The Pier

Postby Tin Halo » Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:31 am

Yeah, location's been a point crossing my mind over the course of this discussion.

fbcota had ruminated about a bar in the bait shop. Among the other reasons I don't think that's a good idea, is, what if he decides to build it way out on the playa, with a view back towards the city? Or a view that includes the Man and the temple? Deep playa is no place for a bar, imho. Diffuses the power of the art. Besides, there's probably going to be a bar car cruise through there on occasion.
But the point I'm making, here, is in my view, it oughta be out deep, somewhere. Personally, I think it'd be cool if there was a sweeping vista of the Man and the temple, with the city as a backdrop, perhaps. In any case, its interactiveness would enhance the 'art as a destination' aspect of any playa installation. I remember the joy, the payoff I felt wandering all the way out to the deep, to view installations, in '04. One in particular--name escapes me--was a tree, covered in pictures, tokens hanging from the branches. One of the things I enjoyed about it the most is I forgot how far away from the city it was, 'cause once I got there I was so enamored with the piece; there was such a sense of comfort, of activity, of completeness, and it was only jolted when I'd look back and see how far the temple and the city were.
I don't know that the pier should be so far out, but somewhere out, and away... a destination.
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Postby Token » Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:01 am

Tin Halo wrote:...I remember the joy, the payoff I felt wandering all the way out to the deep, to view installations, in '04. One in particular--name escapes me--was a tree, covered in pictures, tokens hanging from the branches.


[sarcasm font]Now why do you have to make it so personal ...[/sarcasm font]

:)
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Postby Tin Halo » Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:09 am

Bitch caught me!



Fuck.




:D
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Postby fbcota » Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:55 pm

No hanging Token on art projects. Unless, he makes wind chime sounds in the wind. :p

I have done 2 deep playa art installs and I love the deep playa. But I have been thinking about this piece as an on or near esplinade piece for most of its life. I really liked the idea of walking down 4:30 and seeing a pier poking out towards the man.

I would be up for putting it farther out if it fact turned out to be a destination. Ideas?
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Postby Tin Halo » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:52 pm

"for most of its life"? Are you planning on having the thing on wheels so we can get it hauling ass then ram it into the Man just before he falls?

That would be spectacular, really. One can only dream...


I don't think one can decide, beforehand, if this is going to be a destination or not. It seems to me that simply by placing it properly, it becomes one. There are so many things that are destinations, all within the city or nearby, that putting the Pier out there automatically makes it a place to travel to, to hang. Some will want to simply sit on it and get lost in memories or plans. Others will want to view other deep art then take shade for a few minutes before returning to the city. The art cars that are boats, they will want to head out there, 24/7, and congregate at will; imagine the sight of 3 or 4 boat art cars all docked at the Pier, especially at night...way the fuck out there. (That would essentially re-scale the event at viewer's level, bigger than it is.) One big payoff, of course, would be the view of the Man and the temple.
Granted, the biggest drawback to having the Pier out that far is getting shit out there and back, for install and teardown. That will probably suck Eric Cartman's shweaty balls. However, I'd think it would be preferable than trying to avoid build or teardown drunk and douchebag interference by having it near Esplanade.
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Postby Miles » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:53 pm

i like the idea of it coming out from the esplanade, more like an actual pier coming out from the shore. A launching point into the deep.
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Postby Snow » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:32 pm

I like the whole idea, especially jutting out from the esplanade. What about adding some bamboo for an asian feel, especially lashed together with ropes. Even better if it looks rickety. It could be a facade over the "real" structure.

I think it would make a great gathering place. We did the rock opera pyramid a few times and I still get feedback on what a great place it was to sit and take a break and still look over the city. Our last one was only 15' tall but felt much taller due to the narrowness of the platforms and steepness of the stairs.

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Postby zcassidy » Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:35 pm

I've been dropping in daily to get caught up on this thread in particular and I have been thinking about the placement of the pier as well. I like the idea of it beginning at Esplanade (4-330?) but I am not sure about how I picture the bar. What if the bar itself was not attached, maybe 30 feet away, just enough distance to provide a view of the pier and the people exploring it. I imagined a bar at the beginning of the pier distracting people (it would at least distract me, most bars do) from the long walk to the end. Also, if the bar gets busy then it might create a mob of people in front of the pier and take away the long look from beginning to the end and the man in the distance. Just a thought.

Keep thinking everyone! This has been a really exciting process watching everyone throw their imaginations together. I hope that we can all stand on the tangible pier next year and sing a song in her name.

By the way, wouldn't a pier look great on fire? Burning the right to passage.
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Postby zcassidy » Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:39 pm

After thought: Bar under the dock? Take advantage of the shade provided (one less roof to build) and keep the bar/pier one unit.
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Postby thirt33n » Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:44 pm

Keep thinking everyone! This has been a really exciting process watching everyone throw their imaginations together. I hope that we can all stand on the tangible pier next year and sing a song in her name.





shit. all this time i thought it was an asexual pier.


the pier will be a draw wherever it is.
my original imagery of it was starting in deep playa and going even deeper......i'm just lookin forward to swingin my legs off of it.
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Postby fbcota » Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:53 am

Damn, the reason why I like the idea of the pier on the esplinade is that it really talks to this idea of a boundary between the city and the playa. It helps define the shoreline and mentally prepare people for a journey out to sea. Many people will experience it, lots of play, spontaneous events, fishing parties, etc,...

