Liability insurance, Lawsuits and Injury...

Liability insurance, Lawsuits and Injury...

Postby fogg4444 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:27 pm

I'm working with the Sundial Tower project. We are curious what the lawsuit danger is for other artists. Do you buy insurance or just chance it?

Suppose an intoxicated person falls off our tower. If he or his family decide to sue for injury caused by our project, we have no defense. I'm not ready to get sued for millions and it's going to be very difficult to get insurance to cover something like this.

Apparently Burning Man does not cover artists either.

What do you guys do?
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Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:36 pm

It's definitely worth looking into. I don't know what it runs ya, but if there's a serious injury and the party has insurance the insurance company will strongly hint that there should be a lawsuit.

It's probably a good idea for participants to get trip insurance as well. I forget to mention that, so this is a good time for me to chime in with that.
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Postby BAS » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:23 pm

My guess is that most people just chance it, but I would be curious to know what the answer is. (I'd like to build something if I ever get to go again, although maybe not that ambitious.)

I'm curious about how many artists have been sued by folks who got injured on or near their projects. I know that the ticket does say that the attendee assumes all risks, but I don't know how well that would actually hold up in court.
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Postby moonrise » Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:01 am

There's an eplayan named MissNev (or maybe it's This Woman)

One of them posts about insurance, yes she is an agent but a long time burner and her posts consist of adivce only.
I PM'd her, she was helpful.
She mentioned: art cars, art, camps, barcamps, foodcamps, you name it...if you have any assets, um, you might wanna have some coverage.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Huh, Fishy mentioned trip insurance...

Travel?
or
Tripping?
or
Tripping?

Lmfao!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I got the care flight program/insurance, $55 bux for a year.
Saves ya $5,000 to 8,500 in deductible...ambulance or helicopter respectively...gulp.
One fellow camper left by ambulance, he didn't have the coverage, ouch!
He lived; the bill is killing him now!!

This program/insurance covers the Reno region only; I was told many from all over the world get it just in case.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:45 am

BAS wrote:I'm curious about how many artists have been sued by folks who got injured on or near their projects. I know that the ticket does say that the attendee assumes all risks, but I don't know how well that would actually hold up in court.

Basically, (as I understand it) you can't give up your right to sue. Okay, maybe you can give it up to binding arbitration--I have to sign that paperwork with some regularity. And yes, a camp was taken to court--or at least had charges filed against them. I don't know how the interpersonal relationships changed as a result. I do remember the sheer nastiness of some of the people on this board against the family; it was really hateful.
My perspective comes from having been seriously injured while overseas; I'm very lucky that I am a federal employee with pretty good insurance in the world of american health care of the early 21st century. The bill for a helicopter flight off the playa is five figures. And then there are hospital costs when you get there. I know it seems like giving up hard earned cash to greedy and despicable companies, but if you are so unlucky to need it, the cost is a bargain.
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Postby gyre » Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:12 am

Limiting liability is one approach, and can be used in combination.

Having adequate general coverage can make adding specific additional coverage easy.
But insurance is about leverage, not fairness.
It has little to do with actual risks.
And companies vary dramatically in approach and cost, and coverage types.

Almost anything can be insured though.


One example is adding medical to trip coverage on a flight, is based on trip cost.
Basing the trip stated value on the fare only made the medical insurance negligible in cost, under $25.
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Postby moonrise » Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:27 am

I had a confusing phone call with my insurance carrier about BM coverage



Lloyd's of London will insure anything, cost is about 33% more money.
I risked it and skipped most insurance, just regular auto and care flight $55 YMMV

Edit for spelling
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Postby lambert13 » Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:54 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
It's probably a good idea for participants to get trip insurance as well. I forget to mention that, so this is a good time for me to chime in with that.


What would that cover? I am somewhat familiar with vacation insurance fir stuff like airfare an whatnot. What would it do fir you as far as Burning Man goes?

Interesting idea. I think I will look further into it as well.
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Postby unjonharley » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:03 pm

I have Life-flight and Fire-med that extends in to Nv/Bm

Also a small ER Thruogh AAA..

