Any logical explanations why Burning Man cost have gone up?

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Postby C.f.M. » Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:16 am

Token wrote:
C.f.M. wrote:
HandJamMasterC wrote:
...and are you single?

Don't tell me Sparky and I will have to fight to the death in Thunderdome for you now? :shock:


...yes, and I can be consoled at the death of a fellow burner with stupid-expensive bottles of wine.


I can help facilitate this.


Yes, I know you can facilitate me drinking heavily! Before I even get to the Gate!

$1 for 300 parties, that's a really great way to look at it, for broke-ass people like me who really have to justify the expense.

One of regionals/home burn/all-time favourite burn, to celebrate their fifth year, are offering the first 500 at $5. But then, the others are only $35, they being avowed to not raise prices unless absolutely necessary. They also buy a scholarship ticket to Burning Man they gift.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:01 pm

I'm submitting this as "Most Vitriolic Thread of the Week." It can compete with threads with heavy SOP presence, a rarity.

Edited to add a letter.
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Postby ¡Niers! » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:18 pm

mdmf007 wrote:
¡Niers! wrote:The REAL question we should all be asking, is why the fuck does the federal government want $1,017,000.00 to use land that belongs to the public in the first place. Not to mention to a group that leaves it in better shape than we found it.

There's way more delicate landscapes here in Oregon that the BLM manages for us that has tons of trash on it at all times. Public land is just that....ours. Tax dollars....but wait....if you want to use it, that will cost you more.
Over a million a year? Just for a couple weeks?
Fuck the Feds!


The fees charged are set by CFR. its simply the camping rate per day, times the number of participants during the week. Contractors are excluded.


Is there a camping rate for the rest of the year?
This isn't a campground. I've used BLM land many times.
According to BLM.gov....the public is allowed to camp on most BLM land up to 14 days before having to move at least 25 miles from your original spot.
I just think it's stupid that they charge such a huge amount of money for a group of people that actually takes care of the site.
As far as I know, BLM staff doesn't have to clean up after us.

I realize that a festival like BM costs alot of money to organize and I have no issues with paying $320 for a ticket.
BM is more to me than just a festival and I don't even think twice about the ticket price. I spend so much more money on preparation that I do for a ticket.
I just get upset about seeing such a large amount of money going to the BLM to use land that already belongs to the public and is supposed to be free for use.
To top it off...here in Oregon, the BLM is selling off land left and right, to corporations like Wayerhauser so that they can clear-cut it.
The BLM is supposed to look after and protect our publicly owned lands.
I guess everything in this world does have a price afterall.
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Postby BAS » Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:19 pm

BBadger wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote:BBadger, when I first went to Burning Man, tickets started at $25 if you got in early. So, where else do we have 1000% inflation outside of Brazil? :)

We'll have to blame over-population and those darn social programs! We can also blame the "welfare" system that subsidizes the early tiers by "taxing" the later tiers. What happened to our complete self-reliance? Damn liberals!


What?! No! It is all the illegal immigrants who are responsible! They're taking all the jobs away from the folks who built Burning Man in the first place! CLOSE THOSE BORDERS!!!


(Never mind the rumor that one of my ancestors illegally crossed the border to avoid being hung in Canada for stealing horses.)
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:08 pm

Wall Street Journal says that shares of artificial sand have gone up in price 32.5% in the past fiscal year. There's your problem.
Please to visit PAGE TWO.
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:17 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:I'm submitting this as "Most Vitriolic Thread of the Week." It can compete with threads with heavy SOP presence, a rarity.



who is fucking with my Vitriol?

OHHHHHH, right....the same dumb-ass complaint that comes up every fucking year...


"why is it so expensive...bitch, moan, complain"


well, for all of you who think that for some reason or another Burning Man is out to Screw you out of your Hardly Earned money, well

YOU'RE RIGHT!


feel better? Good... now sit down, shut the fuck up and give me your credit card number.

here, have some kool-aid.
breathe deep, the playa is the dust of your ancestors

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Postby Isotopia » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:27 pm

Did someone call for a wambulance??



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Postby ygmir » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:40 pm

*dialing "whine one one"*
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Postby jerroc » Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:14 pm

In Oregon you can camp on BLM land all you want as long as you move around. 200+ of us have even show up set up camps and sound on a donation system. But if I charge as a business they too want a percentage. I have worked with BLM and done events it was better to work with private land ownrs. I have wondered why there has not been land purchased to use for BM the money is there.
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Postby JStep » Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:09 pm

jerroc wrote:In Oregon you can camp on BLM land all you want as long as you move around. 200+ of us have even show up set up camps and sound on a donation system. But if I charge as a business they too want a percentage. I have worked with BLM and done events it was better to work with private land ownrs. I have wondered why there has not been land purchased to use for BM the money is there.


