sell licenses instead of tickets

Want to talk about tickets? You've come to the right place

sell licenses instead of tickets

Postby gpickard » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:09 pm

sell licenses instead of tickets.

One license per person.

Confirm identity upon event entry.

License is non-transferable.

Can be returned to burning man if one can't attend. BM will refund full or partial... BM can resell to those on waiting list.

Scalpers taken out of the equation.

Call it a "BRC Passport"...

if you think it makes sense, pass it around!
gpickard
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:59 pm

Re: sell licenses instead of tickets

Postby happydragon » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:23 pm

I like the passport idea, but you should be able to buy more than one per person, I usually gift a ticket to my GF and buy them together, would suck if one of us got one and the other didn't. So some reasonable "family/group" purchase of said passports.
User avatar
happydragon
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:53 am
Location: San Diego / New Orleans
Burning Since: 2010

Re: sell licenses instead of tickets

Postby gpickard » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:43 pm

You could purchase more than one passport, but it would have to be registered to someone. Each passport registered to one person.
gpickard
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:59 pm

Re: sell licenses instead of tickets

Postby Rat Bastard » Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:40 pm

I really like this. Similar to hunting licenses or gun, drivers or whatever. BRC Passport sounds awesome.

I proposed a similar thought in the tickets complaint/solutions thread. Limit lower tiers to only those who registered before BM2011. Noobs pay full price. Scalpers really aren't the issue. BM's computers that run the ticketing cue and sales are the problem. They continually have issues with them every year. Shrug their shoulders and say "Meh, it was a computer malfunction". Then how does Ticketmaster and Tickets.com have their shit together and BM doesn't? Thought BM was innovative?
Read my posts with a grain of salt.
User avatar
Rat Bastard
 
Posts: 296
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:19 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: sell licenses instead of tickets

Postby danibel » Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:20 am

Add a car permit and I am in.

Why hasn't anyone addressed the real issue of cars in all this ticket mess? Why not sell tickets to individuals as well as cars? Offer a cheaper price for carpools? Encourage people to double up and reduce the impact on the local roads? The whole entry/exodus issue could be helped with that sort of solution.

Just a thought.
In dust we trust.
User avatar
danibel
 
Posts: 521
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:50 pm
Location: Ben Lomond, CA
Burning Since: 2009
Camp Name: Camp D'nile

Re: sell licenses instead of tickets

Postby Joshy Neurotic » Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:24 am

why not just print out tickets with name on the ticket. and use the refund idea if a person cannot make it.
Joshy Neurotic
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:38 pm

Re: sell licenses instead of tickets

Postby bradtem » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:21 am

There are ways to do this without putting a name on the ticket (and thus demanding ID to enter.) In fact, much easier is to just use the credit card used to buy the tickets, which can be quickly read and verified with a swipe, though you need a backup method if the card is lost/stolen. Also it can't be a prepaid card as scalpers would just buy lots of those. For those, and for the backup, a jpeg of your face, tattoos or genitals (if you plan to arrive naked) is all that's needed -- not your name.

And, as you will see in discussion of this in other threads, it also is no big problem to let one person have multiple tickets tied to them. The other people don't need to be identified in any way, as long as they enter the gate with the multi-ticket holder. In theory, a very dedicated and expensive scalper could sell you the chance to come into BM with them for a large price, but that doesn't really scale, does it.
See giant panoramas of BRC: http://www.templetons.com/brad/burn
User avatar
bradtem
 
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:27 pm
Location: Silicon Valley
Burning Since: 1998

Re: sell licenses instead of tickets

Postby Galaxo Magic » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:12 am

bradtem wrote:There are ways to do this without putting a name on the ticket (and thus demanding ID to enter.) In fact, much easier is to just use the credit card used to buy the tickets, which can be quickly read and verified with a swipe, though you need a backup method if the card is lost/stolen. Also it can't be a prepaid card as scalpers would just buy lots of those. For those, and for the backup, a jpeg of your face, tattoos or genitals (if you plan to arrive naked) is all that's needed -- not your name.