Is there a VA in Reno??
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Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:51 pm

lambert13 wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
It's probably a good idea for participants to get trip insurance as well. I forget to mention that, so this is a good time for me to chime in with that.


What would that cover? I am somewhat familiar with vacation insurance fir stuff like airfare an whatnot. What would it do fir you as far as Burning Man goes?

Interesting idea. I think I will look further into it as well.

I don't know, lambert. There was an insurance agent recommending things a couple of years back, the search function could be better, but it's worth it.
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Postby moonrise » Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:26 pm

Fishy is right, the search function could be better, I tried looking up MissNev or This Woman...couldn't find either.
Does anyone know how to look up one eplayan? (duh, i've never figured that one out so far)

Trip is probably called "travel" insurance.

unjohn, yes there's a VA in the Reno area, a friend goes there...he's retired Air Force. You must have "fire performance" insurance for medical costs?
My Auto did cover me on BLM land @BM on the playa

I've called Lloyd's of London, asked what I might need, then call back my regular home owner's agent and they "got it" and knew how to write a unique policy or can refer to less costly than Lloyd's of London.

Few years ago, I had to use Lloyd's after a flood and then wildland fire forced my homeowner's insurer to cancel my insurance! I had no other option; Lloyd's gives primo service, for 33% more!! I was with Lloyd's for one year, then back to normal insurance again.

Edit: to add Auto
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Postby gyre » Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:42 pm

moonrise wrote:Fishy is right, the search function could be better, I tried looking up MissNev or This Woman...couldn't find either.
Does anyone know how to look up one eplayan? (duh, i've never figured that one out so far)

viewtopic.php?t=37369

I can improve on this, but so far no one has even commented on using it.
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Postby Sic Pup » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:41 pm

moonrise wrote:Fishy is right, the search function could be better, I tried looking up MissNev or This Woman...couldn't find either.
Does anyone know how to look up one eplayan? (duh, i've never figured that one out so far)


Do you mean This Woman?
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Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:28 pm

She could be the one.
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Yet no one has posted the obvious...

Postby Capt.Flame O » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:05 am

Injury Sminjury...
READ YOUR TICKET...

shit happens at Burningman.
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Postby moonrise » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:02 am

This Woman, she knows MissNev. Reno gals.

Unless the spelling is incorrect, nice people...they were some of the camps from my intro period that extended camp invites.

I found their camp by the end of the week, good times.
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Re: Yet no one has posted the obvious...

Postby TomServo » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:18 am

Capt.Flame O wrote:Injury Sminjury...
READ YOUR TICKET...

shit happens at Burningman.


Thats funny! But people have died on the playa, and that little note on the ticket protects Burning Man...NOT the artist! Normally, i wouldnt give a shit, but people at Burning Man do stupid shit....or at least the drugs tell them to do stupid shit. Whatever you may feel about the disclaimer, we dont WANT to see people hurt!
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Postby moonrise » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:38 am

Sic Pup wrote:
moonrise wrote:Fishy is right, the search function could be better, I tried looking up MissNev or This Woman...couldn't find either.
Does anyone know how to look up one eplayan? (duh, i've never figured that one out so far)


Do you mean This Woman?


Yup, you found her!

She or MissNev know about insurance policies.

EDIT to add: TomServo is on spot about danger on the playa.
Ladder rungs can suddenly become irregular at the top of narrow tower legs 45+ feet tall, surprises abound!
Boundry tester, yes, I looked down, phew!
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Re: Yet no one has posted the obvious...

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:55 pm

TomServo wrote:
Capt.Flame O wrote:Injury Sminjury...
READ YOUR TICKET...

shit happens at Burningman.


Thats funny! But people have died on the playa, and that little note on the ticket protects Burning Man...NOT the artist! Normally, i wouldnt give a shit, but people at Burning Man do stupid shit....or at least the drugs tell them to do stupid shit. Whatever you may feel about the disclaimer, we dont WANT to see people hurt!

A lot of participants take the back of the ticket as a dare.
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Postby moonrise » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:30 pm

Don't look down!


Just keep going!


The ground is HARD
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