This should not be allowed in our city.

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

This should not be allowed in our city.

Postby MoreJadedThanThou » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:20 am

Here's something that you guys should find interesting that still has me pretty pissed off at BMorg, and I for one will continue to raise a stink about it until it is addressed. It is a significant reason behind our theme camp not returning to the playa this year.

The problem started at Burning Man 2009. Specifically Build Week of Burning Man 2009. Everyone was happy as a clam, hard at work constructing their contributions to our fair city. Except suddenly, the BMorg folks began going camp to camp, informing us that if we needed to leave the city during Build Week (which, having many more loads left, we had to do many times), we would have to pay the re-entry fee. Before the event STARTED.

Now, the re-entry fee makes sense. We don't want people coming in, snapping some photos, and then going back to Gerlach to try to find a room. Or leaving every day to go shopping. The re-entry fee helps discourage spectators. But this was now put into effect when the only people in the city were already putting significant amounts of their own time and money into making something for the event, often with further trips out of the city required to finish their projects. They needed to go get more supplies? Fuck 'em. Make them pay.

Now that was annoying, and as far as I know was reversed because everyone got up in arms about it. What has NOT been reversed, however, was the change that BMorg made shortly before Build Week 2010. This was when they kindly informed us that whereas the previous arrangement for truckers carrying theme camp equipment was to take their credit card information and not charge them if they were out of the city within three hours (a fair and useful system), now we just had to buy them a ticket. Even though they WEREN'T ATTENDING THE EVENT. The reasons given were this, quoted from their e-mail:

. To find a better balance between de-commodification and radical self-reliance.
. To encourage communal effort and hopefully lessen the overall environmental impact of our event.
. "Refundable" vendor tickets created a disproportionate drag on our staffing resources and were frequently abused.
. Expedited vendor access at entry reduces wait times for everyone.

No details were given about how the previous system was abused, nor any kind of logical reasoning explaining how not giving us our money back would make the process faster, ease stress on their staff, or make Burning Man greener. This is the Burning Man Organization building on a pattern, a pattern of punishing those that are contributing most to the event simply to line their own pockets.

It looks like now we're down to 9 Principles.
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:24 am

Welcome to Eplaya!
Please to visit PAGE TWO.
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:26 am

i would have to agree with this...

they fucked us too at Root Society, obviously figuring the deep pockets wouldn't feel it.


had to buy THREE tickets for the 3 truckers, plus pay multiple re-entry fees.


nothing was said at the time, well, because it's burning man, and we had better things to do.

but yes, this needs to be addressed....it's not like we're sneaking fucking hippies in with the 18 wheelers..
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Postby MoreJadedThanThou » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:27 am

Ugly Dougly wrote:Welcome to Eplaya!


Thanks! I've actually been on here for a while, but made a throwaway account for this post since a few people know me on here. I don't want to get marked as an undesirable.
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Postby ygmir » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:42 am

MoreJadedThanThou wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote:Welcome to Eplaya!


Thanks! I've actually been on here for a while, but made a throwaway account for this post since a few people know me on here. I don't want to get marked as an undesirable.


and here, I thought we recruited undesirables.
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Postby ibdave » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:48 am

ygmir wrote:
and here, I thought we recruited undesirables.


you Sir are the ring leader..... 8) :shock: 8)
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Postby Dustdevil » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:26 am

MoreJadedThanThou wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote:Welcome to Eplaya!


Thanks! I've actually been on here for a while, but made a throwaway account for this post since a few people know me on here. I don't want to get marked as an undesirable.


Dear Undesirable,

If this is your opinion and you believe you are correct, why does it matter what others think. It seems to me that such a view point would carry more weight with someone who is known.
Perhaps you would be better off not worrying so much about what others think. I certainly don't agree with everything I read here, but when I read a post I don't agree with from someone with history, I will give it more consideration than a post from a newbie.

Just sayin
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Postby MoreJadedThanThou » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:43 am

Dustdevil wrote:
MoreJadedThanThou wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote:Welcome to Eplaya!


Thanks! I've actually been on here for a while, but made a throwaway account for this post since a few people know me on here. I don't want to get marked as an undesirable.


Dear Undesirable,

If this is your opinion and you believe you are correct, why does it matter what others think. It seems to me that such a view point would carry more weight with someone who is known.
Perhaps you would be better off not worrying so much about what others think. I certainly don't agree with everything I read here, but when I read a post I don't agree with from someone with history, I will give it more consideration than a post from a newbie.

