lotto and organizing theme camps/long term burners

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lotto and organizing theme camps/long term burners

Postby secret kitty » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:05 am

organizing theme camps will be extremely hard when we don't know who is getting a ticket!! We have been organizing camps for 12 years, is there a way we could get a certain amount of tickets per established theme camps alloted to be able to know our core workers will be going, like an artist ticket? I feel bad that all these years I have contributed to the success of the event, working on theme camps and art, and I could get cut out by chance... we already started planning camp for 2012- will our art car mechanic be able to get a ticket? we may not be able to replace him, hence no art car. remember, we built this city!
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Re: lotto and organizing theme camps/long term burners

Postby jkisha » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:10 am

I'm pretty sure most here can relate with the uncertainty the lotto announcement has caused--especially among theme camp organizers.
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Re: lotto and organizing theme camps/long term burners

Postby trilobyte » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:14 am

It may be that before taking dues and accepting someone as a member of the camp, they've got to have a ticket (either in hand, or confirmation from a lottery round). Last year a lot of camps and projects learned some hard lessons because of just that - an essential member hadn't actually gotten their ticket squared away by the end of July, putting the whole thing in jeopardy if they weren't able to sort something out.
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Re: lotto and organizing theme camps/long term burners

Postby jkisha » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:19 am

trilobyte wrote:It may be that before taking dues and accepting someone as a member of the camp, they've got to have a ticket (either in hand, or confirmation from a lottery round). Last year a lot of camps and projects learned some hard lessons because of just that - an essential member hadn't actually gotten their ticket squared away by the end of July, putting the whole thing in jeopardy if they weren't able to sort something out.

Somehow that's different, they had ample opportunity to buy their ticket early and CHOSE not to, and it certainly doesn't garner my sympathy the way someone that missed out on a lotto would.
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Re: lotto and organizing theme camps/long term burners

Postby secret kitty » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:25 am

I agree that procrastination is very different than not getting picked by lotto. if the sales are spread out in tiers into the summer-a member could be trying to plan a camp and still have missed getting a ticket before the theme camp questionaire is due!
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Re: lotto and organizing theme camps/long term burners

Postby Playa Mario » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:53 am

I'm definitely not sure how this lotto system is going to effect my camp that I have been trying to build. I don't understand why I should have to gamble on a ticket when I am building more art to share every year. Why make art for burning man if I'm just going to get screwed out of a ticket?
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Re: lotto and organizing theme camps/long term burners

Postby Nipple » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:57 am

If you didn't try to buy tickets the moment they've become available in previous years, you were already gambling on getting a ticket.

This year, you know the stakes and have an idea of the odds. INFORMED CONSENT.
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Re: lotto and organizing theme camps/long term burners

Postby junglesmacks » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:58 am

Nipple wrote:If you didn't try to buy tickets the moment they've become available in previous years, you were already gambling on getting a ticket.

This year, you know the stakes and have an idea of the odds. INFORMED CONSENT.



Exactly. The gamble this year is pretty much the same as the gamble EVERY YEAR.. in that.. if you don't prepare and buy your ticket early, you may not get one. Simple as that. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand. You people can organize theme camps, build art and survive in a desert.. but you can't grasp the concept of simply preparing early?

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Re: lotto and organizing theme camps/long term burners

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:45 am

secret kitty wrote:We have been organizing camps for 12 years, is there a way we could get a certain amount of tickets per established theme camps alloted to be able to know our core workers will be going, like an artist ticket?

All Signs Point to No...

Count how many of these people you have. Say 7. Then have 4 of you (at least) get in the ticket lotteries, and opt for the highest number of tickets. I'm guessing that will be four. So, only two of you have to get drawn in order to get the necessary tickets. Depending on real numbers and other factors.

And, I guess I've got a cold heart. The whole event is improvising under uncertainty. This new process only brings that closer to us.
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Re: lotto and organizing theme camps/long term burners

Postby trilobyte » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:54 am

Procrastination is different than missing out on the drawing. But from a camp organization and management issue, it's still the same concern (and something new for art project & theme camp organizers to consider). You can't lock down or be certain that you can rely upon that individual for something "mission critical" for the camp until they have a ticket.