And, as you will see in discussion of this in other threads, it also is no big problem to let one person have multiple tickets tied to them. The other people don't need to be identified in any way, as long as they enter the gate with the multi-ticket holder. In theory, a very dedicated and expensive scalper could sell you the chance to come into BM with them for a large price, but that doesn't really scale, does it.

Some of us have given up credit cards. I do not own any. I would have to get one just to get a BM ticket? That seems absurd. I still have a debit card, would that pass for a credit card?

I like the passport idea. A passport holder could have more than one ticket as long as those folks that are using the other tickets arrive with said passport holder....
Elephant trainer to the MV Beau Le'Phant, the pink elephant!
Camp Upsie Dasium
User avatar
Galaxo Magic
 
Posts: 570
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 1:42 am
Location: Somewhere west of there

Re: sell licenses instead of tickets

Postby junglesmacks » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:19 am

Debit card = credit card
Savannah wrote:It sounds freaky & wrong, so you need to do it.
User avatar
junglesmacks
 
Posts: 5809
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 9:54 pm
Location: Orlando, FL/Kailua, HI
Camp Name: Your mom's tent

Re: sell licenses instead of tickets

Postby bradtem » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:23 am

I believe the current lottery plan also requires a credit card.

If you are not checking the credit card, this is less limiting, because even people who don't have cards have friends who do, and can give the friends cash to buy a ticket for them. But you can't bring your friends' card.

Prepaid cards can also work in a system that requires a card, but as noted scalpers can also use those, so they are not a great idea in an anti-scalper system. As debated in other threads, it is still uncertain how big the scalper threat is, and non-transferable tickets would only be used if it is believed the threat is high. You can get prepaid credit cards in many grocery stores, there are even a few left you can get without ID.

I don't know what fraction of tickets are currently purchased on credit cards, but I presume it is high. The total cost of credit card processing is 2% or more of the total take, so going 100% credit card is expensive unless you are already at 95% credit card. However, the $6 or so credit card processors will take competes in the minds of many with the hassles of processing cheques and cash. I presume the walk-in outlets take more than $6 per ticket sold.

If you don't think 2% is a lot, realize that Burning Man only pays 3% to the BLM. (That's the base fee, it also has to pay for cops and other non-optional extortions.)
See giant panoramas of BRC: http://www.templetons.com/brad/burn
User avatar
bradtem
 
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:27 pm
Location: Silicon Valley
Burning Since: 1998

Re: sell licenses instead of tickets

Postby Galaxo Magic » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:30 am

Thank you bradtem.

Curious, will this mean NO ticket sales at ticket outlets? I do not mind buying Tier 3 tickets and have bought my ticket three times in Sacramento since 2001.
Elephant trainer to the MV Beau Le'Phant, the pink elephant!
Camp Upsie Dasium
User avatar
Galaxo Magic
 
Posts: 570
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 1:42 am
Location: Somewhere west of there

Re: sell licenses instead of tickets

Postby bradtem » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:40 am

There have been no final plans announced, but the lottery plan described as it is will be credit card based, and it would be difficult to do walk-up sales under it. I could figure some ways to do it but they involve multiple trips -- going in to get your lottery entry, going in again to pay -- or paying first and going in for a refund. They aren't very good approaches though. If people could bypass the lottery by going to walk-in, the walk-ins would get swamped.
See giant panoramas of BRC: http://www.templetons.com/brad/burn
User avatar
bradtem
 
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:27 pm
Location: Silicon Valley
Burning Since: 1998

Re: sell licenses instead of tickets

Postby britzbitz » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:46 am

gpickard wrote:Can be returned to burning man if one can't attend. BM will refund full or partial... BM can resell to those on waiting list.


Right here is the major weakness in your idea.

SO MUCH ADMINISTRATION. The ticket admin for our festival would cry if something like this were implemented.

