Respect: The Bad Parts of 2011

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Re: Respect: The Bad Parts of 2011

Postby Savannah » Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:42 pm

Milayna wrote:I'm planning on going solo in 2012, and while I assume this sorta stuff can happen on the playa, just like any other city, it would be nice to try to avoid it as much as possible. You say there was an area where most of this seemed to happen? Could you specify?

Also, I will say that I'm quick to scream if I feel threatened, so if any guy tries to grope me I won't hesitate to sound off like a siren. It sounds like there are many nice burner gents willing to help a girl out :)


While Black Rock City is special, it is still a real city, and has its' share of knobs. I find there to be far fewer than in the default world, because a lot of idiots are weeded out by the harsh conditions, and all the prep it takes to get out there. So the jerks stick out, if only because most people are pretty neat there. But one should not expect a utopia. Dosings are rare, but you hear of them happening. An unexpected pat on the ass is a peril of the Meet 'n Greet. One should expect nothing but dust and extremes of temperature, and prepare for everything.

The busy areas at night (the Esplanade, large sound camps, 2 and 10 o'clock on the map) can have a high population density at night due to raves, and lots of the attendees are chemically altered at that time in particular. The 9 o'clock side of the city is referred to as "the Red Light District" . . . although I honestly had to be told the difference several years in. (I didn't see a difference between the two sides, but part of that is that I'm comfortable with saucy camps and gay clubs, etc.) I love the 9 o'clock side. It's warm, and feels like home. Those who love the 3 o'clock side are equally passionate. :)

I admit that I've never seen the rare Burner children treated anything less than wonderfully . . . and have yet to accidentally wander into an orgy in seven years (but I suppose there's always hope).
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Re: Respect: The Bad Parts of 2011

Postby Milayna » Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:08 pm

Thanks Savannah :) The gay orgy definitely didn't bother me in the least, it was more the safety issues she pointed out like being dosed, or truly sexually harassed that concerned me. I'm a touchy person, and a solid ass-pat among friends is A-ok in my book :D
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Re: Respect: The Bad Parts of 2011

Postby Sola Gangsta » Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:20 pm

The only negative thing I experienced was going over to Jazz camp by 7:30 and A. Someone else suggested I sit in or play a solo set so I went over and introduced myself to the guy managing the stage. He asked what I had and I said a Gibson L4 and he said (incredulously) "you brought a Gibson L4 to the playa?" and then he said "show me", so I did and he asked to play it and I let him for a few minutes. Many advised me against bringing it but I don't really have any beaters, saying to watch out for it being stolen, etc... (I'm not going to explain why I don't have to worry about this).

Anyway then he said you can play only if it's originals and not covers. Because what I do is improvisations, it is really in between covers and originals. He grudgingly said OK, but took so long to wait for the stage that it was clear that he meant no. So after waiting, I left. I checked the Moop map and there is a giant red spot where they camped. Something about the spirit of what they were about just wasn't right.

Later on, several over at 2:30 and H where I was camped said that it was because they suspected that "I was better". I was doing some of Metheny's stuff mixed with Carly Simon and some oldies like "Cherish" at camp and at the temple before sunset the night the man burned. The jealousy factor for some reason is really strong in the music field and I had the same problems back in the 80's and 90's. The crowd that gathered at the temple on burn night was great though and it was one of the most memorable events of my life!
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Re: Respect: The Bad Parts of 2011

Postby jkisha » Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:45 pm

Savannah wrote:
Milayna wrote:I'm planning on going solo in 2012, and while I assume this sorta stuff can happen on the playa, just like any other city, it would be nice to try to avoid it as much as possible. You say there was an area where most of this seemed to happen? Could you specify?

Also, I will say that I'm quick to scream if I feel threatened, so if any guy tries to grope me I won't hesitate to sound off like a siren. It sounds like there are many nice burner gents willing to help a girl out :)


While Black Rock City is special, it is still a real city, and has its' share of knobs. I find there to be far fewer than in the default world, because a lot of idiots are weeded out by the harsh conditions, and all the prep it takes to get out there. So the jerks stick out, if only because most people are pretty neat there. But one should not expect a utopia. Dosings are rare, but you hear of them happening. An unexpected pat on the ass is a peril of the Meet 'n Greet. One should expect nothing but dust and extremes of temperature, and prepare for everything.

