How *Should* We Treat Newcomers?

All things outside of Burning Man.

How *Should* We Treat Newcomers?

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:40 am

Continuing controversy about how we treat newbs.
Are we toughining them up?
Should we give them information without comment? Should we just snark amoung ourselves and give them nothing but sweetness and light? Does the "No snark until after good advice has been given/thread is on second page" work? How much of the interaction in the jokey way keeps us here so that someone's there to answer questions? Should we step in on each other? Should we hit the Introduction threads to make sure that the newbs know there are friendly people here?

And what about the djs?

[s]Tune in tomorrow, for...[/s]
Um, sorry. On-going discussion, I hope.
Simon's real sig line?

Embrace the Sock

Winners never quilt, quilters never win...
User avatar
theCryptofishist
 
Posts: 37462
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:28 am
Location: In Exile
Burning Since: 2017

Postby caveatlector » Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:47 am

My first experiences on ePlaya were good ones this year. I introduced myself, posted a few project ideas and received really constructive feedback which really gave me a motivation to drag my ass out to the Playa for the first time.

I suspect that if I'd been given simply snark, I'm not sure if I'd have been as hyped to go. I would have still gone, but would have been far more wary of the more experienced folks.

That being said, I did focus on the "Crafting Help" and "Introduction" threads. If I'd been dumb enough to wade into the "Open Discussion" area right off the bat and be expected to be treated with kid gloves, I might deserve a bit of the snark.
-----

)|( POEE )'(
User avatar
caveatlector
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:22 pm
Location: Toronto. Great White North.
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: Arctica Ice Sales

Postby gaminwench » Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:54 am

I lurked for 3 years... and still didn't quite get it (but I'm a literal, helpful sort, hardly ever snarkish)... it's scary in here, sometimes...
I like the 'no snark til the page flips' idea, for what it's worth...
User avatar
gaminwench
 
Posts: 1722
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:57 am
Location: Shangri-la
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: DOTA, EoD, OBOP

Postby ygmir » Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:56 am

yeah, sort of kind, helpful responses.........and, if it's a good question, even if a "repeat" it deserves and answer...........

but...........

sometimes, the posts are so foogin stupid..........really.....that I have to hold myself to keep from snarking/teasing/disrespecting them right off the bat.

ETA:
I got my ass kicked many times, at first........by folks I now cherish........hahahahaa
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
User avatar
ygmir
 
Posts: 25996
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Location: nevada county
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: qqqq

Postby pinemom » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:02 pm

~Muah~


Thats a hard one. Yes, we should be more gentle...till page 2 I guess....

Its hard to tell a Sparkle pony from just an undereducated Burgin....
Names pinemom, but my friends call me "Piney".
User avatar
pinemom
 
Posts: 8246
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:36 am
Location: Booby Bar 2007-2011

Postby Nitevenus » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:11 pm

I'm inclined to respond by being helpful a good majority of the time but sometimes you just get a question that you want to tell them to go back to the home page and "just read it, dammit".....

What is really awesome about this board is that if someone does blast 'em with snark, someone else comes along to soften the blow and explain. Some of my fondest "just spit coffee on the screen" moments come from our gifted snarkers.......

Dunno, maybe post a Enter at your own Risk sticky......
Nitevenus
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 7:45 pm
Location: Arizona

Postby Isotopia » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:33 pm

Each time we don't snark on a DJ Burningman dies a little bit more.
User avatar
Isotopia
 
Posts: 2813
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:26 am

Postby Ugly Dougly » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:51 pm

Always back to principles.
- Radical inclusion
- Radical self-reliance
- Radical snarking, hippie!
(Although DJs should get no mercy.)
Please to visit PAGE TWO.
User avatar
Ugly Dougly
 
Posts: 16335
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:31 am
Location: San Jose, CA
Burning Since: 1996

Postby lambert13 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:52 pm

As a fairly new member, I though the welcome I got was just fine. Everyone was friendly and the snark was mild in my intro post.

It seems that the new members that get beat up are the ones that sort of deserve it. Asking questions without doing any research themselves, trolling for arguments, or other misc. stupidity.

For them, if they stick around after the beating, they might be better for it.
It's pointless to walk when it's past time to run.
User avatar
lambert13
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:15 pm
Location: Albany, NY

Postby jkisha » Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:07 pm

I think we've been doing a pretty good job doing things the way we are doing them.

If a person posts in the introduce yourself section, that's all that I do--welcome them to eplaya and ignore any questions they might ask in that forum. After all, it's the introduce yourself section, not the ask questions section.

Being that we hear some of the same most BASIC questions time and time again, it's hard not to be a bit snarky, but I try to temper my snark by reminding myself how poor the "search" function on this forum works and how difficult it is to use.

I tend to agree that those that seem to get snarked early on usually deserve it. Recent post where that kid posted about ugly, fat naked people on the playa...anybody see his latest post in that thread?

