Clumsy ‘solution’ to non existent problem?

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Clumsy ‘solution’ to non existent problem?

Postby clerkkent » Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:12 am

This lottery system is supposedly in response to two core issues:

1) Opening day ticket sale rush crashed the servers: opening day has always been a mad house; it should have been no surprise. If the servers (of the paid ticketing agency) could not handle the rush, one solution would be… wait for it… wait…. GET NEW SERVERS! Another solution? Get a new ticketing agent! Revamping the entire process to accommodate insufficient tools is silly.

2) Ticket Scalping: This has been going on for years, for any event. I would guesstimate that I saw less than 500 tickets being offered at ‘scalped’ prices on eBay, Craigslist and ticket buying sites in 2011. That is 1% of tickets available. The difference in 2011 is that more people *observed* the ticket scalping due to media awareness. Some of the astronomical prices you saw were a result of people maliciously bidding up auction prices to ‘make a statement’, and some of the goofy offers were put out there just to troll for suckers. Once the ticket sellout was reported, I think some “passionate burners”’ saw an opportunity to make a little extra cash by selling their ticket for some mark up, with the assumption that they could backfill their ticket by begging, borrowing or stealing. The ‘professional’ scalpers are not going to be hampered by this lottery system.. in fact their computer farms have an increased chance of getting –more- tickets by taking up more spots in the lottery queue.


An improved process should have included a reexamination of the tiered pricing structure… why do we need so many tiers, if we need tiers at all? The low price tier always sell out quickly (within a day or so), and within weeks, ads are posted along the lines of “buy these tickets, and save some money off the current $280 price”. By establishing below market pricing out the gate, you fostered an environment for profit takers to intervene (yep, capitalism and free markets- like it or not). Instead of having 8,000 tickets at the $210 level, then 8,000 tickets at the $240 level, then 8,000 tickets at the $280 level, combine them all into one $260 bracket with 25,000 tickets. The ORG will still get their start up capital in February, and the hype of opening day sales will be mitigated
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WHy not Non-Transferrable Tickets?

Postby walleroo97 » Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:40 am

From my perspective, scalping was a HUGE problem last yeat. It had an impact on our community that took away from what we felt the BM experience.

We have attended for several years and want to make sure that actual attendees are the ones buying tickets, while allowing for that last minute 'aw crap' that prevents some from being able to attend.

So, since the ticket cap is set by BM, why not turn the attention to the scalping/reselling problem?

It seems that there is plenty of demand for the tickets; at any price level.

What if the tickets were non-transferrrable?

(1) Buy your ticket, show up at the gate with ID and maybe proof of purchase credit card.

(2) BM, in return, could offer a 100% refund (for what you paid) on any ticket up to the week of the event. That ticket then becomes available for resale by BM at a designated site (perhaps the gas station off of i-80 in Wadsworth), local business or e-tail site.

It seems that with the number of 'legitmate' people looking for tickets in the final weeks/months there is no worry of getting rid of any returned tickets. Even so, a returned ticket is likely from a lower price point and markup to current price point should make it profitable to handle the transaction.

It just seems that a simple tweak to make it much more difficult for scaplers to lock up blocks of tickes (through 100's of minions) would keep the playing field level for the rest of us.

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Re: Clumsy ‘solution’ to non existent problem?

Postby unjonharley » Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:47 am

BEAT THAT DEAD HORSE
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Re: Clumsy ‘solution’ to non existent problem?

Postby clerkkent » Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:06 pm

The 'return your tickets the ORG' system punishes more people than scalpers it deters. If I buy two tickets and plan to gift the second one as a surprise to a friend in July how do I get their name on the ticket? If our camp sits on an extra ticket in case we get a veteran camp member who finally got confirmation (in early August) that they get time off from work so they can go, then we transfer the ticket to their name.. how do we do that?
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Re: Clumsy ‘solution’ to non existent problem?

Postby Rice » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:16 pm

People complain about the wait for getting into BRC with the standard ticket system... Anything that involves needing ID, or proof of purchase will double the amount of time that people take to be processed through the gate.
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Re: Clumsy ‘solution’ to non existent problem?