The busy areas at night (the Esplanade, large sound camps, 2 and 10 o'clock on the map) can have a high population density at night due to raves, and lots of the attendees are chemically altered at that time in particular. The 9 o'clock side of the city is referred to as "the Red Light District" . . . although I honestly had to be told the difference several years in. (I didn't see a difference between the two sides, but part of that is that I'm comfortable with saucy camps and gay clubs, etc.) I love the 9 o'clock side. It's warm, and feels like home. Those who love the 3 o'clock side are equally passionate. :)

I admit that I've never seen the rare Burner children treated anything less than wonderfully . . . and have yet to accidentally wander into an orgy in seven years (but I suppose there's always hope).

Damn, missed that too! :x :shock:
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Re: Respect: The Bad Parts of 2011

Postby Dr. Pyro » Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:49 am

I'm beginning to wonder if you were even at the Meet & Greet.
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Re: Respect: The Bad Parts of 2011

Postby ygmir » Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:57 am

I know he was there, Doc. The IQ of the whole place goes up when JK appears.
I missed pretty much all the food and treats, too.
I did get a nice booby shot of slivovice, though.....yummy.... and absinthe.....yummy, as well ( IIRC).....well, and other treats, but not from the table.
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Re: Respect: The Bad Parts of 2011

Postby jkisha » Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:03 am

I did get the booby shot! :D
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Re: Respect: The Bad Parts of 2011

Postby International Incident » Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:28 pm

It was all bloody fantastic! 2011 I mean.
The bits that did not totally rock my world are all forgotten now - and anyway those bits just added to the overall experience.
I couldn't comment about the second part of the Meet and Greet as I was excessively drunk. :oops:
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Re: Respect: The Bad Parts of 2011

Postby tamarakay » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:05 pm

Ken and I were not aware of orgy tents either. JK pointed a few out and gently told us we might want to avoid those. :oops:

s s sara I wondered and worried about the young ladies I saw about on their own. I chatted with a couple of them at various places and several had the same experience as you with the groping and unwanted attention. We even "protected" one by staying in between her and one very drunk aggressive male and then escorted her safely away. If you were my daughter I would advise against going it alone. That said, I chatted with a couple other single young women who (to that point anyway) had no issues. However, it only takes one out of control asshat to hurt you.

I did witness a group of people on an art car shouting harassing vulgar things at passersby, and a group of those passersby did include kids. Two idiots on the car did shout some incredibly inappropriate comments directly at the children, but people on the car shut them down quickly and harshly. That did seem to tone down the attitude of the rest of the car riders. Sometimes a group mentality takes over in a bad way, and sometimes it can self correct. Definitely if it had not self corrected the nearest ranger would have been notified.

I've been doing the sober thing since 2/3/88. Generally the younger the person was that I said No I don't drink too, the more incredulous they were. One youngster even asked me "that the hell are you doing here if you don't get high?" I replied, burning. He just gave me a blank look. I told him one day when he grew up he might get it.
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Re: Respect: The Bad Parts of 2011

Postby tamarakay » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:06 pm

Oh, and, yes. That was me grabbing ass at the meet and greet. Sorry I missed you JK, I'll do better next year.
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Re: Respect: The Bad Parts of 2011

Postby Savannah » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:10 pm

tamarakay wrote:Oh, and, yes. That was me grabbing ass at the meet and greet. Sorry I missed you JK, I'll do better next year.


I think there were multiple games of grab-ass going on, then. :lol:
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Re: Respect: The Bad Parts of 2011

Postby FIGJAM » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:19 pm

Savannah wrote:
tamarakay wrote:Oh, and, yes. That was me grabbing ass at the meet and greet. Sorry I missed you JK, I'll do better next year.


