Tent in Tent?

Ideas, advice, tips, and tricks regarding shelter, shade, tents, and camping. Yes, this includes RV's too.

Tent in Tent?

Postby jobelz » Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:08 am

Hey guys!

I've been all over my tiny country to find a decent camp setup for our first BM experience. The main problem seems to be a solid shade structure. I thought about making something that's attached to the car, but then I see a big storm coming ripping out some supports and nicely remodeling our rented 4 wheeler.
The standalone things that aren't too heavy to bring with us on the plane are awfully light and fragile and would need serious modding to keep on the ground. The nylon tarp they have doesn't seem that strong either.
Then I saw these nice tipis (tentipi is the brand) that have a cotton/polyester tarp. I figure it's better to keep the sun out and it would be possible to place two small tents inside. I worry however that it will keep the heat in and turn it into an indian sweat hut soon.

Does anyone have experience with this or some wisdom to share?

Thanks
J.
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Postby jkisha » Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:40 am

Having to transport everything on a plane is the deal breaker here.
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Postby gyre » Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:43 am

Tent in tent is good for dust.

If it lets heat in, it will keep it in.

The important thing is to block all light and heat.
Not that easy, but it works.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:18 am

I think, although I am not sure, that the honest to goodness real article had the ability to lift up and tie up the side panels. Then you leave the smoke hole good and open and there's a breeze. Tipi poles are no joke to transport.
I think that tieing something up--well--on your rental wouldn't be a problem. I'm really not part of the brain trust on this, but maybe a monkey hut would work.
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Postby viajera80 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:36 am

We have used an REI Alcove with wind walls at BM for five years with great results. It makes a nice shade and blocks most of the wind and the dust. Putting an air mattress or a tent inside this shelter might work. It really only fits 2-4 people, though. You can order it through REI and have it delivered to the Reno store for pickup. It breaks down and goes into a bag.

http://www.rei.com/product/761882/rei-alcove-windwalls
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Postby Trishntek » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:37 am

The tent within a tent does not yield sufficient shade. I do not know of a conventional tent that offers absolute hard shade like HD silver tarp does. OD green military canvas tents can do it but they are prohibitively heavy.

The whole idea is to place your tent under shade much like camping under a tree. It should offer hard shade from the sun AND allow good air flow. A quality canopy can be playafied with T-posts, but you would have to acquire the posts on the Nevada side of your flight.

How big of a tent do you plan to dwell in actually?
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Postby illy dilly » Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:19 am

What is your 'tiny country'?

I'd recommend, a monkey hut. For the sheer purpose that you can buy all the stuff you need once you get to Reno. Between Tarps, PVC pipe, rebar and rope for guying I don't think it would cost you that much.
Maybe it would, I've never built a monkey hut.

You could go to your local hard wear store, find things that are on the shelf that DO NOT need to modified. Test build one at home, and leave it there- and buy everything when you get to Reno.
Or only leave the PVC pipes, and bring the tarps and rebar.
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Postby Fufa » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:00 am

Tent in a tent does not do much to cool down the inside if both tents are mostly or entirely enclosed. The light let in each tent layer gets trapped and turns it all into a big greenhouse. A separate tarp (preferably sunblocking: silver top and black bottom) rigged up above works well instead. If you have a smaller tent and a tall vehicle such as an SUV or truck you could make a lean-to structure sloping down from vehicle to the ground. Make sure the tarp is high enough that it does not actually touch the walls of the tent. Leaving the sides open for wind to go through will also cut down on heat.

If the tent in a tent option is more for cutting down on dust: I considered that option last year for my asthma but instead settling on an easier (and lighter) method that might be better for you if flying in. The tent I use is a 6-man with a full door on one side and a room divider that isn't much more than a sheet of plastic with a zipper down it. We put our bed in the "room" without the door and rigged up an additional sheet with safety pins along the divider. In addition we had polar fleece sheets clipped over any mesh panels as well as hanging across the door on the outside of the tent to stop more dust. At the end of the burn, besides the dust brought into the door-side room by our clothing, there was next to no dust in our tent!
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Postby ConnieH » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:11 am

Monkey Hut all the way!! You can get everything you need at Lowe's or Home Depot (maybe call ahead to a store in Reno to make sure they save it for you?). And you don't need the connector joints that the original monkey hut plans call for, we slipped 2.5 foot pieces of 1.5" pvc over the joints, then tied it all together with rubber innertubes (worked like a CHARM!).

I prefer shade cloth, but a silver tarp will definitely work and is cheap, bungee balls are also cheap. I haven't priced everything out, but I'm guessing you could buy all the materials you need in Reno for $50-$75.

Monkey huts are really easy to put up, they hold up well in the wind and provide good shade. And if you can't take it home with you, I'm sure you could donate it to DPW or someone else before you leave.
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Postby jobelz » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:12 am

Thanks for the advice people!

The country I live in is Belgium. We have waffles. :wink:
We're allowed to haul 26 kg (57 pounds) per person (without paying extra) and there's two of us. The initial idea was to to pack camping related stuff in one bag, meaning those 57 pounds as upper limit.

We don't need a lot of space tbh, just enough to not go crazy when a long long dust storm hits. :) That's why we though to put two small tents under a shade structure with the car trunk nearby as storage.

I'll definitely check out the monkey hut. Buying things in Reno does look interesting but I sort of want to apply the "leave no trace" concept to the whole of the USA and taking all things with us on the way back might be a problem. In any case, I'll do some math, it might not weigh that much which means we could prepare it here and take it with us.

Here I am, struggling with tents, and some people manage to build an entire art display...

Thanks,
j
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Postby gyre » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:16 am

True that it is critical to block all light from the top, even the sides too.
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Postby gyre » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:20 am

See if you can find a source for one of the solid aluminet variants in europe.

This is excellent shade.


Some build box houses of wood and cardboard, burn them afterward.
There is some labor time involved.
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Postby Foxfur » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:48 pm

jobelz wrote:Thanks for the advice people!

The country I live in is Belgium. We have waffles. :wink:

And frites! I love those!
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Postby illy dilly » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:57 pm

jobelz wrote:The country I live in is Belgium. We have waffles. :wink:

LOL! :lol: :roll:

jobelz wrote:I'll definitely check out the monkey hut. Buying things in Reno does look interesting but I sort of want to apply the "leave no trace" concept to the whole of the USA and taking all things with us on the way back might be a problem.


You could always give it to me! :wink:
I can't imagine a love hut takes up a whole hell of a lot of space. Its pretty much what? Just a few PVC pipes, some tarps, and rebar? I'd be more than happy to take it with me :wink:

But honestly. As long as you packaged it up nice, and set it in an orderly pile when you're done, DPW would likely use it. If you scattered the pieces all over the place, they would think it was trash. But if you wrapped some twine or rope around the parts, maybe even wrote "COMPLETE MONKEY HUT" on it, I'm sure they would be happy to put it to good use.
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Postby mudpuppy000 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:35 pm

Monkey hut sounds like a good way to go. I did a lean-to with my SUV my first year and it worked pretty well, just make sure not to let the tarp or ropes touch the paint as it will scratch the shit out of it. :) Didn't bother me much as I already had plenty of scratches from running into bushes and rocks.
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Postby Bounce530 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:30 pm

Connie got it! The total price for my monkey hut was $63. Thats the tarp, PVC, rebar, zip ties, and bungees.
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Postby illy dilly » Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:17 pm

Bounce530 wrote:Connie got it! The total price for my monkey hut was $63. Thats the tarp, PVC, rebar, zip ties, and bungees.

Wow, for 63 bucks I might have to look into adding a monkey hut to our camp.
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Postby Packoderm » Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:58 pm

I can see a tent in a tent working if you put a blanket over the inner tent, stuff insulation between the tents, and attach a swamp cooler or an a/c to it. And then put a shade cover over that with shade mesh sides.
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Postby akmojo » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:06 am

I used 70% Aluminet as the walls on my Costco carport lounge area and was utterly sold on it !! my tent was in a walled carport and it does become an oven inside it without some way to vent the hot air trapped in the peak out...
no doubt you could easily rig a large enough top to shade both your tents and the weight would be minimal.. you could buy your pole material in Reno...
I also used a swamp cooler in my walled carports (2 Costco ones side by side, middle walls left out) and it worked great !! if you were 4' tall...
the temp layer was at about 4', baking hot when you stood up but comfy sitting on the Playa... if I had cut a hole in the downwind ends of the peaks in the carports so the hot air could be pushed out I would imagine the temp level would have gone up.. maybe to 6' ??
swamp coolers will use a lot of water .... something to consider...
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Postby gyre » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:34 am

I never thought of ventilation.
Blocking heat is key.

Comfortable till noon.
Tolerable until 2 pm.
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Postby jobelz » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:25 pm

Thanks for the advice guys! I'll be making a monkey hut in my garden soon, to try things out. I'm think about trying this one:

http://galaxybeing.com/galaxyhut/

Looks easy enough and I can bring everything with me except the rebar and the pvc fittings. Are these things off the shelf available?

Cheers,
J.
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Postby gyre » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:35 pm

An appropriate tarp would be the hard thing, i would expect.

I like shelter systems tarps.
They do fancy ones, but much higher than the basic ones.

http://www.shelsys.com/

Solid aluminet would be lighter, I imagine, and more efficient.
But I mean 100% aluminet, not available here.
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Postby MyDearFriend » Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:35 pm

jobelz wrote:Thanks for the advice guys! I'll be making a monkey hut in my garden soon, to try things out. I'm think about trying this one:

http://galaxybeing.com/galaxyhut/

Looks easy enough and I can bring everything with me except the rebar and the pvc fittings. Are these things off the shelf available?

Cheers,
J.


I have not been able to find T-shaped fittings that the 1-1/4 inch pipe will fit through; some kind of lip inside gets in the way. I am making do with X-shaped ones at the ends. If you have ones that work, bring 'em; they are small & light. But the pipe itself, yeah get that in Reno or wherever.

Home Depot sells the 2-ft rebar stakes for about a dollar each.
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Postby FIGJAM » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:01 pm

MyDearFriend wrote:
jobelz wrote:Thanks for the advice guys! I'll be making a monkey hut in my garden soon, to try things out. I'm think about trying this one:

http://galaxybeing.com/galaxyhut/

Looks easy enough and I can bring everything with me except the rebar and the pvc fittings. Are these things off the shelf available?

Cheers,
J.


I have not been able to find T-shaped fittings that the 1-1/4 inch pipe will fit through; some kind of lip inside gets in the way. I am making do with X-shaped ones at the ends. If you have ones that work, bring 'em; they are small & light. But the pipe itself, yeah get that in Reno or wherever.

Home Depot sells the 2-ft rebar stakes for about a dollar each.


Here you go.

http://www.ysbw.com/Canopy-Fitting-1-3-8-Cross-p/2430.htm
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Postby Sic Pup » Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:36 am

MyDearFriend wrote:I have not been able to find T-shaped fittings that the 1-1/4 inch pipe will fit through; some kind of lip inside gets in the way.


The Home Despots/Lowests in my area stock fittings/pipes in both the plumbing and electrical sections, alternatively you can use a dremel (or if you're oldschool a file/rasp) to remove the lip.

That said, the original Lovemonkey plan calls for 1 1/2" fittings and duct tape to increase the diameter of the pipe and provide a snug fit.

YMMV
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Postby MyDearFriend » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:10 am

Sic Pup wrote:
MyDearFriend wrote:I have not been able to find T-shaped fittings that the 1-1/4 inch pipe will fit through; some kind of lip inside gets in the way.


The Home Despots/Lowests in my area stock fittings/pipes in both the plumbing and electrical sections, alternatively you can use a dremel (or if you're oldschool a file/rasp) to remove the lip.

That said, the original Lovemonkey plan calls for 1 1/2" fittings and duct tape to increase the diameter of the pipe and provide a snug fit.

YMMV


Yeah that's what I am saying, the 1-1/4 inch pipe will not slide through the 1-1/2 x 1-1/2 inch T. And I know it would be manly of me to buy a $20 tool to reshape a $2 part, but, I ain't going there. :lol:

Thanks for the link, Fig, haven't got it to work yet but I will keep trying!

ETA: hey I see where you were pointing there but this is what I am looking for, I think:
http://flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?cart_id=5160350.6471&product=PVC-Tees-Slip-Slide

Now trying to find a better price. 8)
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Postby FIGJAM » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:19 am

Try Yuma Bargain Canopy and go to fittings, it's a 1 3/8 cross.

The link worked when I tried it. Strange.
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Postby Sic Pup » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:21 am

MyDearFriend wrote: And I know it would be manly of me to buy a $20 tool to reshape a $2 part, but, I ain't going there. :lol:


You're doing it wrong :wink:
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Postby MyDearFriend » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:31 am

Sic Pup wrote:
MyDearFriend wrote: And I know it would be manly of me to buy a $20 tool to reshape a $2 part, but, I ain't going there. :lol:


You're doing it wrong :wink:


Bwahahahahaha, yes I know! Handicapped here by intense femininity...

:lol:

I am having fun though.

Figjam my dear I am looking for plastic, sorry, I think now what I need is called a slip-slide T.
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Postby Elorrum » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:42 am

That tent tipi is WOW expensive. I don't think you need to go there unless money is no problem. If you could raise the center pole higher, put it on top of a crate of something sturdy, and then add rope to the bottom stake points, you would add a bit of airflow. I'm assuming that is the type of structure it is: one pole, and the the fabric tensioned down to stakes at the bottom. I've found the best way to get good tension in this sort of tent is to stake out the bottom first so the end result isn't lopsided, or loose. I have a black diamond megamid, Image
what would be even better, I think an outer set of poles, a layer of shade fabric over those, and then lose the center pole, and hang the tipi from the outer structure, stake and tension the bottom, it would be great for the playa... but I'm not helping now, am I? You can rig a tarp from your car top. If your tent is short, just angle a tarp to the ground on each side of the car... one side tent, the other side sit around. Since you are travelling light, your shade is not a community party space, just personal quiet rest area, it can be small... loads of communal party beat the heat shade to be found at Burning Man.
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