The Politics of the Water Bottle Industry

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Did you know about this issue before reading this post?

Yes
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77%
No
3
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Total votes : 13

The Politics of the Water Bottle Industry

Postby FR33L0VE » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:14 pm

Hello wonderful new extended family!

My name is Kevin =]

I suppose I could do my introductory post on the introduction forum, but I feel I'd rather introduce myself by starting a discussion, the topic?

Water Bottles.

This will be my first burn but I'm no stranger to festival culture, and Water Bottles are a unquestionably a large part of it. While they are convenient, the impact they have on the world is saddening. Though there full impact is just starting to come to light.

I'd like to bring to your collective attention this movie: I'm in no way using this post to promote it, and am not affiliated with the production whatsoever; just using it to solidify and expand on my point as well as spread awareness on an, in my opinion, urgent issue. :]

Tapped
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/tapped/

Bit of a summation for people who arent able / dont have time to watch the film:

The bottles themselves are one side of the coin, as when left in a hot car ( or the desert ) for a prolonged period of time it's been proven that they leak very dangerous chemicals into the water.

That being said the water itself is the other side of that coin, municipal tap water is tested very often, many times a day even. Where as the Water Bottle Industry not only takes water from local economies without regulation, it distributes it with almost no quality control standards!

So heres my discussion point:

What are your thoughts on the Water Bottle Industry, the FDA's involvement ( covered in the documentary, but to sum it up for those unable to watch; theres very few people regulating the whole industry, and they hardly know whats going on. ) , and where does that leave us with BM Preparedness, do you think with this information in mind you'll change your shopping list?

I know I am, I plan on doing my best to contain my bulk water in wood and/or metal, and relying on a static, metal water bottle / satchels as opposed to flats of BPA laced water bottles.
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Postby jkisha » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:09 am

Hey there, welcome to eplaya!

Nope, not one bit. We keep our plastic water bottles chilled in our fridge. There are better ways to save the planet. Why don't you make your second post be on the dangers of emissions from all the fire art on the playa.
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Postby FR33L0VE » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:27 am

Thanks very much for the welcome! :)

I appreciate your opinion on the fire emissions, but I'd like to keep this thread on topic :]

Speaking of which I wasnt so much talking about "Saving the Planet," but how these issues apply to Burn Preparedness and our own health, as the bottles are almost inevitably exposed to high tempratures, which causes this adverse effects.
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Re: The Politics of the Water Bottle Industry

Postby Foxfur » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:32 am

FR33L0VE wrote:Hello wonderful new extended family!

My name is Kevin =]

Welcome to ePlaya!I suppose I could do my introductory post on the introduction forum, but I feel I'd rather introduce myself by starting a discussion, the topic?

I started out here in 'camp introduce yourself' and got some very friendly responses on my very first post there.

Water Bottles.

This will be my first burn but I'm no stranger to festival culture[...]

What is festival culture? How can you be sure you'll find it at the burn?
This will be my first burn too and I don't really expect it to be that kind of culture. I'm trying very hard not to expect at all. Not always successfully...



Tapped
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/tapped/

Hmm.


The bottles themselves are one side of the coin, as when left in a hot car ( or the desert ) for a prolonged period of time it's been proven that they leak very dangerous chemicals into the water.

Just imagine if you didn't drink the water.


That being said the water itself is the other side of that coin, municipal tap water is tested very often, many times a day even. Where as the Water Bottle Industry not only takes water from local economies without regulation, it distributes it with almost no quality control standards!

Takes, from, huh? Testing, standards... Oh arrgh.
No control, all die.
I think someone's checking on them. Plus customers don't pay for shitty water for very long. So my last point may not hold water :oops: but there it is.


So heres my discussion point:

What are your thoughts on the Water Bottle Industry, the FDA's involvement ( covered in the documentary, but to sum it up for those unable to watch; theres very few people regulating the whole industry, and they hardly know whats going on. ) , and where does that leave us with BM Preparedness, do you think with this information in mind you'll change your shopping list?

I manufacture my own water using ultra-pure semiconductor grade H2 and O2.
I will not make changes! These are my demands!


I know I am, I plan on doing my best to contain my bulk water in wood and/or metal, and relying on a static, metal water bottle / satchels as opposed to flats of BPA laced water bottles.


Went a li'l sideways in the last turn there. I'm trying not to be a dick about it but beginning at the beginning makes for a good beginning. Check out the forum and introduce yourself :D
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Postby AntiM » Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:16 am

Penn and Teller did a Bullshit episode about bottled water years ago, although not about the safety of the bottles. Fancy-schmancy tasting, labels and names, all New York tap water from a hose.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrakl_107-feng-shui-bottled-water_tech

(you have to get through the feng shui BS first, 16:29)

Tap water is regulated heavily (EPA). Bottled water is not as heavily regulated (FDA), and not within states. Nope, no one checks for the purity of bottled water, and you can't tell by look or taste if it is shitty water or not. We bring water in suitcase containers, preferably from a local Utah source when we can, but that may be completely naive. We only bring individual bottles to poison our guests.

Although much of the bottled water out there is from "municipal sources", aka tap water.

I drink tap water at home. Out of steel bottles.
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Postby moonrise » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:06 am

WARNING! @ 72 minutes into the documentary, another website asks the viewer for $$$$ if you want to finish watching. :roll: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yea, we all know plastic water bottles and that industry is selling (some/most) of us shitty water and poisinous plastic bottles. Most of us can handle that for the short, precious days we're able to enjoy burning man.

FR33LOVE wrote:
I plan on doing my best to contain my bulk water in wood and/or metal, and relying on a static, metal water bottle / satchels as opposed to flats of BPA laced water bottles.

wood, as in barrels? We could burn them later in the week.
satchels, what are those made of?
static metal water bottles, I hope you mean the safe ones, made without the plastic lining.
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Re: The Politics of the Water Bottle Industry

Postby FR33L0VE » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:14 am

Foxfur wrote:*snip*

Went a li'l sideways in the last turn there. I'm trying not to be a dick about it but beginning at the beginning makes for a good beginning. Check out the forum and introduce yourself :D


It would be easier to not interpret that post as you being a dick, if was less confusing lol;

So you started in the introduce yourself forum, got friendly replies, and then proceded to shit on me in your next post? lol, bit backwards dood! =/

Your next question is kind of ignorant, I respect the idea of trying to not expect, but it is a festival of arts and music culture, so I dont get why you had to belittle that statement too.

"Just imagine if you didn't drink the water." Obviously not an option, exactly why I'm bringing this matter to light as its an inevitable thing were going to have to come into contact with on the playa.

For your next edit I must admit I loved the pun XD But it does show that you didn't watch the film, and/or look into the matter whatsoever, so how can you come to that conclusion?

The last one is just plain rude, and really makes me think you didn't try to not be a dick.

I dont want my reply to come off as offensive, as its hard to portray tone on a message board, but I'm not down with getting flamed when I'm just trying to spread awareness about an issue thats very related to BM and Politics, ( Aka this forum )

What exactly are you saying with your edits, I put this topic up for discussion not flaming dood, so either take part in the discussion if you'd like or please quit the bad vibes! <3
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Postby FR33L0VE » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:21 am

moonrise wrote:WARNING! @ 72 minutes into the documentary, another website asks the viewer for $$$$ if you want to finish watching. :roll: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Shiz yo if that actually happens I'll find another link; I personally watched it on my television, so I hadn't screened this link, It def was not my intention to lead people to that skeezy internet lameness! *sorry*

Yea, we all know plastic water bottles and that industry is selling (some/most) of us shitty water and poisinous plastic bottles. Most of us can handle that for the short, precious days we're able to enjoy burning man.

FR33LOVE wrote:
I plan on doing my best to contain my bulk water in wood and/or metal, and relying on a static, metal water bottle / satchels as opposed to flats of BPA laced water bottles.

wood, as in barrels? We could burn them later in the week.
satchels, what are those made of?
static metal water bottles, I hope you mean the safe ones, made without the plastic lining.

Ya, upon second thought barrels obviously probably would be a bit hard to fit into the budget/transport side of my adventure to the playa, but its still better then a huge plastic container imo.

Satchels can be a lot of different materials from Leather to Synthetic fybers, I'm sure theres a lot lined with plastic but I tend to lean on the side of eliminating that kind of thing where I can ya know?

I'm getting a lot of negative vibes from the replies on here, I dont really get it? Isn't this supposed to be the ePlaya? Like, of course I mean the ones without plastic lining, it would be so counterintuitive to my entire post to mean otherwise, so why the almost snarky question?

Obviously I'm going to encounter the plastic bottles, and going to have to drink them, but I'm def not going to when I dont have to, and I feel its good to at least know whats up with your water, and make your own decisions from there, then unknowingly ingest these chemicals.
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:21 am

The barbarian in me is shocked that we have been shilled into buying not only water, but plastic "recyclable" bottles.
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Postby illy dilly » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:28 am

FR33LOVE,
I feel that you are not actually in tune with how most people get their water to BRC.