It's bad enough getting tickets out…getting them back, and then RE-selling them (with the potential for those tickets to come back to you when that person suddenly can't go)? Nightmare.
"the aim of life is to live, and to live means to be aware - joyously, drunkenly, serenely, divinely aware." - henry miller
User avatar
britzbitz
 
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:32 pm
Location: Nelson BC
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: DISTRIKT / Couch Surfer at FunkyTown

Re: sell licenses instead of tickets

Postby Galaxo Magic » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:09 pm

If ticket outlets only had $400 tickets then they would not get swamped and those of us that have that kind of money do not mind paying for the convenience of having ticket in hand.

Just some ideas on an otherwise overcast day.
Elephant trainer to the MV Beau Le'Phant, the pink elephant!
Camp Upsie Dasium
User avatar
Galaxo Magic
 
Posts: 570
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 1:42 am
Location: Somewhere west of there

Re: sell licenses instead of tickets

Postby bradtem » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:29 pm

Galaxo Magic wrote:If ticket outlets only had $400 tickets then they would not get swamped and those of us that have that kind of money do not mind paying for the convenience of having ticket in hand.

Just some ideas on an otherwise overcast day.


An interesting thought. As you may expect, Burning Man is reluctant to do the normal market response to scarcity and just raise the prices, not wanting to create an impression that Burning Man is for the rich and that they are after maximum profits. So saying, "Lottery at lower prices, assured ticket at higher prices" normally would go against that, it once again suggests officially in some way that wealth is the way to a BM ticket. (Of course, wealth does strongly affect your ability to go to Burning Man, but not by direct policy of the org.)

What you suggest might fly a little better, because it might be taken as not wealth that bypasses the lottery, but the effort to go to a walk-in outlet.

There are other techniques to fix scarcity with price but they have their issues. Normally, one way to set prices for a scarce item is a uniform price auction (sometimes called a Dutch Auction though that turns out to be slightly different.) What this means is everybody does a secret bid of their full offer, and the top 50,000 bidders get tickets at the price of the bid in 50,000th place. However, if demand is high that price could be quite high, and if so, would indeed cause people to complain that BM is for the rich now, and the org took a fat profit. It could fix the latter by declaring that any amount over some price, like $300, would be donated to Burning Man Project, but that would not fix the former issue.

And thus, and for other reasons, they have gone with a lottery.
See giant panoramas of BRC: http://www.templetons.com/brad/burn
User avatar
bradtem
 
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:27 pm
Location: Silicon Valley
Burning Since: 1998

Re: sell licenses instead of tickets

Postby Galaxo Magic » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:42 pm

Yes, I see.
I am not concerned. I spent 15 years doing Grateful Dead tickets and their mail order system was a sort of lottery. Folks would embellish their envelopes in hopes that it would improve their chance to score tickets. I only got shut out twice in 200+ shows, both times because I did not get a ticket in advance. I will survive. I always do. There is always Hawaii!
Elephant trainer to the MV Beau Le'Phant, the pink elephant!
Camp Upsie Dasium
User avatar
Galaxo Magic
 
Posts: 570
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 1:42 am
Location: Somewhere west of there

Re: sell licenses instead of tickets

Postby Isotopia » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:50 pm

Galaxco, you bring up an interesting point. I know a good number of folks who don't have a credit card or have a bank account. The reasons don't really matter save that there are many reasons for them not having access to electronic currency. This small but real segment of BM folks are automatically being put at a disadvantage given the stated albeit vague intentions of the BMORG.

And before anyone goes yelping at how that segment should embrace an electronic monetary lifestyle in order to gain equal footing in this proposed lottery, I'll note that more than a few of the people I speak of work or have worked for the DPW.

So I guess a straight forward question I'd put out there is would be to ask if the BMORG has taken this reality into account or if it can/will be addressed?
User avatar
Isotopia
 
Posts: 2813
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:26 am

Re: sell licenses instead of tickets

Postby trilobyte » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:03 pm

I do believe it is being taken into account, yes.

