Reducing the line to get in the gate

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby Rice » Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:58 pm

bradtem wrote:I was away for the weekend, having a life, but the truth is there's little productive to be gained in this forum, or any forum where people devolve to just criticising personalities rather than discussing the ideas. The folks who actually have worked gate provided useful info. The amount of negativity from a few others is a shame; folks with thinner skins and less experience are surely being driven away by it elsewhere on eplaya, whether they have contributions to make or not. Fortunately most real burners in real life don't act that way.


I do not deny being a jerk at times.

I do know a bit about how gate works, and why some stuff happens. I have seen the gate and exodus lines from a perimeter perspective.

You give the participants more credit than they have earned.

I disagree with some of your ideas. I believe the way it is will refute some other of your ideas. There are a few, that I like.

Getting involved in the actual "yay - we are at Burning Man" operations of the gate will refine some of your ideas.
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby bradtem » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:33 pm

stretch80 wrote:
bradtem wrote:I was away for the weekend, having a life, but the truth is there's little productive to be gained in this forum, or any forum where people devolve to just criticising personalities rather than discussing the ideas. The folks who actually have worked gate provided useful info. The amount of negativity from a few others is a shame; folks with thinner skins and less experience are surely being driven away by it elsewhere on eplaya, whether they have contributions to make or not. Fortunately most real burners in real life don't act that way.


I do not deny being a jerk at times.

I do know a bit about how gate works, and why some stuff happens. I have seen the gate and exodus lines from a perimeter perspective.

You give the participants more credit than they have earned.

I disagree with some of your ideas. I believe the way it is will refute some other of your ideas. There are a few, that I like.

Getting involved in the actual "yay - we are at Burning Man" operations of the gate will refine some of your ideas.


Of course it would. Even discussing with people who have actually worked gate (few as they have been in the thread) has modified things. That's the goal -- to propose, to learn, to refine. Not to engage in flamewars with folks being jerks (and you were hardly the worst of them.) But to me the fact that people will act bizarrely because they are finally at burning man after a long quest of prep and travel, more bizarrely than you might imagine -- that isn't an insurmountable wall. That's just another part of the puzzle, a challenge to be solved, not a reason to throw up your hands and say "it can never be improved." It's my normal way of operating to think outside the box; this does not guarantee success by any measure, in fact it often fails. But it is also often the only thing that succeeds. I happen to make a living at it.

Time on the playa is precious to me and to most others. To get 20,000 people a few extra hours each on the playa would be a great thing, and something worthy of effort and spending money.
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby lemur » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:39 pm

bradtem wrote:...the truth is there's little productive to be gained in this forum, or any forum where people devolve to just criticising personalities rather than discussing the ideas..


the way i saw the progression of the thread was that at first people were talking about ideas..

then, after it became clear that you were gonna blabber on no matter how the gate crew and others responded people started to focus on you ...because there was a lot of you to read ..

i think after a few pages people just got tired of it....
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby Clar-i-ty » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:50 pm

bradtem wrote:I was away for the weekend, having a life, but the truth is there's little productive to be gained in this forum, or any forum where people devolve to just criticising personalities rather than discussing the ideas. The folks who actually have worked gate provided useful info. The amount of negativity from a few others is a shame; folks with thinner skins and less experience are surely being driven away by it elsewhere on eplaya, whether they have contributions to make or not. Fortunately most real burners in real life don't act that way.


First, you have committed a total of 13,729 words, not including quotes, to this subject. That's enough to fill 23+ pages single spaced. For that reason alone, I'm glad to hear you get out of the house to "have a life."

Next, you are only interested in your own ideas and pontification. It seems to you, discussion does not include experienced retorts, debate and objection from more than a few whom I know to be on the Gate crew. Not all of them openly identify themselves.

Finally, it's clear that you expected us to say,"OMG you're right! Silly Gate Crew who must just love doing it wrong every year. We are so indebted to you Bradtem! What did we ever do without you!"

Instead you got, "Thanks for the input, but these are the reasons it won't or doesn't work." That and what I feel is a healthy amount of mockery for your expansive superfluous explanations that did more to amuse us than to convince us.

Consider what your response would be to someone who comes into your dojo and says, "I've never done what you do, but I know what you're doing wrong, and if you do what I say you can do it better." The intended offer to help would no doubt be met with no fewer than 13,729 words in response.

If you really want to make a difference, get genuine experience and get involved.
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby lemur » Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:49 pm

the last time i did a count of the words we were at around 8000...

i was glad to see im not the only one who was wondering..


it takes a bit of time to copy/paste it all into a document for counting..
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby Clar-i-ty » Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:43 pm

Yeah, I have some free time on my hands. And since I write for a living, my curiosity got the best of me. Sometimes it pays to do mundane research to make a point.

:D
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby lemur » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:09 am

EPIC BUMP.
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby olskoo » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:44 am

There are so many more motorhomes and buses and trailers than when I first came in 2003. Vehicle search takes longer for these biggies than for pickups and cars. How about assigning a few lanes on the right for the larger vehicles and leave the rest for smaller ones. It might even encourage a return to tent camping and discourage the behemoths that often circle the wagons and face away from the rest of the neighborhood.
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:47 am

*groan*
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby burner von braun » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:53 am

...I'm moving this over to the 'TOTALLY EVIL' thread because it's a better fit..
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby Eric » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:27 pm

It would be more of the "beaten to death with a stick" thread.

I would say the same thing to olskoo that I say to everyone who has a "new idea" about how Gate should work - volunteer for Gate. Work out there, find out how it flows for the people who have to do the work, not just the people in their vehicles, put in the hours and show the people at BMHQ who design the entry why your idea is better than the ones they themselves come up with after putting in long hours out in the hot sun trying to increase efficiency.
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:02 pm

I just want a separate line for those cars and rvs carrying drugs, so that I can laugh at them all when the DEA stops the whole line and has the dogs go by them all.
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby Sunbeam56 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:40 pm

Pfffttt - don't they know the drugs arrive by plane? Duh!
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby Wrath » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:01 pm

BBadger wrote:STAY HOME. This isn't an egg hunt in kindergarten where every kid gets the same share of eggs no matter how dimwitted the kid is.

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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby BBadger » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:45 pm

olskoo wrote:There are so many more motorhomes and buses and trailers than when I first came in 2003. Vehicle search takes longer for these biggies than for pickups and cars. How about assigning a few lanes on the right for the larger vehicles and leave the rest for smaller ones. It might even encourage a return to tent camping and discourage the behemoths that often circle the wagons and face away from the rest of the neighborhood.


What a waste of a first post.
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:12 pm

And after waiting a year, too!
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby mdmf007 » Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:16 pm

Very beaten to death indeed Eric - Anyone who has been to BMAN more than once knows the problem is bandwidth - there are only so many ways to safely move vehicles into BRC in such a time. A stampede is not safe by any means. I agree its not a perfect system, but at the same time its working, traffic drops off like a rock at a certain point. As suggested earlier - volunteer come in on Sat or Sunday with your mates and set up camp. Obviously this does not work for everyone or we just moved the problem back on the calendar. Also - inspections and head counts are necessary so the BLM can keep track of population as well as apply the correct fees.

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