I like the idea of it in the mid or deep playa as a destination. An isolated oddity in a sea of creativity. Its a resting place, a shady spot, part of an isolated fantasy. One person has a chance to stand on the pier alone and let their mind wander.

Both ways I really hope people will focus on the experience of being on the pier. I don't want the end of it to be something people go to, look around and walk back from. Babylon was great as it was easy to stop and look around at any point. But it also showed that most people are obsessed with climbing to the top or getting to the end. Hmmmmm, how do we remind people to think about the journey. How do we reproduce that feeling of walking across an unknown bridge or out to the end of an unknown dock? I have thought the whole time that the boards need to be rough, with odd spacing, uneven and out of level, generally fealing unsafe to force people to pay attention. But there needs to be more then a rickidy deck without a railing,.....hmmmm. I think the little details will help with this, not sure though. Maybe more viewfinders in the middle of the pier. Little destinations across the entire structure?

thirt33n: Ohhh, I cannot wait to swing my legs off of it. One of my favorite childhood memories has been swinging my legs off the ends of piers. Its especially appropriate that my childhood was during a major draught and lost the piers were out of the water.

zcassidey: I'm leaning away from the bar at the moment. There will be a "bait shop" hopefully for gear, gennies, etc,... and maybe room to have someone do some improv in it, maybe,... Although I am hoping the community steps up and populates it the same way they do real piers. Would be so cool having hawkers all allong the pier. People doing bike tricks, kids on dates,...

Snow: shoot me a PM. Would love to chat, get a beer. I would like to integrate some bamboo. Just need to find some for cheap. Bamboo would be great to tie off to the supports and attack the paper laterns too. Hmmm,.....

Tin Halo: Shit, 300 ft pier ramming speed. Gwahahahahahahaha,..... Im not worried about build issues beyond having the time to build it. Before gates we can camp at the art project if we like and people give you all the space you need. Tear down would not happen until Monday at the earliest. My only concern with placement is where it "artistically" works best. Half the art is appearance. The other half is in the interaction. Would be so cool to have what looks like the BRC yacht club gathered in the deep playa fueling a big dance party on the pier. I do wonder if it will look a bit like the monorail though sitting in the deep playa.

One idea I started playing around with was having a bit of the decking missing in the middle of the pier, with the appropriate caution tape around it. I love the feel of old dilapidated piers. I also love feeling a bit rebelious going around the warnings and moving on.
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Postby Pink Daddy » Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:58 am

The amount of rope is determined by the size of the wood it's wrapped around. Take the circumference (Circumference = diameter x Pi (or 3.1415) for those who've forgotten the formula) and multiplying it by 1.25 of how many wraps you want around the pole. That's how much rope you need for a simple coxcombing. The one in the last picture I posted takes only 15 minutes to make with that size of rope. I can also splice a loop at the other end for art cars to fake-moor to the pier.

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BTW, I think that it would be really awesome to BURN this pier. The flames would be incredible. It would be emotional for me because I strongly dislike being in the Navy...
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Postby fbcota » Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:54 am

To burn or not to burn?

I just don't know. hmmmmmmm,....
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Postby Bob » Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:30 am

That's a lot of fuel, would be a shame to waste it.

Cleanup is a bitch, though. What's the plan for that?
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Postby Tin Halo » Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:43 am

I understood it was to be dismantled and the remains donated to someone or something for re-use.

But I could be wrong. I often am.
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Postby AntiM » Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:30 am

What's the name of the camp with the surfboards and the lifeguard station? That's the Esplanade camp you want to be placed across from. Maybe not, but might be cool?

That way there would be a bar nearby, but not the pier's bar, just as it would be in real life.

Does anyone else have Sitting on the Dock of the Bay running through their mind each time they open this thread?
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Postby ygmir » Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:04 pm

AntiM wrote:What's the name of the camp with the surfboards and the lifeguard station? That's the Esplanade camp you want to be placed across from. Maybe not, but might be cool?

That way there would be a bar nearby, but not the pier's bar, just as it would be in real life.

Does anyone else have Sitting on the Dock of the Bay running through their mind each time they open this thread?


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Postby gaminwench » Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:09 pm

I love this idea, I think it will work no matter where it's placed...

Esplanade will make it more accessible to the general population ( I really like AntiM's suggestion of teaming up with the 'Playa Surfers");
however, a deep playa install would give it a much more peaceful, isolated, defined experience ( on the main drag, it'll never feel 'quiet' or 'lonely' ); would also make the artBoat parties feel more 'out at sea'...

My favorite bar, this year, was a deep playa saloon... swinging door, a few chairs/tables, and a bar with a water cooler full of "I dunno, whatever they put in it today"... one bartender at a time, who filled a cooler at camp & brought it out for his shift... maybe you team up with a playa bar, so you don't have to deal with that aspect, but request placement close by... or have a mobile dinghy bar that anchors nearby...

