exodus

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Re: exodus

Postby bradtem » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:00 pm

One reason I have raised my concern is that I talked to a lot of people on the playa this year who left before the burns -- before the burning of the Man even, not just before the temple burn, out of concern over Exodus. And the concern was well placed this year. As noted I did the early morning Monday strategy, which used to work well, and now no longer works. People who left mid-day Monday knew it would be slow, and got even slower but at least got something roughly in line with expectations.

But I think you want to avoid a situation where the old-timers are leaving before the Man burns, or everybody says there is little option but to stay to Tuesday as that is not even an option for some.

In fact, after they moved the Man to Saturday night, we started seeing a situation where even those who could happily stay to Monday or Tuesday started at least packing up camp on Sunday because there just wasn't much "Burning Man" left to do starting that day. Sunday is a day of seriously reduced activity. If you go to visit your friends' camps you find they are striking their camp and art more and you ask yourself whether the demands of the outside world exceed what you would get from being there Monday. And so you think you might leave even earlier. This is different from what might have been hoped for, that only those who were going to LA or other long-drive destinations would feel the push to pack up and leave Sunday, while everybody else would hang around and the event would still be going on even to Monday.

I suppose this cuts down on weekenders, since arriving Friday night would get you a very short Burning Man. And I've heard it espoused that if you only have a few days free time, you are better to do Mon-Thursday than Friday-Monday even though the intensity his higher Friday. Still, for virgins I can't imagine them not seeing the Man himself burn.

Yes, the delays of gate and exodus do scare away people, and in some sense, that has a positive value in keeping the city small. But as a 14 year burner and builder of many art installations and projects, I'm starting to look seriously at the balance of how much work and time it is to pack for, drive to, drive from, unpack and clean from the event compared to the time at the event. I want people who come to be serious, but I don't think the bar should be that high.
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Re: exodus

Postby This Woman » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:35 pm

It is a shame I'll leave early...but not that big of one. I am a long-time burner and the actual burns, while amazing, are now toward the bottom of the list of why I go to BRC every year. They can be sacrificed easier - for me - than I would sacrifice a full day in line and the ensuing exhaustion once on the black-top. Also, this will open up a place in line for someone leaving on Monday - since that has always been my ideal day to leave. And, I'm hoping it's a temporary situation.
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Re: exodus

Postby bradtem » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:51 pm

I left before the burn one year because we had something else that weekend. It felt very strange and we felt we had missed something. That was our 5th year. Now it might not feel quite so strange, I will admit. The burn is a great show, but it's not quite the same intense experience it is your first few times, with the energy both before and in the circle around the pyre when he falls. Indeed we did not go there right away this time, and watched from a further distance. It's hard to see the conclave unless you get there very early anyway. Still I hope to have a good panorama for you at some point.

But I still feel that "If you want to avoid a 7 hour wait, leave before the burn" is not a great result.
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Re: exodus

Postby ibdave » Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:01 pm

This Woman wrote:It is a shame I'll leave early...but not that big of one. I am a long-time burner and the actual burns, while amazing, are now toward the bottom of the list of why I go to BRC every year. They can be sacrificed easier - for me - than I would sacrifice a full day in line and the ensuing exhaustion once on the black-top. Also, this will open up a place in line for someone leaving on Monday - since that has always been my ideal day to leave. And, I'm hoping it's a temporary situation.



4th time for us.
Were in early and work our butts off and after so many sticks on fire, we tried it and now like it.
The Temple almost changed that this year, but now were glad 8) 8) 8) .
I was Born OK the 1st Time....

Don't bring defaultia to Burning Man, take Burning Man to defaultia...... graidawg
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Re: exodus

Postby essjay » Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:50 pm

bradtem wrote:One reason I have raised my concern is that I talked to a lot of people on the playa this year who left before the burns -- before the burning of the Man even, not just before the temple burn, out of concern over Exodus. And the concern was well placed this year. As noted I did the early morning Monday strategy, which used to work well, and now no longer works. People who left mid-day Monday knew it would be slow, and got even slower but at least got something roughly in line with expectations.

But I think you want to avoid a situation where the old-timers are leaving before the Man burns, or everybody says there is little option but to stay to Tuesday as that is not even an option for some.

. . .

But as a 14 year burner and builder of many art installations and projects, I'm starting to look seriously at the balance of how much work and time it is to pack for, drive to, drive from, unpack and clean from the event compared to the time at the event. I want people who come to be serious, but I don't think the bar should be that high.


This has become more of a concern for me over the recent years. Our camp continues to grow, which is nice, but also means more time for set-up and break-down. This year, Thurs & Fri were the only 2 days I wasn't either doing some sort of set-up or tear-down.

Also, due to my early arrival and because my campmates came in from a different direction, I was driving alone. I would have liked to stay for the Temple burn, but I left Sun at 1:00 pm, because I feared (rightly) the Exodus line. I already have a long drive and a bad back, so adding an additional 6-8 hours to my drive was not an option.
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Re: exodus

Postby Radical Self » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:10 am

I compliment Bradtem on his passion for this issue and his contemplation on how to solve it! I share his interest in "burner ecology" and believe that we can ease the wait collectively. Less time in line = more time at "home". My camp's challenge was actually at entry (5-1/2 hours), but that's another thread. Still, it relates to this one because it is a similar challenge.

I think the key arguments for trying to solve these entry/exodus challenges are rooted in the Ten Principles: a combination of Communal Effort, Civic Responsibility, and Immediacy. And besides that, it's fun brainstorming! Still, I can understand and respect that some people are more than willing to bear with it, and I am a bit envious of their acceptance. My right-brained problem-solving mind immediately went to work on this challenge - mainly because I wanted to be burning myself, not burning more fossil fuels! :twisted:

Next year I want to stay the whole time and even get an early construction entry if I can swing it, just so I can see more of how this all works. I am going to volunteer for entry/exodus. And I would also like to help here on ePlaya. Bradtem - if we need some research done, let me know. I'm sure we can learn something from entry/exit strategies from mass events like concerts and sporting events. And bee hives. And ant hills.

I love the idea of a railroad entry! 'More people per entry' is a great model. Like what is done in the default world, maybe we reward the carpool (4+ per vehicle?) with a special entrance/exit or line. There could be a few places in surrounding cities where people could pay a small fee to park their car (lots staffed by security) and get shuttled in or hop into a ride-share to a central "bus terminal" of sorts. Then there are some volunteers who act as baggage handlers/shuttle service to their camp. I would love to see where my fellow artists could go with "ART TAXIS!"

And speaking of camps, I have read many inquiries about people wanting to join camps. Maybe there is already something like this, but just like the ride-share website there could be a camp-share website where people could express their interest in joining a certain type of camp and camps could also have a profile and description of their camp. This reduces the amount of "stuff" that people have to bring in and makes them more mobile. I believe that our camp would have been able to support at least 2 more people easily, sharing our RV toilet, shade structure, food, water, and camaraderie. The toilet was a big plus!

Some other thoughts:
In the survival guide, encourage fellow burners to help push broken-down cars to a safe spot to get them out of the way. I also like the idea of alternate entries/exits. We're "alternate" people. Riding a motorcycle into the event sounds cool. I'm not sure where the walk-ins come from, but maybe we could encourage that and even promote it. I want to find out more about this process.

An inspiring quote from Larry Harvey: "...all real communities grow out of a shared confrontation with survival. Communities are not produced by sentiment or mere goodwill. They grow out of a shared struggle. Our situation in the desert is an incubator for community."
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Re: exodus

Postby phil » Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:12 pm

Hushville was located at 5:00 and D streets. A fellow Hushvillian stopped by on the 25th of September and made this comment:

For those of you keeping track of Exodus times when I left yesterday it took 5 minutes Fourteen seconds from Hushville to the pavement, once again illustrating that your Exodus times are mainly dependent upon the time you leave.
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Re: exodus

Postby BetaBox » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:42 pm

Sounds like someone was speeding on their way out :) ....but I'm just jealous :p
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Re: exodus

Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:48 pm

He was just jerking Phil's chain, cause Phil works exodus...
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Re: exodus

Postby phil » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:07 pm

BetaBox wrote:Sounds like someone was speeding on their way out :) ....but I'm just jealous :p


Note that this was on the 24th of September. :->
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Re: exodus

Postby Playa+Tom » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:28 am

This year tickets sold at the $460 level will include a pass to use the diamond lane during Exodus.
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Re: exodus

Postby Rice » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:32 am

The "problem" with exodus is a bunch of people try to leave at the same time.

The highway is a single lane highway that can only handle so much traffic at once.

I don't know how anyone can honestly try and compare the traffic from a sports event to that of burning man. Seriously, how many motorhomes, trailers, buses leave that type of venue?? A city typically has multiple routes one can go once they are outside the parking lot. BRC has 1 paved, single lane road. There is Jungo road, but 95% (or more) of the vehicles in BRC would not survive that route.... The simplest solution is for people to stagger their departures so that their wait in line is minimized. I prefer to sit in my shade relaxing for 5 hours instead of baking in the exodus line.

Since Burning Man is somewhat governed by the lease and permit for the land it is on, there is also the exclusion zone around the city that cannot be compromised. Failure to follow the terms of the lease will end BM pretty quickly.

In any event, I have a 3000Km drive once I hit the pavement. So 8 hours either way makes no difference. I give myself 3 days for driving anyhow.
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Re: exodus

Postby lazyphoenix » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:21 am

vapor wrote:How about burn the Man Friday, the temple Saturday and then have 2 days for clean up and exodus ?

I came to post this. I think it's a brilliant solution. Bump.
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Re: exodus

Postby ibdave » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:59 pm

with 70k in 3 more years they better figure it out soon... But I think they jumped the shark........... :shock: :roll:
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Re: exodus

Postby 666isMONEY » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:57 pm

[quote="bradtem"]. . . . The one thing I've been hoping for but not seen is a rental traffic signal at the playa exit. The reason is that people have an trained reaction when doing a turn like this to pay too much attention to the human flagger and to be cautious and look both ways etc. On the other hand, when people see a green left arrow it's "go go go" and that's what is needed.[/quote]

So there is a human flagger at the highway Sunday night and Monday? (I leave on Tuesday before sunrise, there is still a line but no one directing traffic at the pavement.)

+1 4 u'r idea, moreover, two or more cars could enter the hwy at one time.

P.S. One of the reasons BLM does not allow more ppl on the playa is the Exodus backup.
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Re: exodus

Postby ranger magnum » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:50 pm

Leaving before the man burns is not an option for us. The week of burningman is our anniversary, and we look forward to the man/temple burns. Plus, I really enjoy working on sunday.

Last year we left monday @ 8:00, and didnt hit pavement until almost 3. This year, we are going to leave tuesday. Also, there is a hotel in Reno that hosts a pretty big burner party tuesday night that we want to check out.
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