I believe the ORG would then have to pay taxes on the land, in addition to the costs of putting on the event. As it is now they avoid the taxes by not owning the land and have volunteers to clean it up. This is just a guess, by the way, I might be full of shit. :D
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Postby mournlight » Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:14 pm

Well maybe the money that BLM makes from BM will be reason enough to keep at least that piece of property in the public domain.

I have paid more than $320 for one concert ticket, so I think the price is reasonable for all the offerings. I spend a lot more getting ready, like others, and getting there. I think it's a bargain!

I had a great time, and I got in line and got a second tier ticket, so I'll be back. And as soon as I get paid again, I'll buy one more ticket. Where else could I go and get a full week, 24/7 of entertainment and interaction for a whole week for that price??
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Postby JStep » Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:45 pm

I would really come down to a cost/benefit analysis of owning vs public use (as it is now).

Would the amount paid in taxes and upkeep be greater than the current amount paid to the BLM to use the land.

There is no argument that this is public land, the ORG (I believe) is paying a fee to close off and occupy part of the public land. This is part of what differentiates BM from Rainbow Gatherings. There is a hue gray area, as BM is also complying with the non-commercial use law, but they are paying the state/US for the privilege of closing off this public land and charging paying customers to use it. Strict constitutionalists/rainbow types I'm sure would have strong problems with this.

The Rainbow situation is strict constitutionalist, any member of the public can camp there, there is no commercial use... However there are no porta potties or other civilized amenities like medical care etc.

I'm quite excited to get familiar with this event and comapre/contrast the two approaches to creating pseudo TAZ situations and communities.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:58 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:I'm submitting this as "Most Vitriolic Thread of the Week." It can compete with threads with heavy SOP presence, a rarity.



who is fucking with my Vitriol?

Darling! I wasn't complaining about yours. Just about the stuff you inspire in return.

Please forgive me.
(Sorry, I won't crawl.)
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Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:00 pm

JStep wrote:The Rainbow situation is strict constitutionalist, any member of the public can camp there, there is no commercial use... However there are no porta potties or other civilized amenities like medical care etc.

And they leave the land a mess, I understand.
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Postby Kinetik V » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:14 pm

Hookers and blow.

....Because not every working girl can be at the bunny ranch with a steady supply of customers and the Mexican / Columbian drug lords have to cover their costs too.

Don't forget that tobacco taxes for the Hat continue to go up...

Oh and someone's gotta buy new golf carts for the staff to haul their asses around in during the event.
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Postby Manna » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:08 pm

Dr. Pyro wrote:I, being the Voice of Reason in the forum, am going to try to put a positive spin on this whole ordeal. I ended up paying right at $300 for my ticket(s). I do not think of it as spending $300 for a party; rather, I look at it as spending $1 for 300 parties. When I look at it through that particular lens, things don't appear to be too bad to me.


I really like this!

I also try and justify it this way: say you pay around $300 dollars for a ticket. Assuming you'll be staying for the duration of the event, you're paying for eight days of awesome, which is equivalent to $37.50 for each day. It seems totally worth it. Even if you do end up getting the $360 tickets, that only comes out to $45 a day. Even then it costs less than most concert tickets.
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Postby JStep » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:36 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
JStep wrote:The Rainbow situation is strict constitutionalist, any member of the public can camp there, there is no commercial use... However there are no porta potties or other civilized amenities like medical care etc.

And they leave the land a mess, I understand.


Not in my experience, but since it's such a loosely organized thing I imagine some sites/years are better than others. I did a year of regionals and usually stayed for cleanup. We had everything clean in a week or so, the biggest impact being soil compaction on trails, which is difficult to overcome. In Mississippi I personally did most of the aerating with a pick axe hoping to get the trials to loosen up and reseed. I went back to the site 6 months later and there was no garbage but sadly most of our trails were plainly visible.
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Postby gyre » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:44 pm

Perhaps they could do a better job if the government harrassment hadn't forced them to disband all formal bureacracy?

Anything they get done is impressive.
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:51 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS7nqwGt4-I[/youtube]
Please to visit PAGE TWO.
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Postby seanmcpherson » Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:38 pm

C.f.M. wrote:
One of regionals/home burn/all-time favourite burn, to celebrate their fifth year, are offering the first 500 at $5. But then, the others are only $35, they being avowed to not raise prices unless absolutely necessary. They also buy a scholarship ticket to Burning Man they gift.


I love going to Alchemy; it's only 6 hours for me. I'll be there again this fall, but I'll buy a normal priced ticket and leave the cheaper ones to folks who need 'em. It's the best $35 I ever spend all year, tho, I can say that.

