dry ice

Swamp Coolers, Cooler Management, Dry Ice, Misting Systems, and just plain how to beat the heat.

Postby maxf » Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:13 am

[quote="Sanddog42"][url]http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS291US304&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=dry+ice+in+Vegas[/url]
[/quote]

Brutal, but well deserved ;)
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Postby Sanddog42 » Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:57 pm

lol. sorry. didn't mean to be mean. just trying to help.
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Postby Elliot » Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:59 pm

:D
Nothing mean about it -- unless you put that Pipe Bomb in my mail box. :lol:
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Dry ice directory (w/ caveat)

Postby YogaJesus » Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:38 pm

Directory is here http://www.dryicedirectory.com/usa.htm

The AM/PM location in Oakland is closed until October :( Does anybody else know of any east bay / SF locations NOT in this directory?
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Postby maryanimal » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:27 pm

ambok22 wrote:I don't mean to sound critical Shiny, but that is about the worst advice I have ever read. Dry ice is about a buck a pound, lasts the entire week if you show even a smidgin of common sense and care, and your food will not get soggy. But it will freeze Bombay Blue Sapphire Gin solid.



Dr. Pyro wrote:I don't mean to sound critical Shiny, but that is about the worst advice I have ever read. Dry ice is about a buck a pound, lasts the entire week if you show even a smidgin of common sense and care, and your food will not get soggy. But it will freeze Bombay Blue Sapphire Gin solid.


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Postby Trishntek » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:14 pm

maryanimal wrote:
ambok22 wrote:I don't mean to sound critical Shiny, but that is about the worst advice I have ever read. Dry ice is about a buck a pound, lasts the entire week if you show even a smidgin of common sense and care, and your food will not get soggy. But it will freeze Bombay Blue Sapphire Gin solid.



Dr. Pyro wrote:I don't mean to sound critical Shiny, but that is about the worst advice I have ever read. Dry ice is about a buck a pound, lasts the entire week if you show even a smidgin of common sense and care, and your food will not get soggy. But it will freeze Bombay Blue Sapphire Gin solid.


Are we running out of things to write about?


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Postby Abigail J » Wed May 18, 2011 10:05 am

Can't anyone make a god-damn frozen margarita on the playa!
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Postby FIGJAM » Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:52 pm

My walmart superstore now sells dry ice 24/7.
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Postby oneeyeddick » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:18 pm

Well jeebus, look where you live Figgy...you need dry ice in March just to keep your drinks cold!
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Postby FIGJAM » Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:12 pm

I wear it on my head!
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Postby QuickDrawAnnie » Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:28 pm

@Abigail, you've obviously never run into the Chainsaw Margarita guys on the playa. They travel around making and serving frozen Margaritas with a chainsaw-powered blender.
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Re: dry ice

Postby Boomr » Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:06 pm

I just started a little experiment with dry ice. Not that the advice in this thread isn't extremely valuable, well reasoned, wise and thoughtful, but it does tend to be all over the place. So, friends, we are going to do a little experiment together. This morning I bought a 44# block of dry ice, and put it in my cooler in the garage with some 1.75 L bottles of water ice. Lets see how long the dry ice keeps the ice frozen.

The entire story is posted in exhausting detail on my blog : http://totheburn.posterous.com/

Edited to add: why doesn't the url work?

MOD NOTE: YOUR URL WONT WORK BECAUSE YOU CHECKED THE BOX TO TURN IT OFF..
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Re: dry ice

Postby jkisha » Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:17 pm

Boomr wrote:I just started a little experiment with dry ice. Not that the advice in this thread isn't extremely valuable, well reasoned, wise and thoughtful, but it does tend to be all over the place. So, friends, we are going to do a little experiment together. This morning I bought a 44# block of dry ice, and put it in my cooler in the garage with some 1.75 L bottles of water ice. Lets see how long the dry ice keeps the ice frozen.

The entire story is posted in exhausting detail on my blog : http://totheburn.posterous.com/

Edited to add: why doesn't the url work?