Looking forward to jammin under the pier with a doowop group ( this fulfills (most of) my personal pier memory moments)...

Thanks for this...
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Postby Pink Daddy » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:16 am

gaminwench wrote:however, a deep playa install would give it a much more peaceful, isolated, defined experience ( on the main drag, it'll never feel 'quiet' or 'lonely' ); would also make the artBoat parties feel more 'out at sea'...


I like this. But, then again, I'm a huge fan of deep playa art installations. I'm now imagining a bunch of art cars 'moored' to the pier and having a huge as party. It would be so rad...

gaminwench wrote:My favorite bar, this year, was a deep playa saloon... swinging door, a few chairs/tables, and a bar with a water cooler full of "I dunno, whatever they put in it today"... one bartender at a time, who filled a cooler at camp & brought it out for his shift...


This was my favorite deep playa art from my first burn. I'm so bummed that it was there again this year and I missed it... boo...
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Postby fbcota » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:02 pm

was talking about burning the pier with a friend and i know it sounds funny but how do you burn a 300ft long pier to the ground without spending allot of money
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Postby zcassidy » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:23 pm

Thats a good question. I know next to nothing about burning large structures but I can imagine it would take up a large slice of this projects budget. Money that could go to adding more aesthetic layers to the pier? I would love to see it burn but without knowing more about how to accomplish that it puts me on the fence.

Some people have mentioned the song "Sitting on the dock of the bay." This is one of my favorite songs ever. When I was listening to it today I imagined an older lady singing it into a mic halfway down the pier. A live mic, maybe some small drums or a washboard and spoons, somewhere on the pier would add an outlet for self expression. I would love to try my Otis Redding late night under the lantern light.
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Postby Bob » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:40 pm

fbcota wrote:was talking about burning the pier with a friend and i know it sounds funny but how do you burn a 300ft long pier to the ground without spending allot of money


That's why they call it 'money'.

Illumination Village used to burn 300' canvases, but they're somewhat easier to clean up.
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Postby Tin Halo » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:52 pm

fbcota wrote:was talking about burning the pier with a friend and i know it sounds funny but how do you burn a 300ft long pier to the ground without spending allot of money


You get a butt-ton of campers who will donate a few cups of gasoline, each, then lead a procession to the Pier, ceremonially pour it, and get them all to light it.



Of course, AFTER we get the audio equipment'n'shit out of the bait shop.
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Postby fbcota » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:24 am

Zcassidey: If that happened it would be magic on so many levels. I have no idea how to encourage people to perform on the structure beyond leaving a selection of insturments and amps on it (not an option unfortuantely). I wonder, I want to do a "peir rules" sign. Maybe I can incorporate something that encourages people to use it as a stage. Hmmm, Ideas. Anyone have an idea of how to build or decorate or label it to encourage people to do cool creative things on it. Do I just need something that says "yes, this is a stage. You don't need to tiptoe around it like your in a fucking gallery."

Tin Halo: Not a bad idea. Although I wonder how "safe" gasoline is (evaporates, toxic fumes, etc,...). We were thinking of gel accelerants. 1 idea I had was to dissasemble the decking and make a stack of wood at the base of each pole. Then light each one like a fire. Pro: Cheap. Con: not a bunch of fireworks and streams of fire running up and down the structure.
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Postby Tin Halo » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:37 am

There's also playa surface considerations to be made, too. Can't just go burning stuff on the playa without prep to reduce or avoid scarring.

It just occurred to me... one person with a chainsaw goes down the Pier, cuts the Pier at the 12-foot section points; four people--one on each support--pick it up, and haul ass out to the Man, toss the section in. Next section follows shortly after, etc.
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Postby AntiM » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:41 am

You have seen the crowds around the Man on burn night?
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Postby Pink Daddy » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:58 am

I've seen tons of art thrown ontop of the man on burn night, not exactly RIGHT after he drops...

...but I think it would be a little too heavy to try and carry the pier sections out there. The only thing you have to do different, prep-wise, to burn it is get a burn platform underneath it. It basically consists of crushed granite, I believe. You see it under all the art that gets burned out there. Then, the crushed granite gets hauled away with the ashes for clean-up. The earth guardians work closely with all art projects that go up in flames. Taking home bags of ash and granite is much lighter than taking home piles and piles of wood.

Just imagine how impressive it would be to have a 300' long bonfire!
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Postby Tin Halo » Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:44 am

Almost as impressive as the transpo power and expense required to bring that much granite out into the middle of Nevada. :shock:
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Postby Tin Halo » Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:46 am

Know what would be cool? The night that the Pier is to fall, strap small loads of C4 underneath it, running down the middle of it like a spine. Roll video camera.
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Postby Snow » Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:23 pm

You don't have to haul granite into Nevada, we have plenty of it here. Hell even the mountain range extending north from Gerlach is called the Granite Range. That aside it would be a hell of a lot of DG to spread. You need to have 6" underneath your art.

we can surely make fire happen :wink:
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