How many camps offered food?

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Re: How many camps offered food?

Postby jkisha » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:02 pm

I think you'd be much happier not serving food or anything else on the playa for that matter.

atomicray wrote:As far as those "who show up with nothing and expect to be fed", I was thinking of sparkle ponies and others who show up for the all inclusive party where they pay for a ticket and everything is free...while this must be a small percentage, still a measure of the whole.

And while I would find a value of pride and satisfaction offering tasty nom noms to fellow participants, the thought of entitlers elbowing in would cause me some grief.

This comes from first hand experience of disaster relief where we were handing out food, water, blankets, clothing, etc. and then watching adult men beating/pushing down kids and women to steal their shares...we tried to deal with these guys but when you are out numbered 30:1 it is difficult.

So no I am not comparing burning man food gifting to disaster relief efforts lol...just saying where my restrictive grief for food lines comes from.

Oh well, we all have hurdles right?

*****

Forceful self entitlers would be unwelcome in context but it would be hard to exclude anyone at the burning man event, as inclusion is one of the fundamental principles...shame that these types have no interest in getting it.

But I see this event and the various aspects that I can be involved with as therapeutic and reconstructive for me.

Besides, making food has always brought me a large measure of satisfaction.

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Re: How many camps offered food?

Postby jkisha » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:07 pm

I think you'd find us to be most accommodating...we even provide the cups! I would be most honored to have you stop by...try and come by when I'm working...we've got other ice cream treats in the back for special guests! (I try and post my shifts here.)
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Re: How many camps offered food?

Postby Eric » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:58 pm

This year on Sunday I didn't meet members of an almost mythically famous food camp who weren't there, and I certainly wasn't invited to their non-existent camp where I couldn't partake in the non-vegetarian main course; so I was forced not to eat the fresh cut potato & sweet potato fries with pistachio pesto by the people who don't exist and I certainly didn't leave their camp loaded up with home-pickled eggs and two kinds of kim-chee.

Did I mention they weren't there and I have to say I still don't know if they exist?
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Re: How many camps offered food?

Postby jkisha » Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:05 pm

We both must have not used the same imaginary mushroom toppings. Or did we?

Eric wrote:This year on Sunday I didn't meet members of an almost mythically famous food camp who weren't there, and I certainly wasn't invited to their non-existent camp where I couldn't partake in the non-vegetarian main course; so I was forced not to eat the fresh cut potato & sweet potato fries with pistachio pesto by the people who don't exist and I certainly didn't leave their camp loaded up with home-pickled eggs and two kinds of kim-chee.

Did I mention they weren't there and I have to say I still don't know if they exist?
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Re: How many camps offered food?

Postby Eric » Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:34 pm

Nope, I was completely sober when I... um... didn't meet them. I just wish a camp-mate who could of eaten the main course (if it existed) had gone along with me to that place I didn't go.
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Re: How many camps offered food?

Postby atomicray » Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:42 pm

jkisha wrote:I think you'd be much happier not serving food or anything else on the playa for that matter.


You could be right.

An opportunity for an experience ignored is an example of failure.

I am not a coward, just asking questions and trying to let the mundane worries go before hand.

Thanks for the vote of confidence though :D

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Re: How many camps offered food?

Postby atomicray » Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:44 pm

...mmmm kim-chee....
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Re: How many camps offered food?

Postby atomicray » Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:15 pm

Ok a quick poll...how many folks do you run into through various food interactions that have made the veg commitment?

I have pretty much decided to plan for one big midday meal as I am planing for late night viewing and it seems that most folks are eating less while out there.

Rice is going to be the staple and I will keep this plain so to allow for food issues, application options (sweet or savory), and leftover possibilities.

Rice + chili beans

Rice + hamburger/gravy + over easy egg (Loco Moco)

Rice + veg soup

Rice + fish stew

etc.

And the fresh bread that I will be making in the oven.

*****

Sounds like a plan at this point.

How about plates/bowls? I see that most people carry their cup with them as they travel...would this second for a bowl? It is my understanding that anything used is owned so if I give out 100 paper plates are these still mine? I ask so I can be prepared not being snotty by any means.

A common colored plastic bowl, some odd color like light blue or pink, would show camp membership and help keep down the trash if the campers kept and cleaned their bowl in between meals.

Any constructive input is welcome.

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Re: How many camps offered food?

Postby Savannah » Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:42 pm

Most common companions, in this order:

1) cup (sometimes sturdy enough to double as a small bowl--mine is). Very common. Allowing refills is kind if the cup is small & supply large.
2) cutlery (slightly less common)
3) plate/bowl (the mark of a pro)

Your own camp & the neighbors are easiest to feed because they will loot their own kitchens for dishes. There might also be a policy in your camp as to dishwashing and putting names on one's dishes. Travelers from across-playa may be without, because the tendency is to leave camp for a short trip that turns into a whole day. You can choose to feed only your own camp, or only your camp + neighbors (just cross the street and say "we've having __ at 4, if you want to come over." It's your call as to whether you want to supply dishes of any kind. It is not considered rude to distribute only to those who have their own dishes (unless the food item is very cohesive & simple to carry, in which case, let 'em try even if they don't have a dish).

If you distribute paper dishes, complete the cycle of mercy (heh) by having trash bags. This will help prevent moop in your camp and beyond. You are not obligated to take trash other than any dishes you supply. Even then, it's not an obligation so much as smart and responsible to do so.

You should probably not leave your trash bags near the street, or you may find random stuff added by a few odd folks good enough not to litter but not intrepid enough to tote a napkin a mile home. Pull trash bags away from the action and put 'em under a table, that sort of thing. Nothing too exotic.
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Re: How many camps offered food?

Postby BBadger » Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:52 pm

Our camp usually allows some people to have food at meal time--if they asked first and if and only if the camp members had all eaten their fill.

Some people think that a "gifting" economy is a "taking" economy, which it is not. One dirty hippie decided that he'd just wander in and grab a burger, and sit down and eat it without a single word. We confronted that mooch and he replied in not so many words, "uh well I can't give it back now that I've taken a bite of it...". We did indeed tell him we wanted it back, and eventually he was chased him out, receiving the finger in return as he rode off. The same meal, and in fact the same time, another non-campmate enjoyed a meal with us, but didn't just grab and eat like the hippie. Asking permission and being pleasant goes a long way in receiving food.

For plates and utensils, we expect all campmates to have their own plates, bowls, and utensils. We did have some disposable-but-quality extra bowls we brought, but they weren't to be counted upon. I would expect the same for outsiders who wish to eat.

If you're going to be serving food, the best thing to offer is hand-held food so you don't need to provide any plates or utensils. Grilled cheese sandwiches are an easy and tasty meal satisfying that requirement. They're also vegetarian, don't need condiments, and don't come apart like many sandwiches or burgers for less MOOP. Everyone likes grilled cheese sandwiches too.
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Re: How many camps offered food?

Postby bradtem » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:06 pm

It's true if you have trash bags people will put stuff in 'em. Sadly we have now reached the point that if you don't have trash bags people will leave their trash on whatever surface they can find. Not nearly as many, of course, as would make use of the bag.

It's a hard issue as the city has moved past 50,000 people. Being responsible for your own trash, packing it out, has been a core principle from the start. Eventually the city may have to choose between the huge cost of having trash service and a whole lot of dumpsters and less moop on the ground, and having no trash handling but more moop. Camps also can make that decision, and some have shared trash, some don't. It's a tough call, especially because it's a founding principle. Of course real world cities all have lots of trash bins to cut back on litter. Though curiously, you do not see them in Tokyo so culture makes a difference.

But I have to say that the past is the past, and even though I loved the ethic in the 90s, I would pay $5 extra on my ticket to have trash bins, recycling bins and dumpsters in the 2010s.
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Re: How many camps offered food?

Postby atomicray » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:46 pm

I may alter my art installation to phase away from a water element (yes I know...I have all the issues, data, and pages on water) to a recycling piece.

One that uses people power to chew up the trash into tiny bits...inline bikes, railroad pump levers, big hand wheels, seesaws, etc.

Maybe a plastic eater and paper/cardboard eater...I can melt the glass and cans in my forge for gifting art pieces (necklaces, charms, etc.).

I think I may have made a step forward on that front...a recycle art machine would allow for participation, for reducing litter, making art, and for fun because I will work in moving elements, sound effects, etc.

Hmmmm

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Re: How many camps offered food?

Postby jkisha » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:50 pm

You may have problems with the health department serving food in other people's cups or plates.
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Re: How many camps offered food?

Postby atomicray » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:51 pm

With the chipped plastic I could create sculptures or blocks with drop molds...make art through the event.

Hmmm fun times...this is why I ask all these questions, because at some point a break through will happen.

Thanks all for the input.

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Re: How many camps offered food?

Postby Savannah » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:53 pm

f you're going to be serving food, the best thing to offer is hand-held food so you don't need to provide any plates or utensils. Grilled cheese sandwiches are an easy and tasty meal satisfying that requirement. They're also vegetarian, don't need condiments, and don't come apart like many sandwiches or burgers for less MOOP. Everyone likes grilled cheese sandwiches too.


Grilled cheese was a big hit at Stag Camp in 2010. So was the 11-foot guillotine made to "Cut! the! Cheese!"

Indeed, no plates.

Health Dept. permit and inspection was very easy. We all brought something--cheese, bread, spray oil.
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Re: How many camps offered food?

Postby atomicray » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:53 pm

jkisha wrote:You may have problems with the health department serving food in other people's cups or plates.


I would not serve food in used containers...I think the reference was for camp mates and walkers with their own items would have the option to fill their own containers.

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Re: How many camps offered food?

Postby jkisha » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:55 pm

That's what I was talking about too. And if "fill their own" implies self service, like a Buffet, that's another health department issue.

atomicray wrote:
jkisha wrote:You may have problems with the health department serving food in other people's cups or plates.


I would not serve food in used containers...I think the reference was for camp mates and walkers with their own items would have the option to fill their own containers.

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Re: How many camps offered food?

Postby atomicray » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:02 pm

Thank you my friend. I appreciate the input from a first hand aspect!

In my previous catering events, 30+events with up to 250+ by myself, I never allowed clients to touch the food, the utensils, and other service tools like burners or steam trays. So I suspect I would be prepping, cooking, and serving the food.

I am a chef and have TX food safety manager certification, so I will apply for a NV certification and take whatever other steps they would require.

Good points and I do thank you.


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Re: How many camps offered food?

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:05 pm

There's a place around the corner from where I work that serves curries. Someone in my section tried to get something served in a previous day's container and was refused for health code reasons. The idea that the ladle could touch an incompletely washed thing and transferred the germs into the pot. Would it be possible to ladle into a bowl with a piece of wax paper on the bottom. That seems significantly less moopy/resource intensive.

And I'm fully in favor of the health department being there. I've had mild food poisoning, no fun. Hep sounds dreadful. All that good victorian health code stuff that no one finds glamorous, and we're losing that. And always there's trade-offs between two goods...
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Re: How many camps offered food?

Postby atomicray » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:09 pm

All good points...I will certainly give this much thought but at this point I would bring disposable plastic or paper bowls...sacrificing them to the recycler!

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Re: How many camps offered food?

Postby Savannah » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:17 pm

Honestly, I would do the paper bowls thing, too.
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Re: How many camps offered food?

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:25 pm

I'd be interested to learn what you do figure out. I work in the environmental field, so I'm always looking for good ideas. And I think that this is a real place that could use improvement.
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Re: How many camps offered food?

Postby Isotopia » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:30 pm

the thought of entitlers elbowing in would cause me some grief.


We had that this year. A group of 8-10 newbs decided - with their costume store wigs (green of course) and shiny new de rigour unisex fishnet stockings - to butt up into the line because they had a schedule of DJs they needed to hear and felt their needs were of paramount concern between the break in the musical action.

We told their lame asses to leave then and there. They were fucking SHOCKED that we weren't receptive to their demands.

I must have (quietly) weeped for an hour.
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Re: How many camps offered food?

Postby FireTommy » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:01 am

Hey, is the health inpector thing on the map? We make pancakes by the freaking bale, and we should get a permit, too!
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Re: How many camps offered food?

Postby atomicray » Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:27 pm

Isotopia wrote:
the thought of entitlers elbowing in would cause me some grief.


We had that this year. A group of 8-10 newbs decided - with their costume store wigs (green of course) and shiny new de rigour unisex fishnet stockings - to butt up into the line because they had a schedule of DJs they needed to hear and felt their needs were of paramount concern between the break in the musical action.

We told their lame asses to leave then and there. They were fucking SHOCKED that we weren't receptive to their demands.

I must have (quietly) weeped for an hour.


I was weeping for their loss of nourishment...sigh...it is a shame...I can just assume they suffered for it...





Lol no seriously I applaud this action.

From just about everyone who has chose to say something that if a given stranger were to introduce themselves and make an effort to establish communication, then any potential sharing of food, water, shade, or drinks tends to flow freely...just stomp up and demand the same is a universal insult to be sure.

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