Evolution of Music Scene

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Postby mars » Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:18 am

bud buddah wrote:In order to create an art piece out of this, we need a wiki where we can put together the song list. Argue over it, discuss themes and movements, and then put together song lists for each night and just play it. No DJ. Community music chosen by a community. Sunday night, blues. Monday, early american rock. Tuesday, early british invasion. Wednesday psychedelics (all Dead?), Thursday, 80's pop punk ( clash, nick lowe, devo, elvis costello, talking heads?) etc. etc. Fuck DJs. Just put it all together and play it. We'll put a mannequin with headphones up on a big stage to make an artistic statement :-)
Bud


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Postby Tin Halo » Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:00 pm

Mister Jellyfish Mister wrote:Next year we want to have an air t-shirt concession, air Yoko-- the works!


"Air Yoko"?

WTF? Are you trying to break up the BMORG?
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Postby Tin Halo » Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:10 pm

bud buddah wrote:In order to create an art piece out of this, we need a wiki where we can put together the song list. Argue over it, discuss themes and movements, and then put together song lists for each night and just play it. No DJ. Community music chosen by a community. Sunday night, blues. Monday, early american rock. Tuesday, early british invasion. Wednesday psychedelics (all Dead?), Thursday, 80's pop punk ( clash, nick lowe, devo, elvis costello, talking heads?) etc. etc. Fuck DJs. Just put it all together and play it. We'll put a mannequin with headphones up on a big stage to make an artistic statement :-)
Bud


Great idea.
I would suggest eliminating the Psychedelics night, though. Kinda redundant? I mean, there's probably a shitload of Deadheads at BM already, they're already trippin', and --believe it or not--there ARE people who don't care for the Dead and are kind of escaping from their incessant anemic noodling in the default world. (Gave myself away there, I guess.) I would suggest there be a PowerPop night, or Americana night, or some other genre/sub-genre that gets edged off of default radio.

Oddly enough, I support the techno-rave camps... mostly because it gives people I'd rather not bump into some place to spend a majority of their time. :lol: Seriously, I'd rather have them at the camps than be mobile, because that shit blasting past your camp at 2:30 or 3 in the morning when you're an older, more sleep-concerned adult, really steams my grumpus. Having mobile techno is like witnessing an awful car accident, then having the police and tow truck drivers parade the bodies and cars around to various neighborhoods for the rest of the day.

Now, you kids get off my lawn and take your mp-whatever thingamagigs with you. And get some haircuts!
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Postby neon tetra » Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:29 pm

Colonel Monk wrote: thievery corporation
massive attack
Kruder & Dorfmeister
psycedelic rock
downtempo
trip hop
ambient
dubtronicajamtronica
Soundtribe Sector 9
Lotus
Shpongle
Particle



^^^ THIS is what I would love to hear more of on the playa.
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Postby The CO » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:23 pm

Speaking from the perspective of working in live concert production for a couple decades now....

The thing that drives me away from most tech-no (I'm generalizing here) is not the music per se, it's (as previously mentioned on this thread) the lack of knowledge when it comes to setting & tuning the gear. In 2001, camp Fuck (& I still say fuck you to them) put their PA in the back of the box truck they had in order to protect it from the elements. This turned the truck into a giant acoustic amplifier. But instead of pointing the back of the truck at their dance floor, it was pointed straight at our camp. Then they kept cranking the volume up, because they couldn't hear it. After about three days of shitty noise & 3 ranger interventions, we told them they could stop or we would start lobbing our piss jugs at them. They got quieter for an hour or two. I swear on all that is holy that I have no idea what happened to their genny.

Poorly placed speakers, bad audio mixing, the theory that louder is better no matter what, that is my personal hatred in BRC. Part of being a performing musician is knowing how to use all of your gear, including the down feature on volume. 95% of sound camps out there don't seem to get this.

The only thing I hate, truly hate, is the dome with a DJ blasting whatever at max volume, with one person dancing, and everyone else running away.
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Postby gunsmith » Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:09 pm

The CO wrote:Speaking from the perspective of working in live concert production for a couple decades now....