Probably because you need to UNCHECK the "Disable BBCode" option either in your profile, or in each post you reply to.
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Re: dry ice

Postby Boomr » Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:43 pm

Ahh HAH!
This is what it does look like:

BBCode is ON
[img] is ON
[flash] is OFF
[url] is ON
Smilies are ON
Topic review

I will look for the secret trap door to turn on....
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Re: dry ice

Postby Lassen Forge » Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:47 pm

figure 10# a day minimum, wrap it in paper (newsprint works well for me), have a separate cooler for your DI storage and your "freezer" (You do NOT want to open your storage cooler more often than necessary)... most importat, KEEP YOUR COOLER OFF THE PLAYA!!! 2 issues: (1) The cold will suck out the bottom of your awesome 7 day cooler, killing your DI early, and (2) you do NOT want to leave a scar on the playa, and a cooler with condensate frozen into the playa will do just that!

DI doesn't melt, it sublimates (eg evaporates) so if you can keep it from evapping you're ahead of the game. I do newspaper and saran wrap, about 3 layers of each. Then again, I'm anal about my DI. (However... do NOT use DI anally... While it seems cool at first, it would freeze the shit outta your hemmorohoids.)

Also... you do NOT want that thing sitting in your closed off and sealed car doing 80 across, well, 80 with the AC going... it will give off CO2 and you can kill yourself pretty badly if you don't keep windows cracked and a fresh air supply going.

Finally - DO NOT mix wet and dry ice - seems like it would work but the wet ice will just make your DI sublimate faster. It's 'zactly like pouring boiling water on wet ice thinking it will keep it colder longer...
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Re: dry ice

Postby motskyroonmatick » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:03 pm

When maintaining individually wrapped ice cream treats in their frozen condition it is best to layer the dry ice amongst the packages rather than have all the dry ice on the bottom of the cooler.
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Re: dry ice

Postby lecosmique » Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:01 pm

Don't know if this has been said or not, but I do not recommend keeping a dry ice cooler in your hexayurt. (If you have one) Hexayurts are fairly well sealed due to all the taping, and we found out last year, that having your dry ice cooler in there, will make you very sleepy. Fortunately, we discovered this on day one. Same goes for in your car, if you have a long drive. (we clock 2300 miles on the way to BRC) The sleepiness and such really does sneak up on you.
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Re: dry ice

Postby jkisha » Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:12 pm

I'm not sure is this is a dry ice question or an appliance question. We take up a 7.2 cu. ft. chest freezer for the ice cream for our root beer floats. We usually get a hotel in Carson City and then unload the freezer and plug it in at the hotel to cool while we buy all the ice cream and other last minute supplies at the Super Walmart there.

It's a pain in the but unloading and loading the freezer, so i was wondering if we used dry ice to keep things frozen until we got to the playa and started the generator, if it would do any damage to the freezer? We'd remove the dry ice before starting the freezer.
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Re: dry ice

Postby FIGJAM » Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:17 pm

Not only will it not hurt the freezer, but leaving the dry ice in there let the freezer run less.

You're just talking about enough to get to the playa?
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Re: dry ice

Postby jkisha » Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:23 pm

FIGJAM wrote:Not only will it not hurt the freezer, but leaving the dry ice in there let the freezer run less.

You're just talking about enough to get to the playa?

Yes, just enough to last the two days we are on the road. So that's good news. I was concerned that maybe because dry ice got so cold it might damage the coils or electrical system or something.
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Re: dry ice

Postby QuickDrawAnnie » Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:25 pm

We take our refrigerator and generator in an open trailer and keep the generator running while en route. This year we'll be using a propane refrigerator and draw a little less attention to ourselves. :wink:
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Re: dry ice

Postby jkisha » Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:32 pm

Ya, we thought about doing that, except we use a box truck and weren't really excited about the fumes, noise and just the general safety of doing that.
QuickDrawAnnie wrote:We take our refrigerator and generator in an open trailer and keep the generator running while en route. This year we'll be using a propane refrigerator and draw a little less attention to ourselves. :wink:
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Re: dry ice

Postby Urban » Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:03 pm

Last year at Earthdance, we set up a large new Coleman cooler with frozen foods and a slab of dry ice on the top and bottom. I was feeding 9 so I was packed with food. The food stayed frozen from Thursday AM when I left the desert until the following Tuesday. It was cold, just not frozen. I also kept, butter, bacom and saudage in the big cooler. I had 3 other coolers:1 upright with a spout and just ice for drinks and you could get a cold drink from the spout. The second was a traditional cooler with big lid that we kept filled with drinks and ice (It makes sense to separate food from drinks that people want frequently. That cooler used the most ice. Finally a ice coolerwith bungee tiedowns to keep the lid tight for food like milk cream, fruits, juice etc. Things that just need to stay cool->cold.

