Any logical explanations why Burning Man cost have gone up?

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Postby TomServo » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:30 pm

phoon wrote:I think festivals across the board are jacking up their prices. It seems like the trendy thing to do, I guess. It's going to make a lot of people change their minds and not go anymore. It's just too expensive, you know?


Which makes Burning Man a sustainable event. That said, who pays for Burning Man? We do! We don't have sponsors, and I get the impression the BLM is taking advantage uf us, but We pay for everything! And, as Manna pointed out, its still cheaper than a concert!


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Postby Leo » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:25 pm

Some people know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Value is subjective and is in the eye of the beholder. If Burning Man tickets were $500.00, I would still consider the price of admission to be a great value. If you don't think the price of admission is a good value, then the solution is simple. STAY HOME AND STOP YOUR WHINING!
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:48 pm

GAME.SET.MATCH.


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Postby This Woman » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:29 pm

So, several logical theories and explanations about the price of tickets, which responds beautifully to the thread title.

Also a bunch of quit-yer-whining comments from flamers that came here just to whine themselves about people that have questions about ticket prices. Why so defensive, hmmm?

Whether you want to call it whining or not, when you raise ticket prices by 1000% in however long a time Ugly’s been coming, then you are excising your poor population. Essentially, that’s fine, go for it. Burning Man is probably one of the few festivals that even has a poor population to excise. But own it, because that’s what’s happening and that’s what you are defending. The cost of wood, etc., has not gone up 1000% since Ugly started coming to Burning Man.
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:00 pm

first of all, you're math is way fucking off. 1000%?

where in god's name did you get that figure?


and quite frankly, if you look at the price of movie tickets in 1996 and compare it to now, or take cigarettes for that matter, you will find the price increase to be greater, proportionally than burning man tickets.

so, it's quite natural, just like menopause.

there, does that help explain things for ya'?
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Postby gyre » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:04 pm

Just because prices go up on something irrelevant, how do you rationalize it as being reasonable, much less connect it to burning man?

In spite of cost drops on most things, corporations continue to jack up prices, claiming inflation.
Haagendaz just did a huge bait and switch price jump, as have most ice creams.
Most orange juice just got smaller, another bait and switch.
Economists say no justification.

Concert and film prices only prove how stupid some people are.
You're not winning any points with me with that nonsense.

All I'm hearing is a reason to drop burning man, like I did the overpriced theaters and concerts.
Or was that your point?

The things I need to buy right now are getting lower all the time, only propped up by steel scrap values.
Houses are dropping like a stone here, in spite of the usual sunny horseshit from the realtors.

Is the argument to pay for something else that feels like putting a stupid sign on my forehead?

Try another argument.

Did you know that 380 ammo has dropped by more than 50% since last year?
More relevant than concert prices.

By the way, it doesn't cost me thousands of dollars to attend most concerts.
Does that figure in?
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Postby TomServo » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:14 pm

gyre wrote:By the way, it doesn't cost me thousands of dollars to attend most concerts.
Does that figure in?


I don't think Manna said thousands, but how many concerts last 7 days?
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Postby gyre » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:24 pm

Been to some.

But you're just pointing out the lack of any connection between the two things.
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Postby TomServo » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:35 pm

I might pay 500, but if it ever goes over 400, its time to start looking for a new playa.
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Postby gyre » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:57 pm

If I wasn't paying for 4500 miles of transit, I'm sure I would be more tolerant of ticket prices.

I notice people in reno seem unfazed by ticket costs.

We already have few people from the east side of the country.
Consider how much entertainment is lost with that.

It's sort of like my favorite racing paper.
Cheap enough to advertise in, that there were hundreds of fascinating bargains.
Most bought it for the classifieds, like me.

They went upscale, lost the ads, and the entertainment value.
Also lost their niche to the competition.

Best to remember that the llc is not entertainment, only the "spectators" are.
Ticket costs come right out of the entertainment budget, one way or another, especially when people stay home.

I haven't run the numbers.
But I've worked on enough venues to know that costs should go down with higher numbers.
It may be a reasonable price.