The thing that drives me away from most tech-no (I'm generalizing here) is not the music per se, it's (as previously mentioned on this thread) the lack of knowledge when it comes to setting & tuning the gear. In 2001, camp Fuck (& I still say fuck you to them) put their PA in the back of the box truck they had in order to protect it from the elements. This turned the truck into a giant acoustic amplifier. But instead of pointing the back of the truck at their dance floor, it was pointed straight at our camp. Then they kept cranking the volume up, because they couldn't hear it. After about three days of shitty noise & 3 ranger interventions, we told them they could stop or we would start lobbing our piss jugs at them. They got quieter for an hour or two. I swear on all that is holy that I have no idea what happened to their genny.

Poorly placed speakers, bad audio mixing, the theory that louder is better no matter what, that is my personal hatred in BRC. Part of being a performing musician is knowing how to use all of your gear, including the down feature on volume. 95% of sound camps out there don't seem to get this.

The only thing I hate, truly hate, is the dome with a DJ blasting whatever at max volume, with one person dancing, and everyone else running away.


What is it that makes people act that way!!?? I so agree with you-one cold night a few years ago I was just getting to sleep & it was relatively as far as quiet goes out there in burningland when a godawful thumping erupted. I was so pissed I went and found them. one person dancing and one "dj" at 0415 ... alas they were friendly Irish folks so I didn't get alll American on them ... having lived in Ireland I know the culture- no one there cares a flying frak how frakking annoying their talentless disco thump is. however the gals were nice so I endured.

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Postby EmilyD » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:58 pm

I can't remember if I posted this before but it's a short video of some music that saved my brain


http://www.flickr.com/photos/70423810@N ... 917908292/

I came upon this guy just doing his thing on 6:00 between C & D. It was wonderfully not ravish.
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Postby EmilyD » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:02 am

Tin Halo wrote:
bud buddah wrote:In order to create an art piece out of this, we need a wiki where we can put together the song list. Argue over it, discuss themes and movements, and then put together song lists for each night and just play it. No DJ. Community music chosen by a community. Sunday night, blues. Monday, early american rock. Tuesday, early british invasion. Wednesday psychedelics (all Dead?), Thursday, 80's pop punk ( clash, nick lowe, devo, elvis costello, talking heads?) etc. etc. Fuck DJs. Just put it all together and play it. We'll put a mannequin with headphones up on a big stage to make an artistic statement :-)
Bud


Great idea.
I would suggest eliminating the Psychedelics night, though. Kinda redundant? I mean, there's probably a shitload of Deadheads at BM already, they're already trippin', and --believe it or not--there ARE people who don't care for the Dead and are kind of escaping from their incessant anemic noodling in the default world. (Gave myself away there, I guess.) I would suggest there be a PowerPop night, or Americana night, or some other genre/sub-genre that gets edged off of default radio.

Oddly enough, I support the techno-rave camps... mostly because it gives people I'd rather not bump into some place to spend a majority of their time. :lol: Seriously, I'd rather have them at the camps than be mobile, because that shit blasting past your camp at 2:30 or 3 in the morning when you're an older, more sleep-concerned adult, really steams my grumpus. Having mobile techno is like witnessing an awful car accident, then having the police and tow truck drivers parade the bodies and cars around to various neighborhoods for the rest of the day.

Now, you kids get off my lawn and take your mp-whatever thingamagigs with you. And get some haircuts!


Yah get a job you fucking hippies! oh wait...uh oh, we're our parents!
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Postby Cheyenne » Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:12 am

Speaking from the perspective of working in live concert production for a couple decades now....

The thing that drives me away from most tech-no (I'm generalizing here) is not the music per se, it's (as previously mentioned on this thread) the lack of knowledge when it comes to setting & tuning the gear. In 2001, camp Fuck (& I still say fuck you to them) put their PA in the back of the box truck they had in order to protect it from the elements. This turned the truck into a giant acoustic amplifier. But instead of pointing the back of the truck at their dance floor, it was pointed straight at our camp. Then they kept cranking the volume up, because they couldn't hear it. After about three days of shitty noise & 3 ranger interventions, we told them they could stop or we would start lobbing our piss jugs at them. They got quieter for an hour or two. I swear on all that is holy that I have no idea what happened to their genny.

Poorly placed speakers, bad audio mixing, the theory that louder is better no matter what, that is my personal hatred in BRC. Part of being a performing musician is knowing how to use all of your gear, including the down feature on volume. 95% of sound camps out there don't seem to get this.

The only thing I hate, truly hate, is the dome with a DJ blasting whatever at max volume, with one person dancing, and everyone else running away.


Please don't lump us all in the same category. I have been involved with events for dance music for at least ten years and we always factor in the sentiments of those who DON'T want to hear our music in mind. We spent hours before an event testing db levels with meters, creating sound horizon perimeters so it doesn't travel in the direction of a non participatory element. Most of our events over here are outdoors, in sleepy country locations, so it is of the utmost importance that we don't get complaints from locals. The dibble can shut events down at any time in the UK thanks to shit legislation that came into being in 1994. Also, the key to a system that doesn't piss everyone off is high quality amplification that doesn't distort the high frequencies - that is the dangerous band that knackers your hearing. I would like to think that we try and use some of the best equipment for our budget and spend long enough getting the right balance of sounds which accomodate both live and electronic music... If onlywe had the money to shift our systems over to USA - but it would cost us thousands!!

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Postby Simon of the Playa » Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:07 am

SUCK MY DISCO !!!
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Postby motskyroonmatick » Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:41 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4lPA5G0DOo[/youtube]
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:19 pm

OMFG!


note to self* chastise minions for not bringing this to my attention.


i don't need to tell you the size of the wet spot, do i...
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Postby H.G.Crosby » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:21 pm

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Postby JStep » Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:50 pm

Not a history lesson as I've not been to BM yet.

But here's my intuition on this electronica vs rock/other music debate, speaking as someone who loves the Beatles, The Dead, The Cars and Roni Size, Skynet or other good electronica just as much.

One thing, if it all sounds the same to you, you're not really listening to it or it's being played on a crappy system or it's EQ'd all wrong. Many people who think electronica all sounds the same, I suspect, aren't actually listening to it because they have already decided they don't like it. Trance sounds completely different than Drum n Bass, which sounds completely different than Happy Hardcore, etc etc.

Now, as to the forms of music, and this is a broad brush generalization as I think there is a lot of overlap and nuance in differing genres;

Rock/pop traditional music, is made with a whole different set of intentions, in my opinion. It is a self contained, packaged attempt to deliver a message to the consumer/listener. It has a beginning, a middle, and an end. It follows a pre-supposed pattern of verse, chorus, repetition and resolve. It is like a commercial or a a film if that analogy feels better. It's trying to express a message through lyrical content to TELL you something.

Electronica is not at all like that, in my opinion. It's intent is usually to create a space for YOU to express yourself through dance. It's not trying to tell you something, it's not a message, it is a vehicle. The rave scene exploded not because those kids just really like that music, but because it was an experiment in communities of people involved in going to underground parties and creating spaces in which to experiment with trance inducing mental states through dance (and, with mixed results, drugs), self expression, and art. A big part of trance inducing states of consciousness is overwhelming the senses (lots of light and hypnotic sound). A person who's tripping (also sober though) and dancing ecstatically in such an environment can often enter trance or trance-like states, an altered form of consciousness that humans have been experimenting with for millions of years and currently has no outlet in modern proper well behaved drug free society.

When I want to listen to The Cars (LOVE THEM!) it's for a different set of aesthetic needs than when I want to close my eyes and listen to Skynet on my Blackberry. The Cars is a piece of art, Skynet is also art but it can also be a canvas when my mind creates its own expressions on the canvas of sound. When I want to dance to 4 on the floor untz untz untz it's not the same aesthetic need that makes me want to bounce around to a sweet bluegrass band. Equating them I think is a confusion of the purpose of electronica.
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Postby Digit » Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:57 pm

JStep wrote:...electronica is not at all like that, in my opinion. It's intent is usually to create a space for YOU to express yourself through dance. It's not trying to tell you something, it's not a message, it is a vehicle. The rave scene exploded not because those kids just really like that music, but because it was an experiment in communities of people involved in going to underground parties and creating spaces in which to experiment with trance inducing mental states through dance (and, with mixed results, drugs), self expression, and art. A big part of trance inducing states of consciousness is overwhelming the senses (lots of light and hypnotic sound). A person who's tripping (also sober though) and dancing ecstatically in such an environment can often enter trance or trance-like states, an altered form of consciousness that humans have been experimenting with for millions of years and currently has no outlet in modern proper well behaved drug free society.

When I want to listen to The Cars (LOVE THEM!) it's for a different set of aesthetic needs than when I want to close my eyes and listen to Skynet on my Blackberry. The Cars is a piece of art, Skynet is also art but it can also be a canvas when my mind creates its own expressions on the canvas of sound. When I want to dance to 4 on the floor untz untz untz it's not the same aesthetic need that makes me want to bounce around to a sweet bluegrass band. Equating them I think is a confusion of the purpose of electronica.


Beautifully worded.

Also being one of many musical tastes, I can definitely understand where alot of you are coming from as far as the "it's sounds the same" line of thinking. For alot of people, it's just that same old shitty techno music that some assjack is blasting way too loud, and (chances are) they don't know how to properly set up equipment or align there speakers/equalizers or level their channels properly.

Being an amateur DJ, and this next being my first burn, I wasn't planning on bringing my gear with me, mostly because I want to see what the elements are actually like, and get a chance to experience them myself before I lug out a few thousand dollars worth of turntables and mixers into the middle of nowhere and be SOL after two hours of playing.

Unfortunately, alot of your complaints, though, are well placed. If any of the local shows around here have any similar qualities to ones you have mentioned, alot of "kids" (and I say this loosely, as I am 21) these days don't bother trying to level out there amps, or spend time doing sound checks. They just want to get the bass as loud as it'll go and the highs as low as they'll go and have at.

I was fortunate enough to get hooked up with some DJ's that have been in the business for 14 or 15 years, and a few producers as well. If we DO end up dragging our gear out to BM one of these years, I'll definitely make sure we have a more "live" feel to what we're doing. Crowd interaction, music with lyrics, maybe some live remixing of older tracks. I'm glad that I hopped on ePlaya this early in the game. Really kinda paints a picture of what people want, and as a DJ, making the crowd happy is what I'm there for. Cause if ya'll ain't happy... Well, I'm out of a job. :lol: :roll:
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Postby neon tetra » Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:35 am

This is the stuff I'd like to hear more of @ Burning Man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1nH9wqF3c4
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Postby neon tetra » Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:45 am

JStep wrote:One thing, if it all sounds the same to you, you're not really listening to it or it's being played on a crappy system or it's EQ'd all wrong.


..or it's just a shitty DJ. Plenty of them do play lousy, boring tunes that really all sound the same. Same goes for folks that only play a very narrow sub-genre of music.
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Postby gaminwench » Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:58 am

... or, for you newbies who haven't experienced it...

it could be the 24/7 pervasiveness of the collective thump - which can be heard all over the city, a constant underlying insistent indeterminate bassy beat, with ne'er a breath of space...
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Postby JStep » Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:04 pm

gaminwench wrote:... or, for you newbies who haven't experienced it...

it could be the 24/7 pervasiveness of the collective thump - which can be heard all over the city, a constant underlying insistent indeterminate bassy beat, with ne'er a breath of space...


That sounds like the bad EQ I referred to. That or being too distant so all you hear is the bass, being that bass frequencies travel through air farther than mids or highs. Not really the music's "fault" there.
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Postby neon tetra » Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:09 pm

It's not the EQ's. Burning Man generally has better sound quality for EDM than most clubs/raves I go to. Even most of the mutant vehicles have great sound.
The problem is, it's fucking LOUD and it's EVERYWHERE.

I love electronic music. I've been going to raves since 1992.
But honestly, I wish there was a bit less electronic dance music there, and a bit more intricate downtempo/trip-hop/experimental stuff there.
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Postby JStep » Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:10 pm

neon tetra wrote:
JStep wrote:One thing, if it all sounds the same to you, you're not really listening to it or it's being played on a crappy system or it's EQ'd all wrong.


..or it's just a shitty DJ. Plenty of them do play lousy, boring tunes that really all sound the same. Same goes for folks that only play a very narrow sub-genre of music.


I suppose that's possible, just seems so unlikely. A shitty DJ usually trainwrecks everything, can't mix well, etc so no one wants to hear them and they're embarrassed. Even if all you play is one narrow genre, say detroit house records from 1999, it's pretty hard to find a whole lot of songs that all sound the same. Unless anything with a similar beat sounds the "same" to the listener, which just says to me that they're tuning it out. I don't imply that it's wrong, taste is subjective, but being unable or unwilling to hear nuance and variety in music doesn't mean that it's not there.
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Postby Digit » Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:40 pm

... On that same token though, you have to take into consideration alot of the LARGER genre's do sound fairly similar when they're broadened out. If I'm mixing Hardstyle or Gabber for instance, that super fast oontz oontz oontz oontz is fairly uniform throughout, and it's not that hard to find songs that sound if not almost exactly the same, then VERY similar. This can be applied to alot of EDM in general as well.

I WILL agree with you that sometimes you have to listen a little deeper than the oontz oontz, but to the random passerby, Dubstep is gonna sound like Dubstep, DnB is gonna sound like DnB, Trance is gonna sound like Trance, etcetera, etcetera.

On that note, I'd love to see some live music while I'm there. Im a big fan of acoustic tunes, folk, indi/coffee house rock, punk, metal, hard rock... I love to dance all night, but sometimes too much is just that.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:45 pm

Okay, I don't listen. I can't really dance, but even when that was possible I didn't. I'm just one of the playa-scrooges who doesn't want it blasted at her from passing cars. Get enough of that in every other city in the country.
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Postby neon tetra » Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:33 pm

theCryptofishist wrote: I'm just one of the playa-scrooges who doesn't want it blasted at her from passing cars. Get enough of that in every other city in the country.


This past year we (accidentally) camped right near kid's camp. I took us a day or so to figure out why it was so quiet, but supposedly the art cars aren't allowed to blast music through there. Some still did, but it was definitely a quiet area overall.
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Postby K-mom » Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:10 pm

Tin Halo wrote:Having mobile techno is like witnessing an awful car accident, then having the police and tow truck drivers parade the bodies and cars around to various neighborhoods for the rest of the day.


quoted for awesomeness. though I still refuse to get a haircut.
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Postby Aiee! It burns! » Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:23 pm

Looks like most opeople dont like the music that there hearing .
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Postby neon tetra » Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:21 pm

I do like most of what I hear out there. As far as electronic music goes, it's better than what I hear at most raves/clubs I go to. Lots of good breaks, electro, dubstep. And usually not too many MCs, which have basically become a virus on the east coast.

I just wish there was a bit more ambient, experimental, trip-hop, avant garde, etc. & more live music. I think I would die of happiness if I got to see a STS9 show on the playa!
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Postby JStep » Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:38 pm

neon tetra wrote:I think I would die of happiness if I got to see a STS9 show on the playa!


WORD to that! STS9, Particle, Umphree's McGee, The Disco Bicuits, all those bands kept running through my head when I read through the "more live music" posts.
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Postby Eric » Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:28 pm

JStep wrote:
neon tetra wrote:
JStep wrote:One thing, if it all sounds the same to you, you're not really listening to it or it's being played on a crappy system or it's EQ'd all wrong.


..or it's just a shitty DJ. Plenty of them do play lousy, boring tunes that really all sound the same. Same goes for folks that only play a very narrow sub-genre of music.


I suppose that's possible, just seems so unlikely.


Grasshopper, please clear your mind of what you think should be likely until you've actually been to the Event. Things that you think couldn't be, are; including a fucking lot of shitty DJ's, as well as the thump thump you can hear almost everywhere (almost). There is a reason you see such animosity towards DJ's on ePlaya- they're as common as the dust but much more annoying.

Always keep in mind that everything you think you know about what you're going to experience- beyond food, water & shelter- is wrong. Even what you've heard here. There is no way to understand until you've been. Really.

edit: Clarification- the last paragraph means that it's a 360 degree, 24/7 immersive experience. It's all around you, always.
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Postby JStep » Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:11 pm

Eric wrote:Always keep in mind that everything you think you know about what you're going to experience- beyond food, water & shelter- is wrong. Even what you've heard here.


Well, there goes the value of ePlaya... and your post. LOL.
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