Postby CapnJoe45 » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:29 pm

If you don't get a ticket because of the lottery, you won't have to worry!!!!
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Re: Clumsy ‘solution’ to non existent problem?

Postby unjonharley » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:47 pm

stretch80 wrote:People complain about the wait for getting into BRC with the standard ticket system... Anything that involves needing ID, or proof of purchase will double the amount of time that people take to be processed through the gate.


WHAT?? You have a ticket at the gate or you don't get in..

Tickets will be mailed out in late summer.
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Re: Clumsy ‘solution’ to non existent problem?

Postby Rice » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:54 pm

unjonharley wrote:
stretch80 wrote:People complain about the wait for getting into BRC with the standard ticket system... Anything that involves needing ID, or proof of purchase will double the amount of time that people take to be processed through the gate.


WHAT?? You have a ticket at the gate or you don't get in..

Tickets will be mailed out in late summer.


I was replying to the suggestion that people have to show ID at some time during the purchase/ gate entry process. (I am not sure how I came across otherwise... ??)

Anyhoo:

No ticket, no entry into BRC. That is how I understand it to work. Nothing has changed that way!!!

As long as they are mailed early enough to actually arrive in time, that works as well. (although I prefer Will-call)

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Re: Clumsy ‘solution’ to non existent problem?

Postby unjonharley » Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:00 pm

stretch80 wrote: (although I prefer Will-call)

Rice



50 000 hit will call in one day????
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Re: Clumsy ‘solution’ to non existent problem?

Postby Savior69 » Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:45 pm

clerkkent wrote:Instead of having 8,000 tickets at the $210 level, then 8,000 tickets at the $240 level, then 8,000 tickets at the $280 level, combine them all into one $260 bracket with 25,000 tickets. The ORG will still get their start up capital in February, and the hype of opening day sales will be mitigated


This is a smart idea. I'm really surprised some solution like this wasn't tried first. With that said, I, of course, will be rolling the dice. Let the games begin!
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Re: Clumsy ‘solution’ to non existent problem?

Postby Foxfur » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:56 pm

In Japan, they'd sell them in vending machines.
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Re: Clumsy ‘solution’ to non existent problem?

Postby Shadowcasting » Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:43 pm

[quote="clerkkent"]By establishing below market pricing out the gate, you fostered an environment for profit takers to intervene (yep, capitalism and free markets- like it or not). Instead of having 8,000 tickets at the $210 level, then 8,000 tickets at the $240 level, then 8,000 tickets at the $280 level, combine them all into one $260 bracket with 25,000 tickets. The ORG will still get their start up capital in February, and the hype of opening day sales will be mitigated[/quote]

Now that's just crazy talk! Such a simple, fair, easy-to-impliment solution couldn't possibly work!!
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Re: Clumsy ‘solution’ to non existent problem?

Postby Rice » Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:56 pm

unjonharley wrote:
stretch80 wrote: (although I prefer Will-call)

Rice



50 000 hit will call in one day????



Yah, sure.... why not.
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Re: WHy not Non-Transferrable Tickets?

Postby jkisha » Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:39 pm

Scalping was not a problem.

walleroo97 wrote:From my perspective, scalping was a HUGE problem last yeat. It had an impact on our community that took away from what we felt the BM experience.

We have attended for several years and want to make sure that actual attendees are the ones buying tickets, while allowing for that last minute 'aw crap' that prevents some from being able to attend.

So, since the ticket cap is set by BM, why not turn the attention to the scalping/reselling problem?

It seems that there is plenty of demand for the tickets; at any price level.

What if the tickets were non-transferrrable?

(1) Buy your ticket, show up at the gate with ID and maybe proof of purchase credit card.

(2) BM, in return, could offer a 100% refund (for what you paid) on any ticket up to the week of the event. That ticket then becomes available for resale by BM at a designated site (perhaps the gas station off of i-80 in Wadsworth), local business or e-tail site.

