Planning for the future...

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Planning for the future...

Postby atomicray » Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:14 pm

...in regards of attending Burning Man with a small theme camp.

I am a birgin with one Ustream week under my belt; 75-80hrs easy.

I have time, resources, and desire...time to fill the remaining blanks.

And yes I accept the first piece of advice to "just go, attend one, and then all your questions will be answered", but I am in South TX and we are working out the details of kids moving out and on to college/military so the expense and wasted first time is much to consider with a group attending.

The we will be at least 6 possibly 12, family and close friends.

What I am looking for are some of the particulars of certain aspects of art car builds, rule/regs, dealing with red tape, and some of the aspects that veterans take for granted.

I have been responding to these sort of questions in other threads, some of them like the "fucktards of 2010" just seem completely out of place...so in that end I open this thread :mrgreen:

*****

Thanks in advance to all who have offered info thus far...fun time in the dust to be had is in my future.

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Last edited by atomicray on Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Planning for the future...

Postby atomicray » Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:30 pm

While researching art cars I came across the story of the lady who died on the playa http://www.carrollconews.com/story/1762310.html and this is a very sad issue.

Disheartening and sobering.

*****

I have been an OSHA inspector and remediation facilitator for most of my 21 years in the military and in the last 8 years since I retired. So safety and potential hazards are in my soul as it were, I can't consider otherwise.

The single fatal incident is one too many...but with the number of art cars and mutant vehicles running 24/7 in that environment it is amazing that there are not more...(knocks on wooden desk).

I am looking for input from others who have been involved with design, building, and operating an art car or mutant vehicle regarding steps considered for passenger safety.

I am seriously considering very limited passenger (driver +1-3 seats) options for many reasons...the most important being safety.

I am considering the art car for the creative aspect not the party platform situation, so my motivations are somewhat singular compared to some.

As I noted in another thread, think cupcake car rather than double decker party bus.

*****

Any initial thoughts?

Advice?

Other things to consider?

Thanks for reading through my ramblings.

Atomic Ray
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Re: Planning for the future...

Postby trilobyte » Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:30 pm

There's a ton of great stuff on the main site regarding DMV and first timer's guides and all that... it really is good reference material. Once you've boned up on that stuff, it's easier to ask specific pointed questions rather than "can somebody just tell me everything I need to know."

The "Q&A Tips & Tricks" and "Share Resources" boards are also excellent places to do some reading/browsing as well as posting questions (when you don't see something covered), but I'll throw out the disclaimer right now that I'm going to be making some significant changes to those boards very, very soon. Changes that will hopefully make the place even more useful (see this post for more info on that).

From there, I'll also recommend to definitely check out your regional group. Texas has some very active, very awesome burners, and I believe the annual Flipside event (happens Memorial Day weekend, I think, a couple hours from Austin) is regarded as one of the best regional events out there. They would probably be able to help you out not only to connect with like-minded peeps and to engage in stuff before the burn, but with a lot of the logistics involved (gear haulage, routes to take, local businesses that may be better to work with, etc).
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Re: Planning for the future...

Postby atomicray » Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:37 pm

trilobyte wrote:There's a ton of great stuff on the main site regarding DMV and first timer's guides and all that... it really is good reference material. Once you've boned up on that stuff, it's easier to ask specific pointed questions rather than "can somebody just tell me everything I need to know."

The "Q&A Tips & Tricks" and "Share Resources" boards are also excellent places to do some reading/browsing as well as posting questions (when you don't see something covered), but I'll throw out the disclaimer right now that I'm going to be making some significant changes to those boards very, very soon. Changes that will hopefully make the place even more useful (see this post for more info on that).

From there, I'll also recommend to definitely check out your regional group. Texas has some very active, very awesome burners, and I believe the annual Flipside event (happens Memorial Day weekend, I think, a couple hours from Austin) is regarded as one of the best regional events out there. They would probably be able to help you out not only to connect with like-minded peeps and to engage in stuff before the burn, but with a lot of the logistics involved (gear haulage, routes to take, local businesses that may be better to work with, etc).


Thanks! Sorry it came across as the super noob thread...I did not intend for the initial direction to be "can somebody tell me everything I need to know"...I was actually trying to be a bit more humble about the project and not be all aggressive or demanding.

I appreciate the link and will continue to research the forums and ask questions.

I was trying to be considerate and open to the experience and knowledge of others here; again sorry if it can across as "great another clueless ass-hat".

Ah well, what can do right?

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Re: Planning for the future...

Postby atomicray » Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:38 pm

...and I am seeking the local Texas connections...I was letting the dust settle a bit before beating up on the natives lol.
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Re: Planning for the future...

Postby Sham » Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:45 pm

atomicray wrote:I have been an OSHA inspector and remediation facilitator for most of my 21 years in the military and in the last 8 years since I retired. So safety and potential hazards are in my soul as it were, I can't consider otherwise.

OSHA eh? You will probably have a stroke when you see some of the things going on in BRC. Will 2012 be your first year?
Art cars that hold only a few people are scrutinized much more than one that holds lots of passengers. If it's a smaller vehicle, it must really be spectacular to get a permit to drive.
Check out some of the DMV specifications so you don't waste time making a vehicle that may not get permitted.

http://www.burningman.com/on_the_playa/ ... teria.html

Good luck!

Where in Texas are you?
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Re: Planning for the future...

Postby atomicray » Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:51 pm

Shambala wrote:
atomicray wrote:I have been an OSHA inspector and remediation facilitator for most of my 21 years in the military and in the last 8 years since I retired. So safety and potential hazards are in my soul as it were, I can't consider otherwise.

OSHA eh? You will probably have a stroke when you see some of the things going on in BRC. Will 2012 be your first year?
Art cars that hold only a few people are scrutinized much more than one that holds lots of passengers. If it's a smaller vehicle, it must really be spectacular to get a permit to drive.
Check out some of the DMV specifications so you don't waste time making a vehicle that may not get permitted.

http://www.burningman.com/on_the_playa/ ... teria.html

Good luck!


Thanks Shambala...yes I am sure the red alert will be up 24/7 lol...but I also worked as a contract troubleshooter for the oil field drill rigs, so I built up some non-OSHA tolerances :lol:

At this point 2013 is our planned target date for 1st year attending.

Thanks for the link, that is exactaly the kind of direction I was hoping for...there are so many threads and the layers of information are quite thick. I will read the link in just a minute...I am curious why the "safer" vehicles with less passengers and less chance for injury would be more scrutinized than a "less safe" multi-passenger vehicle...that is an interesting consideration.

I am in Corpus Christi TX.

Much appreciated.

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Re: Planning for the future...

Postby atomicray » Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:41 pm

Ok I found to key comments within the mutant vehicle defining elements that point towards issues of concern:

Interactivity
Provide an interactive experience for participants of Black Rock City. Interactivity is defined as an opportunity for any BRC citizen to participate in some activity offered by your vehicle. The theme and/or size of the vehicle is what's considered here. Do you entertain a crowd? Have plenty of room for riders? Provide a service to the community via your vehicle? Include an interactive element?

Describe the motivation for creating your Mutant Vehicle
If the convenience of personal transportation is your primary goal, please rethink your intent. A primary factor driving your urge to drive should be the sharing of your creation with the rest of the community.

*****

Interactivity...I can see this being an interesting consideration and to be truthful I had already made plans for this aspect, but I was hoping that I didn't need to...because of safety issues. But that said I have allowed for a design element that is like a train car, where I could detach it if need be.

I am a bit confused on this aspect...certainly most of the vehicles that caught my eye were not the party buses and glitter pony platforms...but were rather the cup cakes and other 1-2 seater types...and these certainly did not fall into the hitch a ride consideration.

But I am game either way...at this point I suspect I would be happy with the building process as the whole of the project, be damned with the final use.

The main thought is that it seems the powers that be want the designers/builders to make taxis and buses...and that sort of "requirement" sucks.

It puts significant parameters to be considered that a show vehicle would not have to deal with.

Hmm lots of time to consider all aspects...I will draft some formal design prints and send them off to the folks who decide such things and see what they have to say.

*****

Art car motivation...transport is not high on my list...at the top is the night view (my god it is full of stars...), day look is second, and the standing still value is third...it is my intention to make a piece of themed art that moves not a taxi or bus to transport people from A to B.

*****

All good things to consider, and that is why I asked...if one works with blinders on then the end results can be a bit of disappointment.

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Re: Planning for the future...

Postby some seeing eye » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:17 pm

You might search for posts by people who have done art cars and are no longer doing so - yin and yang.

I think there is enough to experience and learn from doing your first burn, and first camp. Watching the burn on TV is a different beast. I benefited greatly in my early burns from being in a camp with veteran burners, so I wouldn't discount that plan for the first year. Personally I would optimize survival clothing (hot, cold, sun, wind), shelter, camp dynamics, shared shade space, food, costumes, shower, bikes and volunteering before an art car.

Your regional is a great connection. The various packing lists are good too. Enjoy your first burn!
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Re: Planning for the future...

Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:21 pm

You'll find that a number of us are not particularly charmed by "party barges" that have fuck all visual appeal. The only thing some offer is rides, and the problem with mvs and rides is that no one can afford to take apart a new vehicle, so it's some sort of beater and then you're having mechanical issues all week so that no one can get on. Except sparkleponies, but they are sort of weightless.
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Re: Planning for the future...

Postby atomicray » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:04 pm

Good thoughts and thank you.

I am beginning to see that I might be a better asset (electronics tech, electrician, mechanic, HVAC tech, fabricator, artist, tailor, chef) and would have much to offer an organized camp.

We will see. I have already sent out a few feelers for the TX regional contacts but nothing official yet, mostly people I have caught up with on the forums and Ustream week.

My real and only issue is the group concept...it works in the military because it is organized, it works in a sports team setting because there is a goal, but the party fun group is a bit disconcerting for me (hence why I am a multi-craft tech...didn't waste time with partying lol).

Hopefully there is a group that I/we could tag along with.

*****

I am still going to move forward with the theme camp plans...most of the groups are in Houston (3.5-4hrs away), Dallas (7.5-8hrs away), or Austin (4hrs away)...makes it hard to hang out for a BBQ...we shall see.

I work on high end ships/yachts with clients from those very cities that keep their vessels on the coast...chances are good that I could get a group setup local, which is my plan and part of the reason I am planning for 2013 rather than 2012.

To be truthful I don't think I would want to go to the event without an art car or at least an art bike (4-6 tandem setup with lights and glitter...oh so much glitter lol).

I have no desire to be a tourist...but I also do not want to go and to get laid/drunk, unless it is with my wife and we already manage that nicely right here :mrgreen:

So the "just go and you'll love it" is not really a winner for me...I need the planning, the preparation, and the project(ing?)...I want to be one of those pretty sparkles in the playa night...that was a spectacular vision.

And yes I agree being there does not compare to watching it on Ustream, but I got to see the burns from 360*, I got to see close ups and panoramic views, I got to appreciate the entire field of vision that a person on the ground would not...each experience has value and I fully appreciate the Ustream week, it was meaningful to me.

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Re: Planning for the future...

Postby Timezone LaFontaine » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:56 pm

You'll want to refer to the DMV for the official guidelines, but the general rule is that mutant vehicles (not 'art cars') are expected to fulfill a certain set of civic duties (providing rides, and other forms of interactivity) and are not just to be looked at. I've seen a village, or at least a gathering area, where 'art cars' are parked and remain parked for the duration of the event, as they are definitely cool works of art but are not sufficiently 'mutated.' A mutant vehicle is generally not acceptable if you can easily recognize how it is just a variation on a car or a truck, and in fact some of the most incredible ones are custom designed and built from scratch and not based on a manufactured vehicle. Also, I think the DMV has something in mind along the lines of the bar being raised as the years go on as to what is sufficiently mutated... from time to time though, you'll hear from people who find their standards inscrutable or inconsistent. But don't just take my word for it, continue your own research and try to communicate directly with people from the DMV. By the way, my impression is that the cupcakes are something of a rare exception to the DMV guidelines requiring that they accommodate passengers, maybe because they are designed as a whole fleet which has its own arguably impressive aesthetic.
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Re: Planning for the future...

Postby RedHeaven » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:21 am

Man I cant wait til we're all 80 years old and broke with no savings and no social security.....Community Farm or Old Burner Ghettos? heh heh heh

Sorry just had to throw that one out there ;)
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Re: Planning for the future...

Postby Ugly Dougly » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:31 am

Brainstorm: Safety Camp.
Please to visit PAGE TWO.
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Re: Planning for the future...

Postby atomicray » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:36 am

Those are my only two options?

Hmmm I guess the community farm?

Can it be on a nice beach or island in Belize? Belize is a blast. If things do not work out for the plans to move out west then we may just go back to Belize.

Image
Image


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Re: Planning for the future...

Postby Lassen Forge » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:40 am

Now **that** would be quite the theme camp...
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Re: Planning for the future...

Postby Bob » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:44 am

atomicray wrote:...To be truthful I don't think I would want to go to the event without an art car or at least an art bike (4-6 tandem setup with lights and glitter...oh so much glitter lol)...


Never enough clever bikes out there, but avoid actual glitter, anything haphazardly glued on ends up flaking off onto the ground.

And don't forget the Lysol.
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Re: Planning for the future...

Postby atomicray » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:50 am

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:Now **that** would be quite the theme camp...


Right?

lol

I am afraid that the doors would not be wide open...there would be zero tolerance for fratboys, agros, glitter ponies lol.

Indeed Belize is great...inexpensive, everyone speaks English (only country South of us that has English as the primary language), amazing environment transitions (islands, blue water, white sands, beachy shores, open sandy tropics, lush green fields, rolling green hills, jungle, mountainous lushness), and the people are quite proud of being happy which is a rare quality.

On the island there would be plenty of fruit, veg, chickens, and fish/seafood...mmmmm coconut fish curry...

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Re: Planning for the future...

Postby atomicray » Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:08 am

Bob wrote:
atomicray wrote:...To be truthful I don't think I would want to go to the event without an art car or at least an art bike (4-6 tandem setup with lights and glitter...oh so much glitter lol)...


Never enough clever bikes out there, but avoid actual glitter, anything haphazardly glued on ends up flaking off onto the ground.

And don't forget the Lysol.


LOL I was kidding about the glitter...that was a bit from a commercial, the grade school teacher so excited about the new year with so much glitter.

There will be NO glitter :mrgreen:

*****

While in the subject, if the construct does not have a motor then it does not need any sort of license correct?

I could seriously consider a magnificent art bike construct rather than the mutant vehicle. It would solve many issues I have with the design, safety, transporting across the country, dealing with passengers, etc.

I will give this some thought...maybe a handful of bikes that link together to form a larger construct? Hmmm

I could have a multi-tandem bike, letting others pedal around with us...it is much to consider.

Good stuff thanks for the communication :lol:

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Re: Planning for the future...

Postby atomicray » Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:11 am

Lysol? Hmmm what fo...uuh ohhhhh...ewwuw...thanks for that thought...gross.

Bleach/water wipes with each bike having a bin for the wipes.

Gross.

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Re: Planning for the future...

Postby atomicray » Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:31 pm

How important is the music to you for the camp/cars?

I posted this on another less appropriate thread so I will bump it here:


80's would be my first choice.

Blended with some rockabilly/psychobilly (like Reverend Horton Heat or Cherry Poppin Daddies), ska (like Streetlight Manifesto or Reel Big Fish), swing revival (like Squirrel Nut Zippers or Big Bad Voodoo Daddy), and even some folk punk (like Gogol Bordello or Flogging Molly)...

Just you wait and see...it is my plan to have a unique and well blended music to support the whole vision of the theme camp...good music is most important though not blasting with over amplified sound waves.

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