It worked out great. We frequently go out to Joshua Tree Music Festival and this arrangement for a dozen Tribe members and 4 days works great with just one refill of the drinks cooler.
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Re: dry ice

Postby Urban » Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:05 pm

QuickDrawAnnie wrote:We take our refrigerator and generator in an open trailer and keep the generator running while en route. This year we'll be using a propane refrigerator and draw a little less attention to ourselves. :wink:



Don't forget to keep that propane refrigerator level level!
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Re: dry ice

Postby QuickDrawAnnie » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:03 pm

Thanks for the reminder, Urban. Both fridges have made several trips to the playa, usually at the same time 'cause we like to feed lots of people. The propane one was damaged unloading it from the regional burn last year, but I think we've got it fixed now.
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Re: dry ice

Postby Boomr » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:17 pm

[quote="Boomr"]I just started a little experiment with dry ice. Not that the advice in this thread isn't extremely valuable, well reasoned, wise and thoughtful, but it does tend to be all over the place. So, friends, we are going to do a little experiment together. This morning I bought a 44# block of dry ice, and put it in my cooler in the garage with some 1.75 L bottles of water ice. Lets see how long the dry ice keeps the ice frozen.

The entire story is posted in exhausting detail on my blog : [url]http://totheburn.posterous.com/[/url]

And THE RESULTS ARE IN!

44 lbs of dry ice, in an Igloo Maxcool cooler will keep 3 1.75 L bottles of water frozen for...(drumroll)...
6 DAYS!

What I learned:
Dry Ice is wonderful! Unlike water ice, it can keep things solidly frozen at 0 degrees F. It doesn't melt and make a contaminated soup in the bottom of the cooler like water ice does, it's cheap, and it lasts a goodly while. It super ice, ice plus!

However, it is not MAGIC ice. It doesn't keep food safely frozen for more than a few days. And that's the real goal, keeping all of us and our friends healthy.

While the dry ice exists in the cooler, it will keep food frozen and safe. But as soon as the dry ice is gone, the food will begin to thaw and it should be eaten as soon as possible.

When I had the water-ice bottles on top of the dry ice, some of the water ice started to melt after a few days. The parts of the water bottles that were in direct contact with the dry ice stayed frozen solid. I then put all the bottles below the dry ice, they refroze and stayed frozen for a few more days. So store your food at the bottom of the cooler, with the dry ice on top.

When the dry ice sublimates, it goes from a small block of solid to a large volume of gas. If the cooler is latched, the pressure can blow the lid off. Don't latch the cooler. My cooler leaked a lot of cold CO2 out of the drain in the back. I think this is a good thing.

Similarly, the small block of solid can produce enough CO2 to fill your car or tent, and at worst kill you dead, and at the other worst make you so sleepy that you have an accident. Don't store the cooler in your tent, ventilate your car.

More will be coming on my blog, as soon as get back to civilization next week. I'm in New Jersey now.
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Re: dry ice

Postby jkisha » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:03 pm

Boomr wrote:
Boomr wrote:I just started a little experiment with dry ice. Not that the advice in this thread isn't extremely valuable, well reasoned, wise and thoughtful, but it does tend to be all over the place. So, friends, we are going to do a little experiment together. This morning I bought a 44# block of dry ice, and put it in my cooler in the garage with some 1.75 L bottles of water ice. Lets see how long the dry ice keeps the ice frozen.

The entire story is posted in exhausting detail on my blog : http://totheburn.posterous.com/

And THE RESULTS ARE IN!

44 lbs of dry ice, in an Igloo Maxcool cooler will keep 3 1.75 L bottles of water frozen for...(drumroll)...
6 DAYS!

What I learned:
Dry Ice is wonderful! Unlike water ice, it can keep things solidly frozen at 0 degrees F. It doesn't melt and make a contaminated soup in the bottom of the cooler like water ice does, it's cheap, and it lasts a goodly while. It super ice, ice plus!

However, it is not MAGIC ice. It doesn't keep food safely frozen for more than a few days. And that's the real goal, keeping all of us and our friends healthy.

While the dry ice exists in the cooler, it will keep food frozen and safe. But as soon as the dry ice is gone, the food will begin to thaw and it should be eaten as soon as possible.

