repetition of art, art with slight varitations.

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repetition of art, art with slight varitations.

Postby fbcota » Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:54 am

How do you feel about art projects on the Playa that are very similar to projects done in years past by the same artist?

I have kinda been chewing on this subject since I found out that the artist doing Bliss Dance is doing another similar project. A taller woman, same porportions in a more extended pose.

I am conflicted by this. On one side I feel like the first project was such an artistic and technological marvel that it deserves repeating. If the artist can refine the process and make the second statue even more impressive then the first I will be left in amazement.

However, the other side of me thinks: Come on, this is Burning Man, art is supposed to change, be original and unique. At the same time, a bit of jelousy shows through: "What could I do with the same amount of money!" or, "Why repeat the same statue. You have a golden goose, make something that is just as amazing as the first but completely new."

I don't mean to make this about Bliss Dance and its sister project. But it is what started this conflict. I don't think I would mind if the sculpture was a man, or animal, or 2 people in an embrace. At the same time I love the idea of a second massive woman statue, beautiful and near perfect in execution.

I want opinions, like real ones. Not the typical half snark eplaya response. If your going to snark this try a little harder then a one sentence canned response :p.
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Postby Bluemandrew » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:13 am

Some guy keeps building slight variations on the same damn stick figure in the middle of the playa year after year, no one has an issue with that.

But seriously, I think it depends on the art we're talking about. I think a progression to the successive art pieces would make me a lot happier than one that seems to just be a random variation on the subject. I'm not sure how I feel about the sister sculpture to Bliss Dance. I'll have to hold my judgment as I can see both points of view on this one. (a big woman in the skyline both years may feel repetitive I guess.)

Then again, plenty of artists/camps/DJs bring the same dusty worn out stuff year after year with no changes. People still seem to eat it all up.
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Postby FIGJAM » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:37 am

There are many artists that do a series of pieces in a theme one at a time.

If the artist that did Bliss Dance does three or four on the same scale, it could take years, say four.

Then have them all on playa for that fourth year, I think it would be mind blowing. 8)
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Postby oneeyeddick » Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:14 am

you nailed if Figjam !
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:26 am

Pressure to be creative... *sigh*
Are we looking only at fuinded public art or theme camps as well?
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Postby fbcota » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:04 am

Ugly: I suppose your right. Less finger pointing and more doing. Ok, I like it then. He is making a rad sculpture for all of us to see. I do wish more people would take the time to create, anything, regardless of its origins.

Thanks for setting me straight.
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Postby tamarakay » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:15 am

Selfishly, i want him to bring Bliss Dance back so I can see it in person lol but i'll take a larger one with an elongated pose too. The pictures of Bliss absolutely blew me away.
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Re: repetition of art, art with slight varitations.

Postby JohnPaulQuilliard » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:59 am

fbcota wrote:How do you feel about art projects on the Playa that are very similar to projects done in years past by the same artist?


Tars sez "Why you keep deleting posts are you all afraid of ghosts? Ghosts of past that still haunt you? Or do you see the light that brings new?

What I would do is, again, and this is a funny idea. Is go with the classics. Like change the Mona Lisa to the Moaning Lisa. The classic in with orgasmic face.

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Postby Ugly Dougly » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:50 am

So the only sin on the playa is being tedious? Is that what you're trying to say?
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Postby Teo del Fuego » Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:25 pm

repetition can be okay. Every year the recycled art will be new to a lot of people, including those who went the year before and somehow missed it.

Bliss Dance bears a strong resemblance to Passage, (the Mother and Child at 2005's Burn) and something similar has been back every year since. The artist does great work and he or she does seem to change it up every year.

Some things are so cool and unique to the Playa, that I really don't care if they come back relatively unaltered. The Cubatron is one of those things.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:06 pm

If you look at the total output of most artists, you will find themes repeated. And evolving, too. I think it's a natural--most of us have ideas and things we are drawn to. You certainly don't expect a guy (or team, to be realistic) publishes an article on pores in a cell wall absorbing electrolytes to have an article about dinosaur physiology next time round.
Not that we can't get burned out by artists doing much the same thing over and over. I have a few authors that I read early novels by and now that their craft is better and they are getting more acclaim, I just can't pick up the new books--burned out on what remained the same in their work. On the other hand, there are those authors whom I can't forgive for going on to do something I find utterly trite. It's one of the problems with being an artist in the end.
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Postby Dr. Pyro » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:26 pm

FWIW, we have been doing the same "art", in theme camp form, now going on 12 years. Burning Man wouldn't be the same without Barbie Death Camp & Wine Bistro. We never change; evolve, yes, but the basic premise remains the same each and every year. And people love us. Why try to reinvent the wheel? And besides, if (according to BMOrg statistics, which can be specious at best) 50% of the participants each year are newbies, then what difference does it make if you repeat the same thing? It's all new to them. And with the city so large, even wily veterans may go three or four years without seeing all of the camps and art that repeat each year. Seems like a nonissue to me.
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:33 pm

you said that last year, and way better, too...
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Postby flatlander13 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:35 pm

I think that art like Bliss Dance and Barbie Death Camp & Wine Bistro are worth having out at Burning Man every year. Yes, I do put Bliss Dance and Barbie Death Camp in the same level of art…….why…….because they both make me smile.

Being an artist myself, I LOVE art that gets a response from me and it takes a lot for art to get to me. Most art I see is…..well……poop. That’s one of the things I like about Burning Man……you have stuff that’s funded that falls into the good and poop category. You have theme camp stuff that’s really cool or really poopy…….then you have the stuff that is not funded in any way……..some good…….some poopy. You have people who are art just walking around…….you will never see it all…………
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Postby Bob » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:02 pm

Big shrug, and no comment on the funded artists who've been doing the same oversized paperweights decade after decade, and the org functionaries who fluff them.

FWIW I helped establish the Cafe and org shade designs as *intentionally* simple, repetitious, boring and cheap. If anyone has added worthwhile variations since then, I'm sure they've been welcomed. They were meant to be buildable by your average participant with plenty of opportunity for alteration. But maybe that's the difference between art and architecture.
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Postby rodiponer » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:28 pm

I think sometimes the thought isn't finished. When making my walking machine, even though I was enamored the whole time with this specific one, I also kept thinking about a much larger one. With a burn platform on top of it. So that it would be some kind of large apocalyptic beast of burden that would walk the Earth. I kept thinking about how the legs would cast shadows in the flickering light from the fire, and the chassis would turn black and scarred from the heat of the fire...

So maybe one isn't enough. You do one, but then, feel, well, that's almost it, almost the complete thought. But not quite. And maybe they just feel like they have to make another one to get it.

And, secondly, I think some things are hard, and after you do one, you want to do another, even more ambitious one. It looks like that's the case with Bliss Dance.

But, against all of that, I sometimes feel a strong urge to move on to new ideas. I came very close a few weeks ago to leaving my mutant vehicle home, just to have more room in the trailer for other projects. And to be able to scavenge the batteries and solar panels for something new this year. I don't ever want to get too tied down to things I've done before, since it's hard to make new things if your garage is filling up with old things. But some folks contacted me, all excited about what I made last year, and I thought-- I need to bring this thing back at least once more and see if I can get it to stomp around everywhere, or at least break down in front of the DMV instead of halfway to the exit in Kidsville.
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Postby andy » Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:03 pm

Nothing in the world wrong with an artist bringing back a piece of art year after year especially if they add new pieces each year, which means more total art.
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Postby oneeyeddick » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:34 am

I added a third testicle to my MV 2 years ago.
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Postby AntiM » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:19 am

Variations on a theme... artists do it all the time. Explore the concept until they are satisfied, bored, or distracted with a shiny new thou... ooooh, sparkle ponies.
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:12 am

One definition of art is something that is never finished. :D
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Postby snake » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:14 pm

i think because it's near impossible to see all the art and for newbies or people that miss bman every couple, it's good for repeats. plus for others it could be like 'yay!! there's so and so piece! one of my favs'
like it's almost not burningman without the big giant spinning head (nudge, nudge mr. fixit).
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Postby Mojori » Tue May 24, 2011 12:10 am

I think that the Bliss Dance sculpture was quite the tour de force of exacting engineering and aesthetic beauty. It really was quite awesome and such a treat. I would LOVE it if the artist would someday grace the playa with an equally impressive and lovingly rendered sculpture of a naked man.
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Postby fbcota » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:56 am

I have to admit, I am pretty happy now that Truth and Beauty sounds like it will be a climbable frame :). I take back all my shit talking "I'm a jelous artist" shit.

Ooooooh, I wonder if I can say shit more. I was thinking of just repeating shit over and over again but shit, I think that's cheating. Shit!
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Postby Bob » Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:48 am

Isn't 'climbable' a rather cheap form of interaction?

I mean, unless it's kinetic art and there's a chance of her flicking you off when you reach her nipples.
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Postby Snow » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:42 am

Bob wrote:Isn't 'climbable' a rather cheap form of interaction?

I mean, unless it's kinetic art and there's a chance of her flicking you off when you reach her nipples.
now THAT would be amazing!
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