It seems that with the number of 'legitmate' people looking for tickets in the final weeks/months there is no worry of getting rid of any returned tickets. Even so, a returned ticket is likely from a lower price point and markup to current price point should make it profitable to handle the transaction.

It just seems that a simple tweak to make it much more difficult for scaplers to lock up blocks of tickes (through 100's of minions) would keep the playing field level for the rest of us.

cheers.
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Re: Clumsy ‘solution’ to non existent problem?

Postby jkisha » Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:40 pm

Foxfur wrote:In Japan, they'd sell them in vending machines.
We can learn a lot from the Japanese.

But in America somebody would end up stealing the whole machine.
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Re: Clumsy ‘solution’ to non existent problem?

Postby lemur » Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:46 pm

Foxfur wrote:We can learn a lot from the Japanese.



there are some things i hope to NEVER learn from the japanese.....


dealing with being nuked is but one!
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Re: Clumsy ‘solution’ to non existent problem?

Postby jkisha » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:34 am

Savior69 wrote:
clerkkent wrote:Instead of having 8,000 tickets at the $210 level, then 8,000 tickets at the $240 level, then 8,000 tickets at the $280 level, combine them all into one $260 bracket with 25,000 tickets. The ORG will still get their start up capital in February, and the hype of opening day sales will be mitigated


This is a smart idea. I'm really surprised some solution like this wasn't tried first. With that said, I, of course, will be rolling the dice. Let the games begin!

Well, we'll all be rolling the dice; what other choice do we have? We just won't like it. OCCUPY BRC
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Re: Clumsy ‘solution’ to non existent problem?

Postby portaplaya » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:11 pm

I disagree with the first post. The JRS newsletter said that the two problems they needed to be addressed were:

"2011 provided two compelling reasons to change how tickets are sold: a challenging ticket launch day, and then, our first-ever sold-out event. "

Dealing with a sold-out event is not the same with dealing with scalpers. Dealing with a sold-out event means that the org needs to find a fair mechanism that distributes tickets in an impartial manner.

While the scalping of tickets did raise some issues, there were no measurable indicators that this happened with a significant number of tickets. Perhaps people are getting into a mindset for state-run lotteries where only one person in a million wins. A process where there are 50,000 winners from 58,000 participants is still a lottery, although in this case your odds of winning are quite high.
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Re: Clumsy ‘solution’ to non existent problem?

Postby remi » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:15 pm

lemur wrote:
Foxfur wrote:We can learn a lot from the Japanese.



there are some things i hope to NEVER learn from the japanese.....


dealing with being nuked is but one!


Can you at least admit that nuclear explosions are awesome?

http://www.snotr.com/video/3476/Colbert ... _explosion
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Re: Clumsy ‘solution’ to non existent problem?

Postby lemur » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:22 pm

id pay money to see an atmospheric nuclear explosion..


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Re: Clumsy ‘solution’ to non existent problem?

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:17 pm

It would be the last thing you ever saw.
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Re: Clumsy ‘solution’ to non existent problem?

Postby clerkkent » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:59 pm

Well, they consolidated some brackets:

- $240: 10,000 tickets
- $320: 15,000 tickets
- $390: 15,000 tickets
- $390: 10,000 tickets


But why not consolidate them down to
- $300: 25,000 tickets
- $375: 25,000 tickets
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Re: Clumsy ‘solution’ to non existent problem?

Postby Eric » Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:17 pm

clerkkent wrote:Well, they consolidated some brackets:

- $240: 10,000 tickets
- $320: 15,000 tickets
- $390: 15,000 tickets
- $390: 10,000 tickets


But why not consolidate them down to
- $300: 25,000 tickets
- $375: 25,000 tickets


Holy Christ- there's already some people screaming over the prices, can you imagine how many people would freak out if the $240 level disappeared?
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Re: Clumsy ‘solution’ to non existent problem?

Postby trilobyte » Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:26 pm

People cry about the Org gouging, but your proposal would jack prices further to the tune of something like $3.8m. Ouch. It may be possible that large scale event production is harder than it looks.
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