Wouldn't the NFL Draft be a better ticket model?

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Wouldn't the NFL Draft be a better ticket model?

Postby consumption » Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:11 am

I have mixed views about adopting a lottery system for ticket distribution. On one hand dealing with the new reality of ticket scarcity demands new thinking in ticket distribution modalities. On the other, its already a bit of a lottery in the early stages of ticket purchasing whether you get the cheaper tickets or not.

I've always felt that going to a NFL draft model for ticket allocation would be a good one to emulate. Burners would be picked based on the relative merits on how awesome of a Burner they are. And because 50,000 people would need to be drafted even if you are only a little bit of an awesome Burner who occasionally steals a bike or brings a huge sound system out to the Temple at 3am blasting Insane Clown Posse, so long as you are a Burner and not a scalper you'll probably get a ticket. And at the end of the day that's all we can ask.

I've written an article about what it might be like if Burning Man were to adopt the NFL draft as its ticket allocation process. I hope everyone concerned about the new lottery system will read it and consider it in your already intense and lengthy debate.:

Burning Man Adopts NFL Draft for 2012 Ticket Distribution:
http://bit.ly/u6xexp

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Re: Wouldn't Willy Wonka be a better ticket model?

Postby clerkkent » Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:30 am

I think they should just randomly insert gold embossed tickets into chocolate bars. Then we would at least have a chocolate bar.
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Re: Wouldn't the NFL Draft be a better ticket model?

Postby trilobyte » Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:03 am

No, it wouldn't.
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Re: Wouldn't the NFL Draft be a better ticket model?

Postby Antoine » Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:31 am

I agree with Trilobyte, but I'll say why: how do you measure merit? There is no grid to do this, and I have noway to prove that I'm an awesome burner or a shitty one...

Yet I agree that chance is not a good sustem either, which is why I suggested to add another criteria: time. If you commit to stay the week, you should be a preferred ticket buyer. And that could be by letting people in only the first 3 days... But so far nobody like my idea (but only 2 persons answered my thread so far ;-) )

This lottery thing freaks me out..
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Re: Wouldn't the NFL Draft be a better ticket model?

Postby consumption » Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:52 pm

Antoine wrote:I agree with Trilobyte, but I'll say why: how do you measure merit? There is no grid to do this, and I have noway to prove that I'm an awesome burner or a shitty one...


I bet ya we could come up with a grid or formula. I'm not very good at algorithms but something like '# of Burns / bikes stolen x weight of MOOP you are responsible for to the 2nd power...I'm sure someone can come up with something better.

Also - there are 50,000 tickets available - the shittiest Burners just get drafted like #49,858. That number would be available for other Burners to see by having it on the chip Burners will get implanted with at the gate in 2012. So if you are going to hook up with with seemingly pretty cool attractive girl you meet at Opulent Temple, she's been to 3 Burns and yet was drafted #47,496 - you'll know to be wary...

Antoine wrote: Yet I agree that chance is not a good sustem either, which is why I suggested to add another criteria: time. If you commit to stay the week, you should be a preferred ticket buyer. And that could be by letting people in only the first 3 days... But so far nobody like my idea (but only 2 persons answered my thread so far ;-) )

This lottery thing freaks me out..


In all seriousness one of the things I liked about the ticket scarcity in 2011 was you didn't have a lot of frat boy tourists show up on Friday, at least that was my experience. I seemed like almost everyone got there by Wednesday and the Thursday arrival yahoo frat boy tourist quotient was as low as I've ever seen in eight Burns...

Cheers,
Consumption
The NFL Draft and Burning Man tickets - a good choice:
http://bit.ly/u6xexp
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Re: Wouldn't Willy Wonka be a better ticket model?

Postby consumption » Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:45 pm

clerkkent wrote:I think they should just randomly insert gold embossed tickets into chocolate bars. Then we would at least have a chocolate bar.


I would not be opposed to this at all.
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Re: Wouldn't the NFL Draft be a better ticket model?

Postby Rice » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:46 pm

Burners would be picked based on the relative merits on how awesome of a Burner they are. And because 50,000 people would need to be drafted even if you are only a little bit of an awesome Burner who occasionally steals a bike or brings a huge sound system out to the Temple at 3am blasting Insane Clown Posse, so long as you are a Burner and not a scalper you'll probably get a ticket. And at the end of the day that's all we can ask.


So, who decides what makes one person more awesome than another?

Stealing a bike makes one a bit awesome? Hmmm... Does stealing 100 bikes make one an amazing, awesome burner then?? - Stealing a bike make one an asshole? Taking stuff that does not belong to you is theft. A kick in the head and taser to the groin is not nearly enough punishment.... No excuses, it is simple theft.

I think this idea is idiotic. But then, I am more of a burner than you, so my personal opinion is more important than yours. Na, nah, boo boo!!

On a less sarcastic note:

There is nothing indicating that the population cap is a permanent thing. The 2011 cap was due to a temporary growth freeze due to a BLM lease issue...

This change to a lottery system seems like it is taking away my self-reliance, and making it so that some entity is responsible for me getting a ticket. I would prefer to be in line all day and get my tickets, than put my name on some list and hope that I am picked...
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Re: Wouldn't the NFL Draft be a better ticket model?

Postby Arcticcircle » Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:53 pm

stretch80 wrote:
Burners would be picked based on the relative merits on how awesome of a Burner they are. And because 50,000 people would need to be drafted even if you are only a little bit of an awesome Burner who occasionally steals a bike or brings a huge sound system out to the Temple at 3am blasting Insane Clown Posse, so long as you are a Burner and not a scalper you'll probably get a ticket. And at the end of the day that's all we can ask.


So, who decides what makes one person more awesome than another?

Stealing a bike makes one a bit awesome? Hmmm... Does stealing 100 bikes make one an amazing, awesome burner then?? - Stealing a bike make one an asshole? Taking stuff that does not belong to you is theft. A kick in the head and taser to the groin is not nearly enough punishment.... No excuses, it is simple theft.

I think this idea is idiotic. But then, I am more of a burner than you, so my personal opinion is more important than yours. Na, nah, boo boo!!


The original poster didn't mean that bike stealing and ICP makes someone awesome. He was just saying that there are so many tickets, you don't have to be a primo member of Black Rock City who embodies all of the principles to a T. In his "drafting" model, even people who are Burning Man pests (they steal bikes, they bug everyone at the temple) can be included, because of the sheer size of the festival.
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Re: Wouldn't the NFL Draft be a better ticket model?

Postby consumption » Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:31 pm

stretch80 wrote: Burners would be picked based on the relative merits on how awesome of a Burner they are. And because 50,000 people would need to be drafted even if you are only a little bit of an awesome Burner who occasionally steals a bike or brings a huge sound system out to the Temple at 3am blasting Insane Clown Posse, so long as you are a Burner and not a scalper you'll probably get a ticket. And at the end of the day that's all we can ask.


So, who decides what makes one person more awesome than another?


As stated in the article the Board of Directors will decide where in the 50,000 tickets you are drafted. This is the whole reason Burning Man went from a LLC to a non-profit organizational model with an expanded board. Mind you there is a little judgement here but not too much - I don't think Burners are going to judge you too harshly - being drafted #34,000 isn't that much different than being drafted #21,598 the difference is that someone is actually checking you out to make sure you are a Burner of some sort.

Stealing a bike makes one a bit awesome? Hmmm... Does stealing 100 bikes make one an amazing, awesome burner then?? - Stealing a bike make one an asshole? Taking stuff that does not belong to you is theft. A kick in the head and taser to the groin is not nearly enough punishment.... No excuses, it is simple theft.


ArticCircle covers this below - bike stealing is not good. Insane Clown Posse a thousand times worse. I've only done it once in 8 Burns, (steal a bike, not ICP) and the bike had been sitting in the same place in our Village Parking Lot for three days and two of my bikes had ben taken - I made sure to take the stolen bike and dispose of it on the side of the 447 Hwy back to Reno rather than Mooping it on playa. LNT. But I digress.

I think this idea is idiotic. But then, I am more of a burner than you, so my personal opinion is more important than yours. Na, nah, boo boo!!


You will only be a better Burner than me if you are drafted before me. if that happens I'll concede the point.

On a less sarcastic note:

There is nothing indicating that the population cap is a permanent thing. The 2011 cap was due to a temporary growth freeze due to a BLM lease issue...

This change to a lottery system seems like it is taking away my self-reliance, and making it so that some entity is responsible for me getting a ticket. I would prefer to be in line all day and get my tickets, than put my name on some list and hope that I am picked...


We don't even know where the Burn will be held this year. Also - in the past let me clarify your thoughts - you only had the illusion of self-reliance in the past. The lottery is for all its faults is more in line with your higher power. You only have the power to find and attend Burning Man with His help. May you find him now.

Toodles,
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Re: Wouldn't the NFL Draft be a better ticket model?

Postby unjonharley » Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:49 pm

consumption wrote:
We don't even know where the Burn will be held this year. Also - in the past let me clarify your thoughts - you only had the illusion of self-reliance in the past. The lottery is for all its faults is more in line with your higher power. You only have the power to find and attend Burning Man with His help. May you find him now.

Toodles,
Consumption


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Re: Wouldn't the NFL Draft be a better ticket model?

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:08 pm

Okay, I do my best to ignore every thing about football, and after 40some years, I'm good at it.

This is brilliant. Thank you, op, for putting this in my way.
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Re: Wouldn't the NFL Draft be a better ticket model?

Postby consumption » Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:45 am

unjonharley wrote:
consumption wrote:
We don't even know where the Burn will be held this year. Also - in the past let me clarify your thoughts - you only had the illusion of self-reliance in the past. The lottery is for all its faults is more in line with your higher power. You only have the power to find and attend Burning Man with His help. May you find him now.

Toodles,
Consumption


Boy you been to a lot of meetings....