I just know I have no inclination to pay over $300 for a ticket, unless you're shipping my ass to another country.
It isn't even a decision.
If my travel budget was $100, I might be as flexible as all the cheerleaders living close by.
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Postby gyre » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:06 pm

Does anyone want me to calculate how much I could sell tickets for a concert, if I don't actually provide a show, only the venue for it?

I can actually find that out.

And I know that shows are not selling this year.
The industry is crashing and rapidly scaling back costs and prices.
The predatory venue rents had better get real too, or they'll be out in the cold too.

Few concerts here already.
The casinos pull all the business.
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Postby This Woman » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:44 am

Follow along, Simon:

UglyDougly said: BBadger, when I first went to Burning Man, tickets started at $25 if you got in early. So, where else do we have 1000% inflation outside of Brazil?

I didnt do any math, I just went with what he said. I don't know if prices have increased 1000% since 1996, but I do know they've increased at an exhorbitant, unjustified rate.
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Postby This Woman » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:53 am

I live in Reno, and I am fazed. The ticket is not my biggest expense, but it's significant. The sacrifice will come from what I give to BRC once I'm there.

You make an excellent point about the ticket paying only for the venue and not the show, Gyre, thank you. I'm a spectator that adds to the show - where's my share in this windfall?

One thing I’ll be paying with this ticket – clean up. It’s ridiculous for a special event llc to expect spectators to clean the venue when they are charging these prices for entry.
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Postby jerroc » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:42 am

Larry like money. Me like Burning man.

I DON'T SEE THE FUCKING PROBLEM.

I have my limmit at $350. I do wish there would be more money given for art grants though.
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:24 pm

It’s ridiculous for a special event llc to expect spectators to clean the venue when they are charging these prices for entry.



LEAVE NO FUCKING TRACE.



or at least do your damndest not to.


jumping jesus on a pogo stick.


it's my hot, dusty, windy, slightly radioactive Land...It's Yours too.

it's all of ours.

DUH.






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Postby This Woman » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:33 pm

I do clean up after myself,

SIMON OF THE LOUD AND SELF RIGHTEOUS.

and I never said I didn't. What I won't do is volunteer to clean up after your burnier than thou ass.

You may resume your ridiculous acrimony.
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Postby The CO » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:35 pm

I have a hard time giving a crap about the people & threads that show up every year like this. If you (the royal you, addressing the complainers) have not had at least a tiny bit of experience in running & managing any sort of festival, you don't have much of a valid opinion to me.

I run a small (150-250 max. attendance) 3-day event in Oregon. We're entering our twelfth year, and we might have raise our ticket prices from $30 to $35 this year. And, I'm sure that people are going to bitch about it, just like they did in years past when had to do the same thing.

People complained when it was free and they had to use a slit trench to shit in. So we rented JoTS and had to charge a little $$. They complained about not having electricity, so we rented and purchased generators and electrical distribution gear & had to charge a little more $$.

We got large enough that we could no longer squat on public land; the forest service knew about us (some of them came to the event for fun) & said we had to get permits. Permits for public land & rental of private land cost money, and in turn lead to more cost for things like insurance, and emergency response plans, and having medics on sight for emergencies. So the ticket price goes up a little more. And some people bitch about it and accuse the organizers of lining their pockets with cash, all while blissfully unaware of what it really takes to make an event happen.

We (royal we, people that manage events large and small) do our best to balance all of that and still manage to put the event on. Some of the time, we manage to make a profit. Most of the time, we do it for no financial compensation of our own, just because we want to see the event continue. Other times, we lose money from our pockets.

So every time a thread shows up like this, I have just sit back and laugh & laugh. Complain away. If the members of the board of the BOrg keep managing to run the event in a way that makes me want to go, I'm gonna keep on attending & not give a tinkers damn how they spend money. If they start running it in a way I don't like, I'll stop going.

(And I pissed in the kool-aid while no one was looking)


**Edit**
I sound like an asshole up there. I am, but that's beside the point. I should have included something along these lines:

If you don't like the way any event (including BM) is run, you have the power to change it. You have to get involved, sometimes deeply involved with the management. The great thing is, you can do this. Most festivals will welcome the opportunity to get more dedicated people involved in the core group. It allows for distribution of the work load, making everyones job a little easier.