I know very few people who purchase all their water for the week. Most bring it in reusable containers such as
Image
Image
Image
Image

I believe that most of these containers are made BPA free. A growing trend is to buy water in Gerlach from their newly built water purification plant. Its cheap, you help the Gerlach community, and you don't have to haul water but the minimum amount.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:43 am

I buy in the suitcases and will continue to do so. 2.5 gallons (what is that, 20#?) is about as heavy and as bulky as I can handle so filling 5 gallons is not reasonable for me. It's the only time all year I buy my water, instead of getting from the tap.
And, to the OP, this board is used to getting the environmental lectures from anyone who feels we need improving, and it makes many of us quite cranky.
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Postby goathead » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:12 am

Welcome Kevan

FR33L0VE wrote:I appreciate your opinion on the fire emissions, but I'd like to keep this thread on topic :]


Wondering if you realize where you are?

Do you enjoy being preached at/to?

So of us have been burning I would guess while you where still in grade school.

Your coming off as a perfect poster child for "We don't give a FUCK how they do it in California."

Come to the Da Bar, sit down have a drink, get to know us, come out, get dusty, see how things are done.

Embrace the BACON.
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Postby moonrise » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:44 am

FR33LOVE,

I'm not big on snark, that was more of a roundabout way to say this:
I bought the plastic lined metal water bottles, then was told by a freind to get the all metal ones. PITA and money was wasted. This was a few years ago.
I think the plastic lined bottles are still being sold. I own ONE aluminum water bottle, those things were pricey when I bought mine. (maybe they've come down, not sure?)

I bring Sierra tap water, from artesian wells, in the square blue cubes pictured above. If I were not as close to the playa, I would buy my water in Gerlach.

I do also bring (burngins, help! haha) cases of one gallon, square plastic jugs of water. Easier to handle/chug and once empty, for the pee jug and splooge thing ya' know, they work really really well for that out there.

peace and maybe you'll start a new thing, safer water and containers for all. :wink:

P.S. The documentary is very well made. I have more coffee and a bit of time if you can find a new, better link. I've invested 72 minutes, hahaha, I like to finish...
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Postby jkisha » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:51 am

goathead wrote:Welcome Kevan

FR33L0VE wrote:I appreciate your opinion on the fire emissions, but I'd like to keep this thread on topic :]


Wondering if you realize where you are?

Do you enjoy being preached at/to?

So of us have been burning I would guess while you where still in grade school.

Your coming off as a perfect poster child for "We don't give a FUCK how they do it in California."

Come to the Da Bar, sit down have a drink, get to know us, come out, get dusty, see how things are done.

Embrace the BACON.

Hey wait a minute, I'm from California!!! :cry: :oops: :shock: :evil: :D
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Postby goathead » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:01 am

jkisha wrote:
goathead wrote:Welcome Kevan

FR33L0VE wrote:I appreciate your opinion on the fire emissions, but I'd like to keep this thread on topic :]


Wondering if you realize where you are?

Do you enjoy being preached at/to?

So of us have been burning I would guess while you where still in grade school.

Your coming off as a perfect poster child for "We don't give a FUCK how they do it in California."

Come to the Da Bar, sit down have a drink, get to know us, come out, get dusty, see how things are done.

Embrace the BACON.

Hey wait a minute, I'm from California!!! :cry: :oops: :shock: :evil: :D


But you dear JK are a not a Californian, your a BURNER in our eyes.

:lol:
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Postby Donna Matrix » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:22 am

EASY way around all of this...

Get a empty container of your choosing..... buy ice from Arctica.... put ice in container, drink it as it melts. Repeat.

No hauling of heavy water. No worries, ice is potable.


DING... problem solved.
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Postby moonrise » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:27 am

When in Nevada I like to use the term the "C" state, if I find I need to mention the "C' state at all.

Living in a border state region, and sometimes in both states, teaches one these little things.
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Re: The Politics of the Water Bottle Industry

Postby Foxfur » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:26 pm

FR33L0VE wrote:
Foxfur wrote:So you started in the introduce yourself forum, got friendly replies, and then proceded to shit on me in your next post? lol, bit backwards dood! =/

Actually, I think it was somewhere around my 152nd post...
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Postby jkisha » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:17 pm

goathead wrote:
jkisha wrote:
goathead wrote:Welcome Kevan

FR33L0VE wrote:I appreciate your opinion on the fire emissions, but I'd like to keep this thread on topic :]


Wondering if you realize where you are?