:)
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Re: Wouldn't the NFL Draft be a better ticket model?

Postby MyDearFriend » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:21 am

Oh man Consumption I love this:

4. After the #1 Burner Draft Picks are paraded in the front of the media, the Board of Directors will be locked in a conference room at the Grand Sierra Resort for no less than one month. The remaining 49,883 Burners will be drafted based on a combination of the rules of proportional representation used to elect members of the Israeli Knesset and the card-based role playing game Magic: The Gathering.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm sure that's exactly how it will go down. Thanks for the heads-up!
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Re: Wouldn't the NFL Draft be a better ticket model?

Postby Rice » Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:45 am

consumption wrote:You will only be a better Burner than me if you are drafted before me. if that happens I'll concede the point.

On a less sarcastic note:

There is nothing indicating that the population cap is a permanent thing. The 2011 cap was due to a temporary growth freeze due to a BLM lease issue...

This change to a lottery system seems like it is taking away my self-reliance, and making it so that some entity is responsible for me getting a ticket. I would prefer to be in line all day and get my tickets, than put my name on some list and hope that I am picked...


We don't even know where the Burn will be held this year. Also - in the past let me clarify your thoughts - you only had the illusion of self-reliance in the past. The lottery is for all its faults is more in line with your higher power. You only have the power to find and attend Burning Man with His help. May you find him now.

Toodles,
Consumption


To me the location of Burning Man is not exactly relevant. When I drive, I travel for 3 days just to get there, so it doesn't matter. We will find out soon enough.

Ok, this whole idea of anyone being a better or more deserving burner than someone else is total bullshit. I am pretty sure my burning man experience is much different than yours. The way that I participate before, during and after burning man is mine, and mine alone. I give what I do to the community. Getting wacked up on E and dancing for 3 days is in my opinion, not contributing to BRC in any way. Again, that is MY opinion. I am not saying it is wrong, or less Burnerererer (whatever)...

So, how exactly is my self-reliance an illusion?? I decide to go to burning man. I wait in virtual line and purchase my tickets with my money. I make arrangements to travel 1600 Miles down to BRC (including getting a passport). I take 3 weeks off work. I go to the event, I participate in my way, I go back to where I live the other 49 weeks of the year. ME, no one else does that. I do.

You only have the power to find and attend Burning Man with His help. May you find him now.

Who the hell is "he/His/him"? Oh, you mean ME? I found me years ago, best thing I ever did. (sometimes my son helps me pack, is that who you mean??)

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Re: Wouldn't the NFL Draft be a better ticket model?

Postby bradtem » Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:45 pm

The truth is that every year BM gets many virgins, and many veterans do not return. The event will not sell out with veterans. Only some fraction of virgins are involved with projects before they hit the playa. So the total of veterans and virgins-with-a-project would not sell out in my estimation, and so no system of evaluating them would be needed.

However, it would still be a huge bureaucracy just to verify status as a veteran, or as a virgin with a project. While BM does have the names and addresses of all who bought tickets in the mail, many people buy more than one ticket so there are tons of veterans not on lists.

Finally, I don't think Burning Man wants to give special status to veterans in any ticket allocation scheme. Part of the ethos of BM is that it is ever-changing. It is not meant to be the same people every year, "newbies not welcome." And while people who build camps and art and etc. are always highly welcome, there is an argument that there might even develop an ethos of "thanks for coming before, but please take a year off as we bring in new blood."

I go to many open events and many by-invitation events. There is definitely a conflict between the two philosophies and no hard conclusion that one is the best. Open events get more riffraff, invitation events sometimes stagnate.
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Re: Wouldn't the NFL Draft be a better ticket model?

Postby consumption » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:34 pm

Thank you very much for your response. I think you make many valid points. It certainly would be hard to judge virgin burners. Perhaps with Burning Man's emphasis on regionals a college or development or farm system for Burners could be developed where people would be drafted based on their 'performance' at Flipside or the Sugar Bowl.

bradtem wrote:The truth is that every year BM gets many virgins, and many veterans do not return. The event will not sell out with veterans. Only some fraction of virgins are involved with projects before they hit the playa. So the total of veterans and virgins-with-a-project would not sell out in my estimation, and so no system of evaluating them would be needed.

However, it would still be a huge bureaucracy just to verify status as a veteran, or as a virgin with a project. While BM does have the names and addresses of all who bought tickets in the mail, many people buy more than one ticket so there are tons of veterans not on lists.

Finally, I don't think Burning Man wants to give special status to veterans in any ticket allocation scheme. Part of the ethos of BM is that it is ever-changing. It is not meant to be the same people every year, "newbies not welcome." And while people who build camps and art and etc. are always highly welcome, there is an argument that there might even develop an ethos of "thanks for coming before, but please take a year off as we bring in new blood."

I go to many open events and many by-invitation events. There is definitely a conflict between the two philosophies and no hard conclusion that one is the best. Open events get more riffraff, invitation events sometimes stagnate.
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