Events that don't welcome new voices don't last. I'm currently working on taking our little event and forming an LLC for it, for the same kind of reasons the Borg (and other events) did. Part of that will be the creation of a board of directors, and if their decision is to oust me as management for the good of the event, so be it. Festivals have to evolve, but they can only do so through the effort of the people that want to see them evolve.
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:38 pm

i'm speaking for the playa here, and not myself.


and thank you for cleaning up after yourself.


You make an excellent point about the ticket paying only for the venue and not the show, Gyre, thank you. I'm a spectator that adds to the show - where's my share in this windfall?


anyone?

feel free, i'm kinda busy and need someone else have fun with this.
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Postby This Woman » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:56 pm

That's not a quote Simon, because you emphasized that which I did not emphasize. And if you think I really meant to make anything other than a point - like money or some kind of renumeration - then you're as clueless as you are self righteous.

You actually think you speak for the playa.

To CO, thanks for at least including some legitimate info in your complaint of complaining. But there are a few people on this thread with experience in special events. If you have knowledge of something I find it's better to share it than just shout down the people that might be seeking it or benefit from it.
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:26 pm

um, i can only actually speak for the dust. i dont speak for the playa.

the playa is where the dust is.

im dust, you're dust and to the dust we shall all return, in more ways than one.


this zen moment brought to you by a little debbie snack cake sugar rush.

so good.
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Postby LLQchasm » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:36 pm

It's a population and numbers problem. High populations bring all sorts of regulations because of the problems they cause. If anyone is getting rich, it is those at the very top (above the LLC at the state level). Those who write the laws to require insurance for events like this get a piece, but everybody who complains causes a scare and those at the LLC level think (I'd better get insurance to cover every possible situation and pay off everybody who has power to shut it down) = ticket prices go up.
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:17 pm

Desert Bandits!

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Please to visit PAGE TWO.
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Postby jerroc » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:05 pm

I don't even know how to respond to this shit anymore. This has been an issue for many many many conversations. Buy the ticket or don't. BMorg makes a bunch of money from this event for no other reason than greed. If it bothers you that's much don't buy a ticket.

Is there a topic we can start to direct people to so they can get informed about the cost and logistics of BM. Some people seem to think this is some sort of concert or catered party. Would help if there was a single area of good info for people to check out and get informed.
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Postby The CO » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:52 am

jerroc wrote:Would help if there was a single area of good info for people to check out and get informed.


It's called the survival guide, afterburn report, & jack rabbit speaks.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:04 pm

The CO wrote:
jerroc wrote:Would help if there was a single area of good info for people to check out and get informed.


It's called the survival guide, afterburn report, & jack rabbit speaks.

If it were anyone but you, CO, I'd remind you that's a triparate source.
Tripirate?
Triparakeet?
Tryceratops?

Some'n' like that.
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Postby ZeroandOne » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:23 pm

Trinary.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:37 pm

jerroc wrote:...BMorg makes a bunch of money from this event for no other reason than greed...

This statement is dubious at best.
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Postby The CO » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:28 am

This Woman wrote:If you have knowledge of something I find it's better to share it than just shout down the people that might be seeking it or benefit from it.


My apologies, I did not mean to shout anyone down. I was trying to point out that is a tricky game running any size event, and that if people don't like how it's run, they have the ability to work on changing it.

theCryptofishist wrote:If it were anyone but you, CO, I'd remind you that's a triparate source.


Busted. But all three items listed are great collections of information, and address many of the issues people say they "didn't know about".
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Postby mdmf007 » Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:17 pm

Like said above, normally with more people economy of scale will help defray per person costs.

But at hte same time BMORG is facing issues attributed to more people. Lack of infrastructure, moving offices, more permanent payrolls, capital outlay for land, development, etc.

The BMORG was talking about going not for profit. When that does the books will be open to everyone. You can then see how much is spent on pens pencils, poopers, rents, payroll, legal fees, etc.

I figure its a sweet value for what I pay. Party like its 1999.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:18 pm

The CO wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:If it were anyone but you, CO, I'd remind you that's a triparate source.


Busted. But all three items listed are great collections of information, and address many of the issues people say they "didn't know about".

Meh, I just like gaining the occasional point. I didn't mean anything by it.
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