When I had the water-ice bottles on top of the dry ice, some of the water ice started to melt after a few days. The parts of the water bottles that were in direct contact with the dry ice stayed frozen solid. I then put all the bottles below the dry ice, they refroze and stayed frozen for a few more days. So store your food at the bottom of the cooler, with the dry ice on top.

When the dry ice sublimates, it goes from a small block of solid to a large volume of gas. If the cooler is latched, the pressure can blow the lid off. Don't latch the cooler. My cooler leaked a lot of cold CO2 out of the drain in the back. I think this is a good thing.

Similarly, the small block of solid can produce enough CO2 to fill your car or tent, and at worst kill you dead, and at the other worst make you so sleepy that you have an accident. Don't store the cooler in your tent, ventilate your car.


More will be coming on my blog, as soon as get back to civilization next week. I'm in New Jersey now.


As this was an experiment, I'd be interested in how you ascertained the section in red I highlighted. Who volunteered?
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Re: dry ice

Postby unjonharley » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:06 am

\\
Dry ice is a lot of extra work and fucking around..

Better dry camp planing and cooler care will make less camp time and more fun time.
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Re: Dry ice directory (w/ caveat)

Postby jross » Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:50 pm

YogaJesus wrote:Directory is here http://www.dryicedirectory.com/usa.htm

The AM/PM location in Oakland is closed until October :( Does anybody else know of any east bay / SF locations NOT in this directory?
This a number to a place in Sacramento that has it, 916 556 3404.
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Re: dry ice

Postby Boomr » Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:29 pm

jkisha wrote:
Similarly, the small block of solid can produce enough CO2 to fill your car or tent, and at worst kill you dead, and at the other worst make you so sleepy that you have an accident. Don't store the cooler in your tent, ventilate your car.


As this was an experiment, I'd be interested in how you ascertained the section in red I highlighted. Who volunteered?


Alas, I had no volunteers to test that statement. I didn’t test the exploding cooler statement either, so that is available for verification. I think I’ll leave that one to the MythBusters.

Although I didn’t test the statement directly, I have every reason to believe it is a valid conclusion, based on my observations. When the dry ice was in the cooler, I could feel cold “air” leaking out of the closed drainage valve. I know the CO2 was sublimating and expanding, causing an overpressure in the cooler. I know that CO2 is heavier than air and without mixing would sink to the lowest point. Therefore, this was most likely CO2 leaking out of the valve. It was a surprising amount, like the feeling of holding your hand in front of your mouth and blowing gently.

I had always assumed that you died of CO2 exposure because you used up all the oxygen in an inclosed space, or the CO2 displaced the oxygen, causing suffocation - death from lack of oxygen. Surprisingly (to me at least,) this isn’t always how it happens. It turns out that CO2 itself is actually toxic, and can harm or kill you even when there is enough oxygen in the air.

Fun facts:
1,000,000 ppm of a gas = 100% concentration of the gas. Therefore, 10,000 ppm of a gas in air is a 1% concentration.
Normal outdoor CO2 concentration is between 300 and 400 ppm. 400 ppm is a 0.04% concentration.
Indoor air usually has about 600 ppm, or a 0.06% concentration.
At 1% concentration of CO2, some people may begin to feel drowsy. This can happen in a room full of people with poor ventilation. These effects are most likely from the reduction in the amount of oxygen.
At above 5%, CO2 is directly toxic.

I found a few sources that explain it much better than I can.
This case study is very interesting, dealing with the death of a man who went into a walk-in refrigerator containing dry ice in which the ventilation system had failed.
http://www.emedmag.com/html/pre/tox/0500.asp

And this site also explains it very well:
http://www.inspectapedia.com/hazmat/CO2gashaz.htm

So, the question is, when I throw my cooler in the back of the Lexus, set the AC to recirculate and hit the road for 10 hours, am I in danger? From the volume of CO2 that was being forced out of the valve it certainly seems likely that the CO2 concentration could easily climb into the 1% range, causing drowsiness. Could it climb higher into the range where the CO2 becomes toxic and kills quickly? Possibly, but like I said I didn’t do that experiment and I don’t think I will.

But thanks for asking :D

We will definitely be taking dry ice in the cooler, its so much less mess than water ice, lasts longer and is just as easy to get. We'll just make sure we have enough ventilation.
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