I think there were multiple games of grab-ass going on, then. :lol:


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Re: Respect: The Bad Parts of 2011

Postby tamarakay » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:38 pm

<adding jigjam to list>
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Re: Respect: The Bad Parts of 2011

Postby LostinReno » Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:14 pm

tamarakay wrote:No I don't drink too, the more incredulous they were. One youngster even asked me "that the hell are you doing here if you don't get high?" I replied, burning. He just gave me a blank look. I told him one day when he grew up he might get it.


Right??? OMG, what is up with this?? I drink but no longer partake in any illeagals, as I can get hurt at my job and will lose said job if I test positive (I work with lots of electricity and heavy stuff). I'm not a cop. I'm not related to any cops. I don't even know any cops. Yet many people think I'm some sort of LEO because I don't partake. I actually had someone get out-right pissed off at me because I wouldn't do whippits with them. I know nitrous is more or less legal, but all it does to me is make me dizzy. I don't like to be dizzy, hence, I don't see the point. It just seems that a lot of people (if not the majority) think you have to be wasted out there to have a good time. I generally have more fun on the nights I'm not drinking...well there was that one night on Dogfish..but anyways :lol:
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Re: Respect: The Bad Parts of 2011

Postby Lord Of Ruin » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:04 pm

S-s-sara wrote:
1. Three people in my camp got slipped drugs the first day. Now, while now none of them mind getting fucked up(and I don't mind either) no one likes getting roofied or slipped ketamine.


Hmmm. Dosing definately happens. It's generally not as widespread as people think...and it's pretty rare when three people from the same camp all got unintentionally dosed at once. There's more to the story there...someone targeted you guys (because you're virgins, young, loud, cute,etc) to see what would happen. This is by far the exception. Most all dosings, once they are actually verified (and a huge proportion of stories about "dosings" are actually more of the "man, I got fucked up really quick...I must have been dosed!") are either because someone thought they could get in someone's pants, or they somehow know the person (or perceive they do) and think it'd be cool to see their reaction. This is wrong, but it's what those doofus' think.

In any case it's important to take reasonable care, and have a simple plan for if someone does get a suspected dosing: i.e. hydrate with liquids, visit ESD (you will NOT get in trouble for "taking drugs" by going to ESD!) and have them give your campmates guidelines for caring for you and ride it out. In the huge majority of times you're gonna be fine in a few hours.

S-s-sara wrote:2. Vulgar and dirty language towards children. Look, when you're fucked up no one gives a shit if you yell at scream and speak your mind; its Burning Man after all. But I saw way to many people yell vulgarities and sexual things toward children -young children- and their parents. Its fine to want to express yourself, but these people looked visibly uncomfortable and frankly, I was too. Self expression becomes unacceptable when it infringes upon another persons right to feel safe.


Well, I wasn't there, of course but I will say that in my experience, most people do treat kids really well. There are however a big swath of people that think kids have no place at Burning Man (disclosure: I'm one of them, although not adamant about it). Those people are probably going to be really open and free with their language and dress, and feel that care for the kid seeing or hearing something is on the parent. Now if you're talking that some people were actively talking dirty TO children....ummm...ick....[/quote]

S-s-sara wrote:3. Inappropriate touching. Like I said. This was probably because I am a girl and was wandering around solo most of the time but there were a few times I was approached by people who just started aggressively grabbing onto me and tried to "adjust" my clothes.


Wow...this is a tough one. I'm not a female, so I don't have that perspective. But BM as a whole is a very, very sexualized place in many instances. Often sensual and other physical things can seem very sexual to an virgin burner, but in hindsight weren't anything of the case. But suffice to say, if you don't want someone's hands on your body, no means no. I've found the most successful single women at the Burn have mastered the art of playful deflection pretty well. Don't count on anyone to not be more aggressive verbally, more direct, etc. To many, the venue of BM makes people feel like they can be more explicit and direct than they would be in default. There is lots of physical contact that happens much, much sooner than would be acceptable in the default world.

As others have said there are a few good ways to combat this while keeping your burn fun and carefree; hang out/roam with a friend. You're safe to walk around the city without them, but it IS a city of 50k people now. Not all share the burner ethos. Be explicit and direct when you are uncomfortable. If you can do this in a way that is artful (often this happens among "friends" or people that are known and people won't speak up because they don't want to be singled out), but if you feel threatened, raise your voice. Specifically call for another burner to help. Call for a Ranger or go seek them out at a Ranger outpost. Finally, Rangers can help you find an LEO if you need one.

S-s-sara wrote:4. Burning man is an overwhelmingly stimulating event. I was constantly on sensory overload and as a result I decided to go the week mostly sober. And I loved it that way! I went nuts a few times but I mostly made my experience as chill as possible. There is nothing wrong with that. But never have I felt ashamed for not mixing several different drugs with way to much alcohol until the Burn. If people want to stay sober let them and don't give them shit for twenty minutes about it. I didn't mind it the first few days but after a while I got the feeling that most people felt like I was doing something wrong by not going nuts 24/7.


As others have said, this is just a bunch of immature douches saying this stuff. Not an excuse, but a point of understanding: I have a good friend that does most activities with our circle of friends. He does not drink at all, ever. The times when people have done this, it's because they perceive his behavior is markedly different than those of the revelers. I.e. people want you to join the party because of how you're acting or how they think you will act once they are drunk and you're not. People I know that don't drink but remain outgoing, engaging, fun, etc. tend to not get even noticed. YMMV and that may or may not help in how to address it.


S-s-sara wrote:6. To the group of ladies who wanted "didn't want to fuck us up [because] this is Burning Man [and] I am supposed to be nice". Yeah I really felt the love when you physically threw my friends and I away from your art car. I am so terribly sorry that I brushed up against it. If you want something to stay pretty, don't bring it to the playa. If it gets messed up don't shove people into other people/ moving crowds out of anger.


Hey, art cars are hard work and their owners go through the burn and it sounds like you caught one on a bad day. Shrug it off with a smile, say sorry and simply move on.

S-s-sara wrote:5. Finally, this one is not so much bad as pretty hilarious. I feel like the giant orgy tents should be labeled a bit better. I walked in on two gay orgies, one I thought was a bar, the other was labeled as a maze. I have no problem with sexuality , please don't misunderstand, I just felt bad for making the two guys giving each other head uncomfortable. :P


Sounds like this worked out just fine. No need for a remedy.
S-s-sara wrote:... I had a lot of good experiences too I just think i underestimated the insanity of it all.


I think that last line really sums it up!

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Re: Respect: The Bad Parts of 2011

Postby 48_love » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:56 pm

It doesn't matter how rare ... dosing someone without their knowledge or consent is just plain wrong. Timothy Leary was quite clear about this with his first of Two Commandements of the Neurologial Age, lol.

But seriously, how would ANYONE think that is a good idea. That boggles.
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Re: Respect: The Bad Parts of 2011

Postby lucky420 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:16 pm

I don't understand the act/why of dosing someone without their knowledge. If you ask the person if they want some and they say "no" well then it's just that much more for me, er them I mean. :wink:
Oh my god, it's HUGE!
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Re: Respect: The Bad Parts of 2011

Postby Lord Of Ruin » Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:12 pm

48_love wrote:It doesn't matter how rare ... dosing someone without their knowledge or consent is just plain wrong. Timothy Leary was quite clear about this with his first of Two Commandements of the Neurologial Age, lol.

But seriously, how would ANYONE think that is a good idea. That boggles.


My point wasn't to somehow condone it. But there are a lot of people that give into hyperbole and spread th word that BM is one huge dosefest. It's not.

It's a relatively minor danger that comes with the territory. It's pretty easy to guard against, and pretty easy to be prepared to react to if it somehow does happen.

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Re: Respect: The Bad Parts of 2011

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:47 pm

Once again the basic precautions are a cup with lid and handle (and watch what gets poured into it) and stopping people before they spray you with water.
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