It's also worth noting that a pre-paid card in the amount that covers the purchase can be had from many many outlets in most cities, for a minimal fee. You take your cash to a retail outlet (check cashing joint, etc) and they issue you a card pre-loaded with that spending limit. It's a way that someone who does not have a regular credit/debit card (for whatever reason) can make purchases that require a credit card/shop online. Once the details and FAQ are posted, if it looks like that would be something people would need to learn more about, we can start looking into posting more info about it.
User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
 
Posts: 10622
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: San Francisco
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society

Re: sell licenses instead of tickets

Postby Isotopia » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:33 am

Thanks for the timely reply.
User avatar
Isotopia
 
Posts: 2813
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:26 am

Re: sell licenses instead of tickets

Postby Galaxo Magic » Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:57 am

Yes, feeling better already!
Elephant trainer to the MV Beau Le'Phant, the pink elephant!
Camp Upsie Dasium
User avatar
Galaxo Magic
 
Posts: 570
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 1:42 am
Location: Somewhere west of there

Re: sell licenses instead of tickets

Postby jcliff » Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:06 pm

Maybe they should sell permament tickets to Burning Man.....like a timeshare in Boca? How much do you think they would charge for a life-long reserved space?
User avatar
jcliff
 
Posts: 241
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:56 am
Location: Sollitt, Illinois
Burning Since: 2008
Camp Name: Lamplighter Village

Re: sell licenses instead of tickets

Postby bradtem » Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:54 pm

They did sell them to a lucky few people. They were $500 as you were exiting Burning Man 1997. I don't have one but I know some who do. They sold them because they had their money seized and were desperate for money at the end of the event. For many years, the people had a magic ticket but rather than train the gate staff about it, they just mail a ticket free to each lifetime ticket holder every year.

Everybody wished later they had bought one!
See giant panoramas of BRC: http://www.templetons.com/brad/burn
User avatar
bradtem
 
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:27 pm
Location: Silicon Valley
Burning Since: 1998

I like the passport idea.

Postby HippyLabRat » Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:40 am

Get your passport at the gate with your welcome materials. Sell all the passports online. Pay with Amazon, PayPal, or Google Checkout. Easy peasy.

Why this is good...

-If you can't produce a valid ID for every individual, then no entry for those without ID.
-You could make a functional refund program with a secure login system.
-It would make it nearly impossible to scalp tickets
-Secure login would allow for dissemination of special event info to passport holders first.
-You can still print passports, you'd just get them when you arrived at the gate, with your ID... at the same time you get your welcome materials.
-You could personalize the printed passports with whatever name the individual chose as a keepsake/souvenir.
-Waiting in line doesn't need to take longer. Do the search at a "tollboth," while BORGs are searching their vehicle, other BORGs would be looking up their passport info and getting their welcome materials ready. (for regular-sized vehicles this could be easily done 2 cars deep across a handful of lanes)
User avatar
HippyLabRat
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:30 pm
Location: Utah

Re: sell licenses instead of tickets

Postby trilobyte » Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:04 am

No thanks, I prefer this.
User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
 
Posts: 10622
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: San Francisco
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society

Re: sell licenses instead of tickets

Postby jcliff » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:31 am

Thank you Trilobyte! Any idea how they are going to do the registration? Online or mail? Ouch! Last year presale was 280 I thInk. Up to 420 is a big jump. I also wish it was open to more than 3000. People are freaking so bad that I'm wondering if a lot more than 3000 are going to jump on nov 28.
User avatar
jcliff
 
Posts: 241
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:56 am
Location: Sollitt, Illinois
Burning Since: 2008
Camp Name: Lamplighter Village

Re: sell licenses instead of tickets

Postby lemur » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:35 pm

in 2009 and 2010 (for the 10 and 11 burns) the presale tickets were $280 but only 1000 available ....i dont believe they sold out either year..

this was mentioned in 2010 "This pre-sale will run from Wednesday, November 17 at 10am (PST) through December 30 at 11:59pm (PST) or when the allotment of 1,000 tickets is gone, whichever comes first."

there never was any mention i saw of them selling out of that 1000 allotment, im sure they woulda said something if it did get sold out.. (could be wrong)

they are planning for a big influx of people.. moving to 3000 presale tickets... (as well as increasing low income tickets)..
Don't link to anything here!
User avatar
lemur
 
Posts: 3599
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:07 pm
Location: Madagascar
Camp Name: Plug N Play Camp


Return to 2012 Tickets Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest