Sawdust moop question

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Sawdust moop question

Postby carefactornil » Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:25 am

All,

I'm planning a large wooden structure for 2012. What's the deal with sawdust? If I need to drill holes or saw through a bit of wood does the sawdust count as moop? And if so, how do people get round this issue in containing it? I plan to do what I can before the playa, but I'm thinking some of the drilling/sawing might have to be done out on the playa. I really don't want to burn it and plan to give all the wood to Burners Without Borders instead, so sawing bit's apart might be the only option if nails are used to put it together.

There might be a way of building / deconstructing without any sawing/drilling on the playa, but just looking at what my options are, and figure there must be a ton of this activity happening in the build up to the event.

Any pointers appreciated. Shoot if you need more info.

Cheese Simon (London, UK)
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Re: Sawdust moop question

Postby Bob » Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:32 am

Use a tarp on the ground and sweep up the cruft periodically.

And go to your eplaya prefs to enable BBcode.
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Re: Sawdust moop question

Postby carefactornil » Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:58 am

Thanks Bob. (hope that bbcode worked!)

A tarp would work for some of the construction bits. And I guess we can use our RV and some other boards as a wind shield.

For the deconstruct, I can see more of a challenge if it involves sawing in situ. The size (25m x 25m) and at up to 4.5m high plus the physical constuction will make getting a tarp in place impractical, especially if we're sawing at 2m above the ground. I can just see that fine sawdust blowing straight away if there's even a small breeze, let along strong winds.

I can't be the first to be trying to deconstruct something like this, so is there any other solution apart from "don't do it that way"?! ;)

I'm assuming that even fine sawdust does count as moop and needs to be contained?

Cheers.
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Re: Sawdust moop question

Postby Snow » Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:36 am

We use tarps and sweep them often before the wind takes the sawdust away anyway. Same goes for slag and grinding dust from my welding. Although its nice and easy to pick up with a magnet.

One often overlooked thing is when using nail guns, they leave little bits of plastic that need to be picked up.
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Re: Sawdust moop question

Postby sawdustbear » Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:53 am

It's a bit more expensive, but I'd really suggest using screws wherever possible. You're probably going to hate sawing through all of your wood at the end of the week trying to take it down.
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Re: Sawdust moop question

Postby carefactornil » Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:42 am

Yeah, am looking into screws - easier to take out than nails!

But they'd need to be 4-5" long. Not sure how easy they'd go in with an electric screwdriver. Especially seeing as there will be somewhere like 1500 of them.

Also looking at corner braces (smaller screws, 1") but needing 1500 of them will cost some major $$ I expect. On top of all the other expensive stuff!
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Re: Sawdust moop question

Postby BBadger » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:33 pm

You could set up a makeshift workshop using some carports, and "seal" up the sides to keep things contained; a bagged shop fan can be used to capture the sawdust and keep it ventilated. Probably won't help if you're sawing on stuff that's already erected.

You can't prefab the lumber beforehand?
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Re: Sawdust moop question

Postby Bob » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:43 pm

Impact drivers work well. Drill & impact driver combo sets w/ charger and two batteries should be $200 or less. Impact drivers can handle the hex head Simpson SDS screws (similar to small lag bolts) as well as Phillips head screws. DPW uses SDS screws to attach 2x beams to 4x4 posts for the org's shade structures.
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Re: Sawdust moop question

Postby Trishntek » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:58 pm

Something our neighbors had which makes sense is a small shop vac. I intend to bring mine next year. Saves alot of sweeping too!

I use screws and bolts with a Dewalt cordless 1/2" drill. It has impact torque settings and you can easily buy various attachments for screws and hex heads.

You might also consider using a router to "dove tail" your joints. It's a stronger joint with less hardware. Of course that would have to be done off playa since routers sling shavings everywhere.
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Re: Sawdust moop question

Postby Risky » Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:45 pm

From the Temple build, we learned that while nail guns are easier to use, it was harder to ensure that the nail went thru two pieces.
For instance, when skinning a framed doorway, when using a hammer, you could tell from the resistance that the nail was going thru two pieces of wood.
So we end up using more nails with the nail gun, with a "spray and pray" attitude.
Also, with a nail gun, many of the nails did not set flush, and we would have to follow up with a hammer to go back and hit it flush.
In the end, it made sense for us to use hammers than nail guns.

Magnetic rakes were a lifesaver for all the screws and nails collected as part of our LNT plan.

As for sawdust, we used the tarp method under all the saws and cutting machinery. If you don't clean up often, one dust storm will spread it all over.
The shop vacuum is a great idea.

If it's good lumber you can donate it to BWB or DPW. Otherwise scraps are used by anyone needing to burn their art.
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Re: Sawdust moop question

Postby essjay » Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:05 pm

Use the newer saws that have sawdust collector bags. Not 100%, but will cut down on dust significantly.
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Re: Sawdust moop question

Postby Bob » Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:19 pm

Or order one of these:

Image
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Re: Sawdust moop question

Postby trilobyte » Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:38 pm

Nail guns should really only be used by people who are already pretty skilled in their use (contractors, etc). If you use them all the time, you get a good sense of what they do and don't go through, otherwise as RIsky said it gets to be 'spray and pray.'

You should be able to get deck screws in a 4-5" length. No need to pre-drill, and they go in as well as come out easy with a power drill. On the drill side, if you can swing it with the project use corded drills (instead of cordless) plugged into a generator. More power plus no battery rundown.

As others have suggested, a shelter/carport with side walls and a tarp on the ground would make a great on-playa 'shop' for making cuts, and you can engage campmates who aren't involved in the carpentry/heavy lifting work to do periodic 'sweep-ups'

+1 to the magnetic rake suggestion.
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Re: Sawdust moop question

Postby sawdustbear » Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:58 pm

I have an army of 12v cordless dewalts which handle 3"-4" drywall screws just fine. The 18v cordless drills do even better, and an impact driver pretty much make any physical work on your part negligible.

We put together the frame for our 1st on playa art project with nails/narrow crown staples and disassembling it a couple years later while trying to save as much wood as possible converted me to screws and bolts forever. If I had to do it on playa, at the end of the burn, I would have been extremely unhappy. Our 2nd project, an art car, is built modularly with screws, corner brackets and lots of bolts. Disassembling it was a DREAM.

Those corner brackets you're talking about are AWESOME, but you have to pay more attention to keeping things flush. Some less skilled help we had became far too dependent on them, and I had to redo a lot of them because the wood wasn't connected flush, negating any structural help from the glue.

Magnetic rakes are awesome. I never even thought of bringing my shop vac, but will next year. I suspect the playa dust will clog the filters beyond belief, but I can always us it for some shop vac performance art out on the streets(ugh, the playa is so dusty.).
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Re: Sawdust moop question

Postby motskyroonmatick » Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:29 pm

I second the shop van recommendation. I left mine out this year and really regretted it. It is very good at picking up small moop and excellent at making quick work on liquid spills. One person operating a shop vac while the other saws/drills would work pretty well IMHO.
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Re: Sawdust moop question

Postby Snow » Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:40 pm

we used a shop vac directly at the saw/drill and that worked out pretty good too.
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Re: Sawdust moop question

Postby The CO » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:55 am

carefactornil wrote:Yeah, am looking into screws - easier to take out than nails!

But they'd need to be 4-5" long. Not sure how easy they'd go in with an electric screwdriver. Especially seeing as there will be somewhere like 1500 of them.


Buy quality tools and you'll have no problems. I put 2000+ screws in a structure in 10 hours or less on a regular basis. Buy the right gear, and you will not have to worry.
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