Do you enjoy being preached at/to?

So of us have been burning I would guess while you where still in grade school.

Your coming off as a perfect poster child for "We don't give a FUCK how they do it in California."

Come to the Da Bar, sit down have a drink, get to know us, come out, get dusty, see how things are done.

Embrace the BACON.

Hey wait a minute, I'm from California!!! :cry: :oops: :shock: :evil: :D


But you dear JK are a not a Californian, your a BURNER in our eyes.

:lol:

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Postby Ugly Dougly » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:28 pm

moonrise wrote:When in Nevada I like to use the term the "C" state, if I find I need to mention the "C' state at all.

Living in a border state region, and sometimes in both states, teaches one these little things.


Without money from the C-state gamblers, I wonder if you realize what your N state would be like? :)
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Postby goathead » Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:25 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:Without money from the C-state gamblers, I wonder if you realize what your N state would be like? :)


It's not the C-staters in general we have the problem with. It's the C-staters who move here and think that WE should be the same as THEM.
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Postby unjonharley » Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:00 pm

The water supplie line in most US citys are up to 100 years old..

Even if you live in a new part of town.. The water runs through the old town first..

Some of the water mians in Portland Or. are still the wooden ones from way back when.. You may as well be drinking out of the creek.

Plastic tube is nnow the new water lines to your new home.. Or a plastic liner is installed in your old iron water line..

If the water comes out of the woods like so many citys crow about.. Think about the moose that tooka pis in it.. Then the city worker that pissed in it..

What the hell do you think fish do in the water,,

Now shut the F up and drink your plastic F'en water..
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Postby FIGJAM » Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:11 pm

Our well is 900 ft deep, and I bring it in this.

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Postby unjonharley » Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:28 pm

FIGJAM wrote:Our well is 900 ft deep, and I bring it in this.

Image


That would be some old moose piss :twisted:
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Postby FIGJAM » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:54 pm

Prehistoric moose piss is very piquant, bitch!
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Postby Foxfur » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:12 pm

FIGJAM wrote:Prehistoric moose piss is very piquant, bitch!

Put that on a teeshirt and I'll buy it.
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Postby BBadger » Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:40 am

You're really going to abandon plastic bottles because of BPAs? You do know that only certain plastics contain BPAs, namely flexible PVC (type 3 in the recycling symbol), and mixed-type 7 plastics. Even so, the BPAs in type 7 plastic bottles don't leech into water much under normal circumstances. You'd probably need to bake the bottle in the sun for a while to have it do so, which seems pretty stupid in general.

I guess if you're so concerned, you should avoid those crappy Arrowhead bottled water cases at Costco; those bottles are type 7, which could potentially have BPAs. However, you'd be pretty stupid in general to buy that for your water supply, as it's bulky, expensive, and there are better ways to transport water. Most burners are price conscious enough to buy water in larger quantities, such as 2.5 gallon jugs (type 2, HDPE), or bringing their own deflatable plastic water containers (polyethylene, and also BPA-free certified). Those large stiff 5 gallon jugs are made of type 7 mixed plastics. Again, however, under normal conditions the water inside won't pick up any harmful levels of BPAs and you'd probably need to drink many many times that in short periods to even approach the danger threshold.

Also, you also do realize that if you're buying metal water cans, that many are coated with plastics to prevent corrosion? It's the same kind of thing they do with canned goods. Those plastics can contain the BPAs you're trying to avoid, though you'd still need to heat those containers up a bit to cause any problems. I guess you could stick with your wooden bottles, or maybe a gourd? It just seems kind of overkill when you could just look at the recycling symbol on the bottle.

My water bottle of choice is an el cheapo old Gatorade bottle, which is type 1 PETE. It has no lingering taste, it is constructed well, and has a nice wide opening. It is also cheap. I also like Nalgene bottles which supposedly can produce BPAs if you microwave them. I'm not too worried.
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Postby Bob » Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:55 am

Nevada is just another word for Alta California.

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Postby Foxfur » Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:31 am

BBadger wrote:It's the same kind of thing they do with canned goods. Those plastics can contain the BPAs you're trying to avoid, though you'd still need to heat those containers up a bit to cause any problems.

I cook soup in the can over the fire when or offroading.
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Good info Bbadger.

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Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 6:43 am
Location: Banks, Oregon
Burning Since: 2011
Camp Name: 404 Village Not Found

Postby Bob » Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:44 am

Fucking hippies.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam
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Bob
 
Posts: 6762
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:00 am
Location: San Francisco
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: Royaneh

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