Once more details become available, you'll have a better idea on just what amount of chance is involved. Guessing based on estimated supply and demand, I'd say that there's a minimum of an 85% chance that someone who wants to go to the event will be able to get a ticket.
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Re: lotto and organizing theme camps/long term burners

Postby portaplaya » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:16 pm

Seems to me that since we sold out last year, everyone is now aware that they have to plan early. I would speculate that BM believes that there will no longer be people holding off until July to buy a ticket.

So if that is the case, in fact if 53,000 people try to buy tickets on opening day, how do you run that system fairly?

As for planning: as long as the lotteries are done by May (one 10K lottery each month for five months), isn't that plenty of time to camp planning? Isn't that still weeks before the theme camp registration cut-off date?
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Re: lotto and organizing theme camps/long term burners

Postby unjonharley » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:32 pm

jkisha wrote:
trilobyte wrote:It may be that before taking dues and accepting someone as a member of the camp, they've got to have a ticket (either in hand, or confirmation from a lottery round). Last year a lot of camps and projects learned some hard lessons because of just that - an essential member hadn't actually gotten their ticket squared away by the end of July, putting the whole thing in jeopardy if they weren't able to sort something out.



Somehow that's different, they had ample opportunity to buy their ticket early and CHOSE not to, and it certainly doesn't garner my sympathy the way someone that missed out on a lotto would.


That would be like checking if every one in the car has a ticket..
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Re: lotto and organizing theme camps/long term burners

Postby Ugly Dougly » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:34 pm

Nipple wrote:If you didn't try to buy tickets the moment they've become available in previous years...

Isn't that what crashed the system last year?
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Re: lotto and organizing theme camps/long term burners

Postby Nipple » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:56 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:
Nipple wrote:If you didn't try to buy tickets the moment they've become available in previous years...

Isn't that what crashed the system last year?


True... but that was a temporary problem. I sat and watched my computer give me all manner of wacky numbers for the ticket queue, and I ended up buying them later that afternoon.

More precisely, my point was that people took gambles in previous years by waiting until late late late in the game. (July 29th is when the tickets sold out. Less than a month before we were in BRC... Yikes!) So... this year they will NOT sell out on the first day. If anything, assuming every drawing is full, they'll never sell out until the last scheduled drawing. So... still a gamble, but in a different direction.
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Re: lotto and organizing theme camps/long term burners

Postby portaplaya » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:04 pm

Nipple wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote:
Nipple wrote:If you didn't try to buy tickets the moment they've become available in previous years...

Isn't that what crashed the system last year?


True... but that was a temporary problem. I sat and watched my computer give me all manner of wacky numbers for the ticket queue, and I ended up buying them later that afternoon.

More precisely, my point was that people took gambles in previous years by waiting until late late late in the game. (July 29th is when the tickets sold out. Less than a month before we were in BRC... Yikes!) So... this year they will NOT sell out on the first day. If anything, assuming every drawing is full, they'll never sell out until the last scheduled drawing. So... still a gamble, but in a different direction.


Not hugely relevant if there is a lottery of 5,000 every week for ten weeks. It's still sold out by the Ides of March.
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Re: lotto and organizing theme camps/long term burners

Postby Nipple » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:12 pm

About 50,000 will enter, about 50,000 will win.
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Re: lotto and organizing theme camps/long term burners

Postby jkisha » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:26 pm

Nipple wrote:About 50,000 will enter, about 50,000 will win.

What the hell kind of lottery is that for christ sakes.
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Re: lotto and organizing theme camps/long term burners

Postby Nipple » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:29 pm

Right? How do we know we're special with those kinds of odds?

By losing, I guess.
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Re: lotto and organizing theme camps/long term burners

Postby Rice » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:37 pm

One that stresses us out for no real reason...
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Re: lotto and organizing theme camps/long term burners

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:23 pm

Face it, buying tickets is stressful now. It's just getting more stressful than it was for me last year when I had a housemate go to Berkeley Hat Company in July to get my ticket.
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