying to spread a map out on the table here. All help very much appreciated.


This may help you to understand some of the places on that map. Very readable, very broad, and lots of personal account. I don't know if it comes up with a tidy "answer" bt it does ask interesting questions.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Elliot » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:43 pm

There's a whole lot that can be done, but that sector is under-financed....


Allowing for the realistic limits of medical science, I suppose that is why I am out here in the in the middle of the street, stark naked, screaming at the top of my lungs, begging for help from a "gift economy".
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:47 pm

We're here. Close to 24/7. I don't know if we have the know-how and equipment to do the heavy lifting. But we can hold hands and offer hugs. (Hey, touch is important!)

(((((((Elliot)))))))
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby ygmir » Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:29 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:We're here. Close to 24/7. I don't know if we have the know-how and equipment to do the heavy lifting. But we can hold hands and offer hugs. (Hey, touch is important!)

(((((((Elliot)))))))



+10
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby moonrise » Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:28 pm

ygmir wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:We're here. Close to 24/7. I don't know if we have the know-how and equipment to do the heavy lifting. But we can hold hands and offer hugs. (Hey, touch is important!)

(((((((Elliot)))))))



+10


+10 (((Elliot)))
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Patsh » Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:21 pm

moonrise wrote:
ygmir wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:We're here. Close to 24/7. I don't know if we have the know-how and equipment to do the heavy lifting. But we can hold hands and offer hugs. (Hey, touch is important!)

(((((((Elliot)))))))



+10


+10 (((Elliot)))


+10 (((((((Elliot)))))))
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby motskyroonmatick » Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:40 pm

Have you had your Hot Chocolate yet tonight Eliot? Little treats are the best!

Here are some things that help push back the doldrums for me. Try them if you want. Maybe you know them already?

Giving my self a treat. (Food or drink or inexpensive retail therapy.)

Finishing a small project. Especially effective if it is one I have put off.

Recognizing when I have an outrageous thought and reminding myself that I thought that but I don't need to think that and would prefer not to think that thought.

Working on or thinking/planning something that will make my future better or easier.

Trying to forgive my self for my faults.

Showing off something I have made. (and then doing as best I can to accept compliments well)

Reminding my self I am one of a kind and way more of a good and positive influence than a negative one in this world.

Reading.

I admire the contraptions you make Eliot and I want to take a look at Milicent the next time you are on the playa. It's definitely in many ways a bad ass vehicle. I'm pulling for you.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Ugly Dougly » Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:57 pm

I went through a bit of this a few years back.
When I felt that terrible emptiness, I finally decided that feeling empty didn't have to be a bad thing. It just was.
That helped me, I am not sure what it will do for you.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Elliot » Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:34 pm

It has been an interesting day with several PMs and telephone conversations. All very much appreciated.

Here is one of the Weird Things on my mind:
Let's think of me as a business. I have been in business as an adult for 45 years -- 14 to 59. Out of that time, ten years showed a profit (were enjoyable), and the other 35 years showed a loss (were emotionally painful). The business is now in debt and operating at a loss. Any sensible business owner would shut the doors and stop throwing good money after bad. That's kind'a how I feel.

Except that.... I have employees. Many friends, plus my brother, who all in some way depend on the wages my business generates for them. If I shut down the business to protect myself, they would suffer. So I feel obligated to subsidize the business out of my personal resources (continuing emotional distress) to keep the doors open.

Cost-benefit analysis. Return on investment. Simple.

Add a frosting of constant regrets.

I ran this concept by a couple of you by PM earlier today. Any other thoughts?

-------------------------

I don't believe people see their lives flash before their eyes when they die. I'm watching mine now, agonizing reel by agonizing reel. How do I turn that projector-from-hell off?

-------------------------

Thanks, Motsky -- good stuff. Maybe I'll swing by Da Bar 3 for some hot chocolate.

-------------------------

Evening recap: Luckily, I'm sleeping decently these days (nights), so I should be bright-eyed and bushy-tailed in the morning. I appreciate you.

Elliot
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