The Pier

Postby Tin Halo » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:16 pm

You mean like.... Exodus?


It's no different than any art car, bar, or theme camp... if it's full, don't be a dumbass.
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Postby Shoeshine » Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:21 pm

1st - please use if you think it'll help... I could ruminate more... (ad nauseum)

2nd - I gottta second the barnacles. Even if it was just texture paint from a hopper, or insulation foam (great stuff) etc... If you applied heavy and then hit it with a spray paint rattle can, light from the bottom darker from the top, I think you could get a good effect. Barnacles tend to cluster up at tide line. probably wouldnt take too much material.

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3rd - I probably have more on my plate than I can even contemplate with a project I've been invited to help on next year. But like I said, this really resonates with me. Pink Daddy is our San Diego regional contact so If I can help feed into anything he is doing with local research/contacts/resources (obviously we are a coastal community). Dont hesitate to shoot me a message.

4th - you got me thinking about how I could modify a cast net with foam covered weights to actually be able to "reel in" a few "catches" -damn- :P

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Postby Token » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:02 pm

Why not stick some suitable lumber into the ocean now and see how many barnacles you get by August?
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Postby Tin Halo » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:18 am

Ooooh... then bring 'em out to the playa for some authentic odor! I like it.
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Postby Pink Daddy » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:50 am

My only concern about real barnacles (aside from it sucking to deal with hauling and installing it) would be the MOOP factor. It wouldn't take much for them to be knocked off.

Eric wrote:BWAHAHAHAHAHNAHAHAHA!

I just snorted eggs, you bastard!


Ow, that must have hurt. Just walk it off, you'll be ok...
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Postby Tin Halo » Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:24 am

Okay, see... that was a joke, son.
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Postby zcassidy » Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:31 pm

This is such an awesome idea! I hope I'm lucky enough to get caught on the pier during a night time whiteout.

You guys covered so many neat ideas... Here are some more suggestions.

It might be a good idea to have some small buoys placed between the art car and pier to prevent damage from either while the car is being parked. You could attach some onto the pier and leave them their permanently to designate parking spots?

If you did opt for ladders along the pier a fishnet style rope ladder with sea creatures (and possibly some darkwads) tangled into it would be cool.

Great ideas everyone! I am really looking forward to this. Maybe I can make a donation to your 'bait shop?' What color neon are the ravers biting on in August?
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Postby fbcota » Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:36 pm

Hahaha, now I have to be all organized and shit. Need to make notes on who is up for helping and try to keep them somewhere to be found.

I will try to PM everyone who has offered to help. If you are up for helping, PM me or email me with a quick hello and such so I can start building a list.

Ok, on to feedback,....

zcassidey: I plan on using tires on rope hung from the side of the pier as bumpers for the "boats". Its what they use in developing countries and it seems to work well enough there :). If I can find any of the old plastic bumpers that are used on first world piers I will add some of those.

A fishing net "ladder" could be a solution. I think that's an interesting idea. Right now I am of the school that I want people to have to earn getting to the end of the pier. I do not want people to be able to "pop up" to the end of the pier. So any ladder or nets that are easily climbable will be towards the middle of the pier. If people can climb a pole 12 ft up then they earned it. I have been kinda thinking it would be fun to have a "reward" at the end of the pier. Maybe a sculpture by another artist, a fishing cooler filled with goodies, etc,... The end of the pier may also be bigger, kinda like this

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/sco/b/b0/Pier.jpg[/img]

I'm cool with it getting congested :p. Will make it feel even more asian.

Token: Joke or no joke, real barnicles would suck. Sharp, smelly, moopy. I wish aging the wood in water was reasonable but all the weight from the wet wood would make it pretty hard to manage.

Shoeshine: Ruminate on,... Back to barnacles. If I can find a non moop bomb solution for barnacles then I say its a go. The insulation foam has a tendency to break apart easily. I'm sure there are other options. Barnacles though would need a couple dedicated on playa "Barnacle people". Dude a net with foam weights is genious. Man, sounds like I have some fishermen already covered!

Buckycat: I would love to see that install. Sounds like madness "making" wood. It was probably pretty breathtaking. It would be cool to have some kind of splinters that were heavy enough not to become moop.

Pink Daddy: Go crazy on the life rings. I don't mind if they are real and kinda painful or nerf style. I personally think BM should be a bit more dangerous and this pier is no exception. Splinters, odd gaps, no railing, hidden chainsaws,.... ok no chainsaws,....maybe. They will need a long rope that is tied to the pier. I don't think they will walk away. Past 2 years art projects have been safe. But they were both deep playa. Different kind of people on the esplinade.[/img]
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Postby AntiM » Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:56 pm

I have two or three small decorative fishnets (colorful) I could send if they'd be of use.
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Postby fbcota » Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:57 pm

Ok, there are a ton of things that can be done outside of the build:

1.Props, props, props.

The project needs a ton of props. Anyone near the ocean could be a huge help in tracking down old nets, ropes, fishing gear, bouys, plastic bumpers, small boat parts, fishing supplies and gear, crab traps, etc,... The nastier the better.

Other props include:

possible "Bait Shop" sign.

A couple odd pier signs, like a "peir regulations" sign that we could write over the rules with our own, "No falling off the end, put on shoes or get splinters hippie, leave your mutant vehicle in the water, expect snarky seamen (maybe someone could write "on your face" in sharpie)". Looking for a "ferry schedule" blackboard.

Bench's, lights and light stands, a veiwfinder (I hope this can be found or made, paper machete and binoculars) etc,...

