Graywater advice updated for 2011

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Graywater advice updated for 2011

Postby ember » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:40 am

Dealing with graywater (“grey water,” if you prefer) is an unavoidable concern in Black Rock City. The graywater page on the Burning Man website is badly out of date.   Written before any evapotrons were devised, it recommends Evaporation Ponds (known for years now to be high-maintenance space-wasters) and says nothing about sanitation.

Two Earth Guardians have written a revision, which after official review will replace the present 10-year-old text on the Burning Man website. In our opinion this information is needed now; so for now we present the new text as our personal experience and advice.

Please look at the page [url]https://sites.google.com/site/evapotrons/graywater-experience-and-advice[/url] . You may also enjoy the evapotron history, and construction advice, on Home and other pages.

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Re: Graywater advice updated for 2011

Postby BBadger » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:57 am

Good info, but please enable BBCode.
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Re: Graywater advice updated for 2011

Postby Canoe » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:39 am

If I end up with more graywater than I can handle, and take my container to dump at Camp Clean's $1/gal service:
* Do you empty your container there or do you have to leave them your container?
* Will they accept graywater treated with bleach?
* Will they only accept graywater treated with bleach?
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Re: Graywater advice updated for 2011

Postby oneeyeddick » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:41 am

Camp Clean? ^^^
We have an obligation to make space for everyone, we have no obligation to make that space pleasant.
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Re: Graywater advice updated for 2011

Postby The CO » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:52 am

Canoe wrote:If I end up with more graywater than I can handle, and take my container to dump at Camp Clean's $1/gal service:


What on earth are you talking about?
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Re: Graywater advice updated for 2011

Postby shroom » Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:08 am

never heard of that camp, but your page is good advice!
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Re: Graywater advice updated for 2011

Postby junglesmacks » Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:11 am

The CO wrote:
Canoe wrote:If I end up with more graywater than I can handle, and take my container to dump at Camp Clean's $1/gal service:


What on earth are you talking about?



Looks like now we've added to the list of commercial services at TTITD?
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Re: Graywater advice updated for 2011

Postby ember » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:27 pm

Here's the setup. United Site Services is the large company of which Johnny on the Spot (our longtime porta-potty vendor) is a subsidiary, or branch, or something. USS is national and has a base of operations in Reno. Their BRC porta-potty and graywater-pickup crew is based at the USS station at the far end of 5:30, far off the street grid. For some years now they've had a camp, Camp Clean, which I've never been in but I would guess provides sleeping, meals, and showers for their crew.

Many large camps have contracts with USS to remove their graywater, stored in multi-hundred-gallon tanks, at the end of the event. As a very minor side service, USS will also take small quantities of graywater at (imo) high but not budget-killing prices, $1/gallon, from any participant who's willing to haul it out to them.

Is it violating BRC's no-commerce rules/traditions/principles? It's certainly an exception. It's an essential service in exchange for money, not bundled into the ticket price, that the BMorg has thought about and permitted. In that it's like CampArctica and the Café and the REMSA medivac service, which are also exceptions.
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Re: Graywater advice updated for 2011

Postby ember » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:30 pm

Oh, Canoe, I almost forgot. You keep your container.

I don't know what hours they're open for graywater contributions, but I'm sure it's not 24/7.
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Re: Graywater advice updated for 2011

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:46 pm

ember wrote:Is it violating BRC's no-commerce rules/traditions/principles? It's certainly an exception. It's an essential service in exchange for money, not bundled into the ticket price, that the BMorg has thought about and permitted. In that it's like CampArctica and the Café and the REMSA medivac service, which are also exceptions.

I would think, that like the ice, it might touch on health codes. Certainly, I'd guess little or no grey water would be a permit violation.
The Medivac is different (in my eyes) in that it gets involved with other systems of payment that are only off-playa. And in that it's not voluntary, as paying a dollar a gallon is.
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Re: Graywater advice updated for 2011

Postby essjay » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:57 pm

Greywater is a pain in the ass. If RVs get the luxury of being able to pay to dispose of it on the playa, it is fair to allow tent campers the same luxury.

It makes sense to have greywater disposal. It is one of those things where economy of scale make a huge difference. You can have 30,000 evapotrons, evaporation pools, cess pools, whatever (1/2 of which will work by the end of the week) - or just let USS dispose of it properly. Plus, in my years on the playa, I have seen more "cheating" with greywater than any other type of moop.
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Re: Camp Clean Graywater service updated for 2012?