I'm not a big proponent of tough love, but hey, this is eplaya--you need to be able to take it and then give it right back. Newbies should know...lurk a bit before you start posting.

Nothing here but some of my random thoughts on the topic.

JK
JK
Image
http://www.mudskippercafe.com
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
User avatar
jkisha
 
Posts: 11403
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:00 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Mudskipper Cafe

Postby oneeyeddick » Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:20 pm

lambert13 wrote:As a fairly new member, I though the welcome I got was just fine. Everyone was friendly and the snark was mild in my intro post.



well, that is because you obviously are a photographer.

Dj's aren't smart enough to take pictures, thus the shoe-in.
We have an obligation to make space for everyone, we have no obligation to make that space pleasant.
User avatar
oneeyeddick
 
Posts: 5588
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:08 pm
Location: Probably in your pants
Burning Since: 1996

Postby Eric » Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:31 pm

I like the AntiM way- answer the question first, once that's done the snark can follow. I don't think it needs to wait until page 2, a couple of posts in is fine for most topics.

The sparkle-pony & obvious troll posts..... they're a little harder. Stupid questions are going to get snark, regardless of good intentions. They'd get them in real life, why should they be exempt here?

A sticky might not be a bad idea, if the admins like the idea. "This is how eplaya works" type of thing. The fact that many of us have met (at the minimum) and that lots actually camp together should be pointed out in the sticky. The eplaya is more like walking into a large village in BRC then just wandering in to BRC itself; you have the regulars, the regular visitors, the people who wander in off the street, the drunk trying to piss in your gray-water pond...

I refuse to stop snarking at DJ's. I camp with DJ's who make a living off of it and run a world-wide club empire (really- they leave for their next Asian tour in a few weeks)- they also don't run around bragging about how great they are on the forum. You should hear them talking about the average playa DJ....
Survival Guide * First Timers Guide * Ticket Info

Regarding Ticket Scalpers and Scammers

It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist

Eric ShutterSlut
BRC Weekly
User avatar
Eric
Moderator
 
Posts: 7116
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:45 pm
Burning Since: 2003
Camp Name: BRC Weekly

Postby FIGJAM » Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:18 pm

"Do people drink water out there? Should I bring food?" Oh my.
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me
User avatar
FIGJAM
 
Posts: 7093
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:39 am
Location: apache junction az.

Postby Teo del Fuego » Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:38 pm

jkisha wrote:I think we've been doing a pretty good job doing things the way we are doing them.
I try to temper my snark by reminding myself how poor the "search" function on this forum works and how difficult it is to use.


I think jkisha has been doing a really good job on here....and he's right, the search function is almost useless.

Some folks deserve to get reamed. The jackass named "Epic" who drops in occasionally is a prime example. But there are around five ePlayans who, way too often, cross over the line and just shit on new people for no valid reason. It's not funny, warranted, or helpful to the community or the vibe here.

If the newb's question is pathetically lame, just don't respond to it, or politely steer them to the FAQ section.
User avatar
Teo del Fuego
 
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:31 am
Location: Denver
Burning Since: 2005
Camp Name: Whiskey & Dust

Postby junglesmacks » Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:52 pm

I double dog dare you to list those five.. ;)
Savannah wrote:It sounds freaky & wrong, so you need to do it.
User avatar
junglesmacks
 
Posts: 5809
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 9:54 pm
Location: Orlando, FL/Kailua, HI
Camp Name: Your mom's tent

Postby AntiM » Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:52 pm

Eric nailed it, the snark does not have to wait until page two. However, snark should NEVER be the first response in the forums where advice is sought. Open discussion? Go for it.

There are asshole eplayans. I try to work with them, but I cannot edit for content which I simply do not like. I tried that, with support, and it failed epically. *cough cough* I can ask nicely, and discuss users with the other mods, but I don't have the power of the boot. I wouldn't either. The community polices and shapes itself. You all know when you're over the line, and of not, be assured, we will all band together and tell you so.

There are also thin-skinned newbs who think this is the Rainbow Room. I can understand why some would leave immediately.

Eplaya is more like a dog pack than anything else, so here are the rules:

Eplayans: Sniff the butt before biting the nose.
Newbies: Their growls are worse than their bites.

I have no clue who has their shots and who is rabid.
These are not my fuckos.
User avatar
AntiM
Moderator
 
Posts: 16394
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 6:23 am
Location: Top O' the World, Ma!
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Anti M's Home for Wayward Art

Postby jkisha » Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:22 pm

AntiM wrote:
There are also thin-skinned newbs who think this is the Rainbow Room. I can understand why some would leave immediately.

Eplaya is more like a dog pack than anything else, so here are the rules:

Eplayans: Sniff the butt before biting the nose.
Newbies: Their growls are worse than their bites.

I have no clue who has their shots and who is rabid.