If anyone's gonna be there this year, and likes Ice Cold Ginger Ale (Ale-8-1s) come find my lil-white trailer. I'll prolly take a cooler full down to Chili Camp (usally at the base of Silent Hill) for people to enjoy with their Chili again this year as it worked well last year :)
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Postby Trishntek » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:37 am

Well then,,,, problem solved! Let's hand it all over to the Chinese to manage. I'm sure they can figure a way to do it cheaper!

A smaller area would do the trick,,,, yeah! And we'll limit it to 10 people! That'll save tons of money! Water trucks? What? Dust control? We don't need no fucking dust control! And instead of JOTS, we'll deep fry our turds and sell them in Center Camp as "Fritters"!
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Postby AntiM » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:53 am

JStep wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
JStep wrote:The Rainbow situation is strict constitutionalist, any member of the public can camp there, there is no commercial use... However there are no porta potties or other civilized amenities like medical care etc.

And they leave the land a mess, I understand.


Not in my experience, but since it's such a loosely organized thing I imagine some sites/years are better than others. I did a year of regionals and usually stayed for cleanup. We had everything clean in a week or so, the biggest impact being soil compaction on trails, which is difficult to overcome. In Mississippi I personally did most of the aerating with a pick axe hoping to get the trials to loosen up and reseed. I went back to the site 6 months later and there was no garbage but sadly most of our trails were plainly visible.


Hell, you can still see the trails the wagon trains left behind. You tried.

I thought contaminating ground water sources from the use of hand dug latrines/no latrines was a major issue?

Am I evil for chuckling about the year the Rainbows got snowed out in July in the high Uintahs?
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Postby jerroc » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:51 am

jStep the amount of money BLM charges for land use is way more than the land tax BMorg would pay if they owned the property. The issue in owning vs renting is liabilty. BMorg has in everyway found a way out of being liable for anything. But this is the only way the event can be ran. If BMorg started taking liabilty for the event there would be countless people and organzations draging the BMorg to court and the buisness would bankrupt. Larry has found a way to keep his hands clean and run an event. Good for him.
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Postby Dave_techie » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:03 am

I think it's interesting that no one asks about how the increases in fuel, lumber, DG, and other costs impact tickets.

No one asks about the impact of inflation.

there are no threads about "OMG! did you see how much more the BLM is charging for the permit this time because I didn't write an E-Mail?!"

Stop complaining about the ticket price, it's reasonable for what it is. if you can't afford it apply for a scholarship ticket. Or save longer. it is january. You've got time.
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Postby graidawg » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:29 am

All these complaints about price weren't the top tier tickets $360 last year? so this year is cheaper isn't it? or am i reading the ticket pricing wrong for this tyear last year?
not that i care my air fare will be twice the ticket price so few dollars make little difference
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Postby BAS » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:41 am

It isn't the cost of the ticket keeping me from going-- the fact I live about 2,000 miles away and can't afford the gas is a bigger factor (as are other expenses.)
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Postby LLQchasm » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:44 pm

BAS wrote:It isn't the cost of the ticket keeping me from going-- the fact I live about 2,000 miles away and can't afford the gas is a bigger factor (as are other expenses.)


I used to look at it that way. But whether you rent or own a home, that is a bigger expense. I got rid of my place and most of what I owned because I realized that they "owned me", not the other way around. In other words, what I had was an excuse for the feds to attach their parasitic claws into my business. So... since rent / property is not a deduction (unless it is zoned), I don't rent. But... gas on the road in the performance of your business duties is a tax deduction, so gas replaces rent with the bonus that it is a tax write off.

All money is is a way of controlling people. If BM was free, 1,200,000 show up, several hundred get sick and die, or get trampled in a panic, people will start to complain... "why did Gov Sandoval allow this to happen"? See you can't win on either extreme of this argument; it is a matter of balance. It is a numbers game to make sure behaviors fall withing established boundaries in an effort to keep all sides above reproach.
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Postby LLQchasm » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:50 pm

That being said, wherever funds are raised, there's always someone with access who gets tempted by greed and finds a way to fudge the numbers. That's what happens in govt, $900 toilet seats, $250 for a hammer?
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Postby LLQchasm » Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:02 pm

I came to this forum wondering if BM was getting too big, but raising prices is one way to keep balance. I have yet to attend my first burn and have been wanting to do this for about 10 years. This year is finally it!
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Postby phoon » Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:31 pm

I think festivals across the board are jacking up their prices. It seems like the trendy thing to do, I guess. It's going to make a lot of people change their minds and not go anymore. It's just too expensive, you know?
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