Just sayin


Who I am shouldn't factor into the equation, should it? The facts are there, confirmed by Simon. I have seen a close friend thrown out of the Rangers on false premises for speaking up against decisions made by management and I don't feel like experiencing the same thing myself, being a volunteer at the event as well.
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:49 am

I ain't Afraid. I speak truth to Power.


and besides DRE OWNS larry's ass now.
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Postby ibdave » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:54 am

MoreJadedThanThou wrote:
Dustdevil wrote:
MoreJadedThanThou wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote:Welcome to Eplaya!


Thanks! I've actually been on here for a while, but made a throwaway account for this post since a few people know me on here. I don't want to get marked as an undesirable.


Dear Undesirable,

If this is your opinion and you believe you are correct, why does it matter what others think. It seems to me that such a view point would carry more weight with someone who is known.
Perhaps you would be better off not worrying so much about what others think. I certainly don't agree with everything I read here, but when I read a post I don't agree with from someone with history, I will give it more consideration than a post from a newbie.

Just sayin


Who I am shouldn't factor into the equation, should it? The facts are there, confirmed by Simon. I have seen a close friend thrown out of the Rangers on false premises for speaking up against decisions made by management and I don't feel like experiencing the same thing myself, being a volunteer at the event as well.


Have to say that I agree with your keeping a lid on it... People think that the Playa is a Utopia when in fact the system that keeps it going for the month on the Playa is more like the real world if not worse with petty-ness... Lot's of he said she said bullshit.... Last year from what I heard was way worse with the last min change's to camp locations and the early pass fiasco. It's not perfect and it's not Utopia, but treat us like adult's and you'll get treat the same....yes? 8) 8) 8)
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Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:37 am

Simon's real sig line?

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Postby Simon of the Playa » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:11 pm

obviously crypto, they dont absorb eplaya thru their pores the way you and i do...

but then again, we're super freaks, they wouldn't understand.
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Postby MoreJadedThanThou » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:52 pm



Well I and the other coordinator for my theme camp have decided not to bring the camp back this year, and I would encourage other theme camps to do the same. If they want to put a fine on contribution to the event, they can find someone else to contribute.
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Postby Isotopia » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:54 pm

. To find a better balance between de-commodification and radical self-reliance.
. To encourage communal effort and hopefully lessen the overall environmental impact of our event.
. "Refundable" vendor tickets created a disproportionate drag on our staffing resources and were frequently abused.
. Expedited vendor access at entry reduces wait times for everyone.


It's called BORGspeak and this new language is growing exponentially.
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nice try, but you can't make me...

Postby Simon of the Playa » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:56 pm

well, i'm certainly backing the fuck out of this thread as to avoid stepping in any dogshit...


can't we all just get along, after all, it IS the Apocadiscolypse...
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Re: nice try, but you can't make me...

Postby MoreJadedThanThou » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:36 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:well, i'm certainly backing the fuck out of this thread as to avoid stepping in any dogshit...


Smart man! I've been watching too much footage from Egypt and Libya. It's got me all riled up. ;)
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:44 pm

i keep extra tv's around so i can smash them....

it's very satisfying and cathartic....there are PLENTY by the side of the road as everybody switches to Hypnotic D[size7]irect [/size]Transfer Vehicle..

i like bricks, but you can get very creative with wrought iron for making what i like to call "Mr. Smashy and his pal ThickBrick"....

it's mixed media.

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Postby jkisha » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:48 pm

MoreJadedThanThou wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote:Welcome to Eplaya!


Thanks! I've actually been on here for a while, but made a throwaway account for this post since a few people know me on here. I don't want to get marked as an undesirable.


COWARD!

Plus, the mods can tell who you are anyway.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:31 pm

MoreJadedThanThou wrote:


Well I and the other coordinator for my theme camp have decided not to bring the camp back this year, and I would encourage other theme camps to do the same. If they want to put a fine on contribution to the event, they can find someone else to contribute.

My guess is that there are a lot of theme camps that wont do that--they do what the do out of love of doing it (and let me say here that I don't think you're any different). Worse, I suspect there are enough people who would love the opportunity for placement that the llc may not even really notice--until after the event, when they wonder why so many camps weren't "ready for prime time." Although, with the the whole thing a couple fo years ago with a reduced number of theme camps because of the blocks that were too long, there may be enough to fill the gaps quite well. I would certainly let the llc know why you are not applying. because you are right, it is a tax on those who bring large camp infrastructure and they are risking losing those and artists who simply can afford to shell out for those tickets. FUBARed as teh early entry pass system seems to be, I don't really want to say that there should be some sort of adaption of that to camps with truckers. However, I think that makes a lot more sense, if the bugs weren't already in the system.
I suggest you think of things other people can do. I don't know how many people are willing to go that far, but if there are other sorts of actions to be taken, they might allow people to bring their camps in, and do something to carry a message.
I wonder what a black out day would be like. If no large theme camps were open all thursday...
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Postby Major Krash » Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:17 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:...I wonder what a black out day would be like. If no large theme camps were open all thursday...


Oooohhh! A protest! Like the BMorg2 venture...
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Postby Isotopia » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:24 pm

I don't want to get marked as an undesirable.


You are fucking kidding us. Right?
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Postby Kinetik V » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:43 pm

Wow. Someone makes a VERY valid point, then hides behind a sock account and expects credibility. Yeah, count me in on the believer bus. Glory Hallelujah!

Seriously, post from your real account and be done with it. If the org fucked up call them out on it. It really is that simple.
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:05 am

larry has spies everywhere...


worse than the stasi ever was...Ever had a Smiley face Parasol shoved up your ass by an angry Lady Bee?


yeah....kinda curdles the blood just thinking about it, huh...
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Postby Trishntek » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:18 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:larry has spies everywhere...


worse than the stasi ever was...Ever had a Smiley face Parasol shoved up your ass by an angry Lady Bee?


yeah....kinda curdles the blood just thinking about it, huh...


well,,,,, that kinda turns me on :oops:

All this seems to me a manipulation of the ORG to keep camps smaller. Maybe they foresee the Walmartization squeezing out small organic camps? Not saying I agree, I'm just making the observation of possible motive. Maybe it is just their way of saying they do not want mega-theme camps in the city at all? Or maybe it is simply a great example of "taxing the rich".
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Postby flatlander13 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:30 am

You guys do remember that Burning Man is an event that you purchase a ticket to attend; not unlike a football game. You buy a ticket from BMorg and they let you into Black Rock City. So, really it’s not OUR city it’s THERE city. They mark out the city, fill in some infrastructure, tell theme camps where to sit, tell you where to place your art, created some rules to follow…..which are different rules than those most of us are used to…….but they are still rules.

Knowing all of that, I have to wonder why people are surprised when BMorg changes the rules. Like any other event that you pay to get into, the people who run the show can change the rules whenever they want to suit their needs. Does this make it right that they change the rules and charge you more money? That’s up to you to decide.

I wonder what Burning Man would be like if we didn’t have any theme camps? Most theme camps I’ve encountered have been populated by people so busy sniffing their own butts and the camp really didn’t enhance Burning Man……..they were just another form of clique that showed how fucking cool they were.
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Postby mdmf007 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:51 am

jkisha wrote:
MoreJadedThanThou wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote:Welcome to Eplaya!


Thanks! I've actually been on here for a while, but made a throwaway account for this post since a few people know me on here. I don't want to get marked as an undesirable.


COWARD!

Plus, the mods can tell who you are anyway.


Yup - I know whos behind the curtain.
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:06 am

i have a feeling the ip is coming up Cambridge, Mass...

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Postby jkisha » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:36 am

Trishntek wrote:
Simon of the Playa wrote:larry has spies everywhere...


worse than the stasi ever was...Ever had a Smiley face Parasol shoved up your ass by an angry Lady Bee?


yeah....kinda curdles the blood just thinking about it, huh...


well,,,,, that kinda turns me on :oops:

All this seems to me a manipulation of the ORG to keep camps smaller. Maybe they foresee the Walmartization squeezing out small organic camps? Not saying I agree, I'm just making the observation of possible motive. Maybe it is just their way of saying they do not want mega-theme camps in the city at all? Or maybe it is simply a great example of "taxing the rich".


Or maybe the large theme camps cause more problems for the BMORG, like MOOP, playa scars, etc., and the extra "tax" helps to mitigate the damage and assure the existence of the event.
Which is exactly why the rich need to be taxed.
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Postby Bob » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:11 am

I'd levy a ticket fee plus a non-participation tax, import tariffs, and reentry tolls. Maybe an exodus toll, too.

But zees eez ZO FEELTHY & BORING TO ME.

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Postby Simon of the Playa » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:23 am

i know, RIGHT?


trying to play cat and mouse with a goddamn tiger in the room.



you'll all get eaten if you continue to smell like fresh meat...
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