:)

JK
JK
Image
http://www.mudskippercafe.com
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
User avatar
jkisha
 
Posts: 11403
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:00 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Mudskipper Cafe

Postby Teo del Fuego » Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:31 pm

Anti-M is probably the best moderator we've ever had or ever will have



...the clueless sparklepony!




(edited to ADD snark)
User avatar
Teo del Fuego
 
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:31 am
Location: Denver
Burning Since: 2005
Camp Name: Whiskey & Dust

Postby neon tetra » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:19 pm

On almost any messageboard, I think newbies should learn to ignore most of the folks with thousands of posts. Those are usually the people who get a bit too territorial towards the new kids on the playground.
They should also read FAQs & use the search feature.

Responding to stupidity with snark is fine, but it gets old when it's so common that it's entirely predictable.
User avatar
neon tetra
 
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:49 pm

Postby Kinetik V » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:37 pm

neon tetra wrote:On almost any messageboard, I think newbies should learn to ignore most of the folks with thousands of posts. Those are usually the people who get a bit too territorial towards the new kids on the playground.


My what a wide stereotype brush you're painting people with. If I followed that advice I would have missed out on some great content, I wouldn't have found out the Nissan dealer ripped me off, I wouldn't have found the info to force Dremel to fix a defective power tool...and as I sit here thinking about it I would be out literally thousands of dollars. In short...at least from my take that is a bad suggestion.
Kinetic V
~~~~~~
When you finally let go, only then will you learn how to live.
I bring order to chaos. And I bring chaos to those who deserve it.
User avatar
Kinetik V
 
Posts: 1642
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:43 am
Location: Fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada
Burning Since: 2002
Camp Name: Sanctuary West

Postby neon tetra » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:42 pm

Ignore was probably the wrong word.
Listen to their advice, but don't take seriously any of their anti-n00b sentiment.

As bad as this board can get, it's quite tame compared to most I've seen.
User avatar
neon tetra
 
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:49 pm

Postby gaminwench » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:59 pm

^ you weren't here a couple of years ago!
User avatar
gaminwench
 
Posts: 1722
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:57 am
Location: Shangri-la
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: DOTA, EoD, OBOP

Postby Isotopia » Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:16 pm

Each time we don't snark on a DJ an orphaned child will never find a loving parent.
User avatar
Isotopia
 
Posts: 2813
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:26 am

Postby Mojojita » Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:22 pm

It seems as if sometimes snark is a competetive sport by itself. The best form of snark mixes truth and a smack to the back of the head, Stooge style.

My very favorite newbs have been the ones to play along - and those generally stick around too. I think of it as a kind of test of what they are made of -
User avatar
Mojojita
 
Posts: 1033
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:17 am
Location: Under your bed

Postby Mosin » Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:42 pm

junglesmacks wrote:I double dog dare you to list those five.. ;)


Iso
Iso topia
Isotopia
I so top ya
I'msofuckinsnarky

(ok, I made the last one up)
Come down with fire - Lift my spirit higher -Someone's screaming my name - Come and make me holy again....
User avatar
Mosin
 
Posts: 358
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 11:16 am
Location: Highland, CA
Burning Since: 2007

Postby ygmir » Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:47 pm

yeah, don't listen to those ass-hats with high post counts.
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
User avatar
ygmir
 
Posts: 25996
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Location: nevada county
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: qqqq

Postby Mosin » Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:51 pm

ygmir wrote:yeah, don't listen to those ass-hats with high post counts.


I have not noticed a relationship between post count and snarky dickishness. Have you?
Come down with fire - Lift my spirit higher -Someone's screaming my name - Come and make me holy again....
User avatar
Mosin
 
Posts: 358
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 11:16 am
Location: Highland, CA
Burning Since: 2007

Postby ygmir » Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:56 pm

Mosin wrote:
ygmir wrote:yeah, don't listen to those ass-hats with high post counts.


I have not noticed a relationship between post count and snarky dickishness. Have you?


well, not from my point of view.
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
User avatar
ygmir
 
Posts: 25996
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Location: nevada county
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: qqqq

Postby neon tetra » Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:57 pm

gaminwench wrote:^ you weren't here a couple of years ago!


I've been on here a few times over the years, but never bothered making an account.

Mainly because, like a lot of boards, there was this hierarchy of nerds who spend way too much time on the internets & think they own the place.
I've seen people be downright mean to folks for no reason.

That said, some of the clueless n00bs, especially the dumb frat-boy & ditzy sparkle-pony types, really piss me off. So I could see why people would be hesitant to be overly-welcoming.

But it's still a public forum, and not a tree-house.
User avatar
neon tetra
 
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:49 pm

Postby AntiM » Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:25 pm

Ah, but some days it is a tree house. Ever been in the bar threads?

I encourage the use of the plonk (ignore) feature.
These are not my fuckos.
User avatar
AntiM
Moderator
 
Posts: 16394
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 6:23 am
Location: Top O' the World, Ma!
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Anti M's Home for Wayward Art

Next

Return to Open Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests