What does BRC LLC do for the event?

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Postby gyre » Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:29 pm

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Postby 1durphul » Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:58 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:?????????


And I did base my understanding of your experience of moderation on your narrative of some.


My narrative was not complete, I left things out on purpose. I really feel it is best not to stir that hornets nest. That was why it was incomplete.

^^^ Constructed that sentence while healing in wow heroic random.

Basically, it's been two years. Let's just let it go ok? Feelings could still be hurt, people angered, etc...
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i feel better, how 'bout you?

Postby Simon of the Playa » Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:26 pm

please, let me pick at this scab for you.



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Re: i feel better, how 'bout you?

Postby 1durphul » Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:26 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:please, let me pick at this scab for you.



simon it isn't my feelings or anger I'm worried about.
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:58 pm

collateral damage.


my apologies to the innocents.
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Postby LLQchasm » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:11 pm

An LLC is a Limited Liability Company which is usually private. The main reason for having an LLC is in its name, limiting your liability. If it was Larry Harvey's event and not BRC LLC, then anything that goes wrong is Larry's liability. By setting up the LLC, Larry Harvey cannot be held personally liable for wrongdoing of the entity. What this means is that lawsuits attributed to what happens at BM would be directed at BRC LLC and not its founder.

I know because I own a Nevada business and it is an LLC which I had my lawyers set up. It is a way of protecting personal assets from being attached to lawsuits brought on in the course of doing business. All that is ever risked is the assets of the company. Under this structure BRC is liable and Larry Harvey is an "employee", usually called managers or managing members. You wouldn't think that as an employee of Walmart, that your assets could be seized in the case of wrongdoing of your employer? That is the main purpose of the LLC. There are of course exceptions where someone can be held personally liable if they do not comply with legal operations, such as mixing personal and business finances, certain criminal activity, etc (this is known as "piercing the corporate veil").

If you want to participate in the LLC, ask them how to become a member. There will be something called "Articles of Incorporation" which lays out the rules for the LLC which has rules for membership. My guess (not certain about this) is that it is an S-Corporation which keeps funds that remain within corporate bank accounts tax free until the time someone is paid. If the funds go into this type of account, then no one is getting rich until taxes are paid, it sits in limbo waiting for liability and corporate expenses and taxes are paid when payroll is done.
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Postby Lord Of Ruin » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:05 pm

1durphul wrote:
Simon of the Playa wrote:"ASK NOT WHAT THE BRC LLC CAN DO FOR YOU, ASK WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THE BRC LLC"


duh...


now go take your geritol.



Unfortunately there is nothing I can personally do to make the LLC do simple math.

For example here are a few sample numbers. The Borg undoubtedly has the real numbers available to them :
1. Gate inspections take on average 5 minutes per vehicle.
2. Monday expects approximately 10,000 vehicles to be inspected.

Now, let's do SIMPLE math using those two numbers:
1. 5 (mins avg) x 10,000 (vehicles) = 50,000 minutes of time needed for inspections on Monday.
2. 50,000 minutes/60 = approx 830 hours.
3. 830 hours/ 24 hours = ~34 lanes operating 24 hours a day.

How many lanes did they have last year? 10? 15? Is it any wonder entry on Monday and Tuesday took 5 hours?

Simple math, with simple and obvious results. If they don't have the volunteers they need to use the ticket money 25,000 additional participants has given them since they built the original 10-15 gates to build more gates, and pay minimum wage to locals for 2 days of work. 400-600 hours x 7/hr = a grand total expenditure of $2,100-$2,800. Hardly a bank breaker, and it'd make a HUGE difference to the participants who lose an entire day from their event waiting in line.


Ok...where do I start here?

First, your math isn't accurate at all. There are only 8 lanes plus one exit/emergency services lane. All transactions do not take 5 minutes. We do not process 10k in within the first public open day, although we may this year. We run multiple crews per lane...normally 3 to 4 crews per lane for opening weekend/night. That means, in essence, you have 28 lanes "processing" people and then admitting them.

By far the thing that takes the most time is the search. And a remarkable number of people do not HELP or prepare for the search. Even repeat attendees. It's like they're bewildered that we'd even ask.

The problem is not solely a function of the number of lanes and the speed at which we can search.

There is a two-lane road with variable speed limits feeding the event entrance. Gate road then must accommodate people that are trying to make it to willcall, and back out into the lanes. If it's opening night, likewise we're losing a couple of the lanes to processing in the people from the stack lot because they thought it'd be cool to come on in early.

As others have said, instead of focusing on "not helping a for profit corporation" why don't you help your COMMUNITY you are so protective of and come help? We'd love to have you help us reduce this time.
The fox provides for himself, but God provides for the lion - W. Blake (attribution corrected)
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Postby VeganChoirGirl » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:10 pm

Lord Of Ruin wrote:
1durphul wrote:
Simon of the Playa wrote:"ASK NOT WHAT THE BRC LLC CAN DO FOR YOU, ASK WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THE BRC LLC"


duh...


now go take your geritol.



Unfortunately there is nothing I can personally do to make the LLC do simple math.

For example here are a few sample numbers. The Borg undoubtedly has the real numbers available to them :
1. Gate inspections take on average 5 minutes per vehicle.
2. Monday expects approximately 10,000 vehicles to be inspected.

Now, let's do SIMPLE math using those two numbers:
1. 5 (mins avg) x 10,000 (vehicles) = 50,000 minutes of time needed for inspections on Monday.
2. 50,000 minutes/60 = approx 830 hours.
3. 830 hours/ 24 hours = ~34 lanes operating 24 hours a day.

How many lanes did they have last year? 10? 15? Is it any wonder entry on Monday and Tuesday took 5 hours?

Simple math, with simple and obvious results. If they don't have the volunteers they need to use the ticket money 25,000 additional participants has given them since they built the original 10-15 gates to build more gates, and pay minimum wage to locals for 2 days of work. 400-600 hours x 7/hr = a grand total expenditure of $2,100-$2,800. Hardly a bank breaker, and it'd make a HUGE difference to the participants who lose an entire day from their event waiting in line.


Ok...where do I start here?

First, your math isn't accurate at all. There are only 8 lanes plus one exit/emergency services lane. All transactions do not take 5 minutes. We do not process 10k in within the first public open day, although we may this year. We run multiple crews per lane...normally 3 to 4 crews per lane for opening weekend/night. That means, in essence, you have 28 lanes "processing" people and then admitting them.

By far the thing that takes the most time is the search. And a remarkable number of people do not HELP or prepare for the search. Even repeat attendees. It's like they're bewildered that we'd even ask.

The problem is not solely a function of the number of lanes and the speed at which we can search.

There is a two-lane road with variable speed limits feeding the event entrance. Gate road then must accommodate people that are trying to make it to willcall, and back out into the lanes. If it's opening night, likewise we're losing a couple of the lanes to processing in the people from the stack lot because they thought it'd be cool to come on in early.

As others have said, instead of focusing on "not helping a for profit corporation" why don't you help your COMMUNITY you are so protective of and come help? We'd love to have you help us reduce this time.


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Postby Ugly Dougly » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:24 pm

As I recall, the LLC have this tiny little art project, you may have heard of it. It's in the desert and involves burning.

And they'll stop what they're doing just as soon as you stop going to Burning Man.

How bout you like dat?
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Postby 1durphul » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:30 pm

Lord Of Ruin wrote:
Ok...where do I start here?

First, your math isn't accurate at all.




Like I said, my numbers were sample numbers. I wasn't attempting to represent them as the real numbers, I know the BRC LLC does have access to the real numbers though since they use computer system in the gate kiosks.

Lord Of Ruin wrote: There are only 8 lanes plus one exit/emergency services lane. All transactions do not take 5 minutes. We do not process 10k in within the first public open day, although we may this year. We run multiple crews per lane...normally 3 to 4 crews per lane for opening weekend/night. That means, in essence, you have 28 lanes "processing" people and then admitting them.


That is really smart having the 3-4 crews at the 8 gates, although I don't think on Monday afternoon this year there were 3-4 cars depth of checks going on simultaneously. There are limitations with this multi-team multiple car inspection system which is that if one car is a problem then you have only 7 lanes operating until the problem is resolved.

Lord Of Ruin wrote:By far the thing that takes the most time is the search. And a remarkable number of people do not HELP or prepare for the search. Even repeat attendees. It's like they're bewildered that we'd even ask.


Please do start a thread and educate us. I don't think I've read anything anywhere saying how we can help you guys do your job faster and more efficiently. I honestly would be interested in reading it as I'm one of the people not trying to break any rules when I enter.

Lord Of Ruin wrote:The problem is not solely a function of the number of lanes and the speed at which we can search.

There is a two-lane road with variable speed limits feeding the event entrance. Gate road then must accommodate people that are trying to make it to willcall, and back out into the lanes. If it's opening night, likewise we're losing a couple of the lanes to processing in the people from the stack lot because they thought it'd be cool to come on in early.


Clearly there is complexity involved in this, but a complex problem doesn't always require a complex solution, sometimes simple solutions work for complex problems.

Lord, THANK YOU SO MUCH for what I consider the single most reasoned, thought out, and considerate response in this thread. I felt respected by you, and appreciate that greatly. Thank you.

I do intend on considering volunteering once the LLC has made the switch to non-profit, which I understand is something they are currently considering.
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Postby thisisthatwhichis » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:33 pm

Geez, build a piece of art or contribute back with a Theme Camp and get early entry..... Only takes me about 1/2 hour at the gate...........


Or Not, I'll take some nice Blue cheese and crackers with the whine.......... 8)
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:37 pm

thisisthatwhichis wrote:...contribute...8)

You can't scare me with your big words. ;)
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Postby This Woman » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:37 am

Cryptofish said of 1derful: You can dish it out, but you can't take it,

Please show me where he/she can't take it, I didnt see that at all. Petty.


Lord Of Ruin - thanks for the info. It sounds to me like a few fast track lanes might help things out mightily. I don't know exactly what parameters could be set to fast track a vehicle though, perhaps something to do with its searchability.
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