Postby Canoe » Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:43 am

ember wrote:...United Site Services is the large company of which Johnny on the Spot (our longtime porta-potty vendor) is a subsidiary, or branch, or something... Their BRC porta-potty and graywater-pickup crew is based at the USS station at the far end of 5:30, far off the street grid. For some years now they've had a camp, Camp Clean, ...
Many large camps have contracts with USS to remove their graywater, ... As a very minor side service, USS will also take small quantities of graywater at (imo) high but not budget-killing prices, $1/gallon, from any participant who's willing to haul it out to them....


For BM 2012, is Camp Clean accepting 'small quantities of graywater at $1/gallon, from any participant who's willing to haul it out to them'?
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Re: Graywater advice updated for 2011

Postby Mosquitopilate » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:59 pm

I am going alone so if that is true about Camp Clean that is huge
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Camp Clean does NOT accept small quantities of graywater

Postby ember » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:26 am

I'm sorry to report this. All that is true about the Camp Clean rumor is that a few years back, a United Site Services official speculated out loud about providing a small-quantity, walk-in service. USS considered the pros and cons and decided not to do it. I apologize for passing on the rumor.

On the Good News side, for campers in small camps, there is an approved way to dispose of your graywater within your own camp. This excerpt is taken from http://www.evapotrons.info/graywater-ex ... and-advice:

"Filter, Treat and Disperse small quantities of gray water. This method is only for small camps who already know how to minimize dishwater and body-washing water. If you filter and disinfect your gray water before dispersing, and you don’t make mud, you will be within the rules.

"So, pour gray water into a container over which you have mounted panty-hose or a paint strainer. Add chlorine bleach regularly. In your own camp space (NOT public areas like roads or shortcuts), use a garden sprinkler-can (or improvised equivalent, even just a spoon) to distribute the water very sparsely during the hottest hours of the day. The droplets must be sparse enough that they soak in and dry up quickly, and the surface stays firm. But keep in mind that somebody watching might think that you are simply sloshing untreated gray water around, so be prepared to explain your careful process."
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Re: Graywater advice updated for 2011

Postby chopitweldit » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:20 pm

Real Burners DRINK Their Grey Water
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Re: Graywater advice updated for 2011

Postby stsnider » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:12 pm

For just a couple people, you shouldn't have much grey water to dispose of. Melted ice - if it is not contaminated with food from the cooler - is potable and can be dumped on the playa. Anything with food or soap suds is not potable. I strain off the food particles from doing dishes, then combine that with the bathing water, then use a siphon and funnel to put the grey water into a collapsible 5-gallon jug. We've used an evaporation pond before and unless it is agitating, it doesn't work that great. This year with more dust than normal, an evap pond will fill with dust quickly and be useless - and messy. Good luck!
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Re: Graywater advice updated for 2011

Postby ember » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:05 pm

On evap ponds, you and I are in violent agreement: they're hard-to-maintain, low-efficiency space hogs. Did I say smelly? Please take a look at http://www.evapotrons.info/graywater-ex ... and-advice for a fairly complete rundown on appropriate ways to get rid of graywater, and inappropriate ways like evap ponds.

I also agree that two careful campers won't have much of a graywater problem. Only one thing you said that I balk at: "dumped on the playa." Dispersing is good (where the water droplets are absorbed immediately and the playa stays firm), and dumping is bad (where the water stands and the mud starts).

In that article we also cover a great disposal device suitable for most camps: evapotrons, burner-built devices for drying out graywater until all that remains is easily-disposed dry crud on a plastic sheet. There are many designs. Fun to build, fun to watch, and such a pleasure to dump (yes, dump) graywater into.
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Re: Graywater advice updated for 2011

Postby Noboundaries » Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:20 pm

We built two evaporative coolers but used them exclusively for evaporating screen filtered grey water, not cooling. Powered simultaneously by a quiet generator on "econ" setting they evaporated about 3-4 gallons in about two hours. Could do the same thing if they were battery operated or run off an inverter.
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Re: Graywater advice updated for 2011

Postby Bob » Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:25 am

chopitweldit wrote:Real Burners DRINK Their Grey Water


Real burners distill it first.
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