2. Audio. We could build an audio team outside of Reno. Hard part is getting all the gear together. If we can get people to donate old small speakers, cabling, a car deck, ipod or 2 etc,... I'm hoping to raise some money through kickstarter, maybe a grant and fundraisers but I'm not holding my breath.

3. Camp Logistics. This will be a BIG crew, at least for me. About 20 people on playa 2 weeks early. Need all the camp support people. Beats, food, beer. Need to track down a way to build or transport a "room" that is isolated from the dust for everyone to refresh in. Longest I have been out there is 15 days and I started to go a little mad. It was fun, but would have been nice to escape the dust for an hour or so once in awhile.

4. Transport. AHHHHHHHH. No idea how I am getting this out to the playa. 5-6 tons of wood. Massive loads. A flatbed semi would work but its big money. Maybe lots of trips from Reno, not sure,....

5. Genny, batteries and solar. Need help with this one. Trying to gather all of it for use during build and project life.

I'm sure there is more. Gwaaaaaaaaa,..... :)
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Postby fbcota » Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:59 pm

How the hell is this topic still on topic. Its page 3,.... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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Postby Tin Halo » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:41 pm

Okay, here's the deal with audio:

One can't just go sticking speakers on amps and expect them to work, ESPECIALLY if we're gonna cover 300 feet and need multiple speakers on 2 channels. Impedances have to match, and the speakers need to be wired in a certain way in order to maintain correct impedance, otherwise the amp can work too hard and self-destruct. On one hand, the idea already crossed my mind to have people stop by thrift stores and pick up a few of the millions of discarded stereo systems made in the past decade. The speakers are generally good; it's usually the LED readout, or the cassette player (!), or the CD player or some other aspect of the main unit that cause people to say 'fuckit'.

I've been investigating car audio options because they use less power and sometimes come in odd impedances; standard home stereo stuff is generally 8 ohms, and car stuff can range from 2 ohms to 16 ohms (many are 8 ), depending on application and manufacturer. What I'm shooting for is a car unit with a CD player at minimum, USB stick would be ideal. Here's why: The CD player, while we could set it on infinite loop, would use more power than a USB stick reader, because there's 3 motors in every CD player. USB = no moving parts, less power use. PLUS--and this is a big one--you could use two or three car batteries in parallel, get longer run times, and use an RV solar charging panel to keep the units close to optimal power all day. If we can assemble a collection of 6x9 coaxial car speakers, or 6" coaxial car speakers, to put in the fake rocks, all the better. We're not trying to achieve sonic masturbation here, just a good playback on ocean sounds.

The only drawback I can see with car audio stuff is avoiding units that require semi-complex interaction with ignition circuits to turn on. I hate that.
Still, I'm optimistic that we can find a wanna-be/no-name brand of head unit, amp, and speakers, used, probably on craigslist or freecycle. The amp needs to have considerable beef... 50, 60 watts isn't gonna cover it. 100 watts, minimum, is what we'll need.

So, alla youse gaiz out dere, listen up: Start putting the word out, keep your eyes peeled, all that stuff. Pick it up cheap or free--I've given you some fairly specific guidelines.
In summary:
• In dash head unit that plays USB sticks, CD at minimum
• 6x9 coax or triax/ 6" or bigger round coax or triax, speakers. 8 ohms (although 4 ohms is acceptable, too, depending on how it's wired.)
• 2 channel amp, 100 watts output (not peak output, steady output) or better. Two 2-channel amps will be awesome, less trouble to amplify.

Oh, and wire. The smaller the gauge number, the better; 16 gauge wire is too thin to cover the distances we need, as it'll offer too much resistance to the amp. Better to shoot for 12 or lower. And 300 feet of it should do just fine.
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Postby fbcota » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:49 pm

Cool, Ill put the word out.

Yay, people who know what they are talking about.
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Re: The Pier

Postby toaster » Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:08 pm

fbcota wrote:I'm building a 300ft long south east asian style pier next year. About 6ft wide and 300ft long, it will start on the playa and rise at about a 2.5 degree angle making the end about 12 ft tall. The pier itself will be built from a mix of new wood (for the frame itself) new and old poles and reclaimed decking and wood to give it an old, 3rd world feeling.


Cool!
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Postby Pink Daddy » Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:46 pm

Ok, so I'm not sure how my A.D.D. has kept me from mentioning this sooner...

I'm actually in the U.S. Navy. My job is a Boatswain's Mate (The irony of my rating initial being BM) and two of the things that I'm taught, as part of my job, is nautical heritage and seamanship. I can create actual rope designs on all of the vertical posts. Here's a picture of what I mean...

Image

Granted, this is more intricate and detailed than what would be necessary, but it gives you an idea of what I know how to make. Each pole, depending on the design, can take a few hours to create. But, I would be able to hold a quick tutorial for a handful of people, to make it look more realistic. Another contributing factor would be the amount of rope we would get and the size of the rope. The larger the rope, as long as it's still manageable, the easier it is to cover a larger area.

Also, I can either mimic lashings or actually lash some wood together for the design. If a handrail was determined to be necessary, a lashed handrail would have a very authentic look to it...

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Postby Shoeshine » Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:08 am

Re: Bait shop sign.

There was a booth on the the St. Pete (outside Tampa) marina docks for years called the "Fishing-Master" baitshop. The nice bit is the sign did not call attention to the fact. "master" was in large characters, with "bait" in a different font below.

It was kind of a local game to see how long you could bring it up in conversation before someone got it.

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Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:29 am

Wow, Pink Daddy, nice.

Could you give tutorials on tying knots to cover tarps on trailors? The whole mooping on the road home thing.

I'm sure you could get people tieing rope recreationally if you showed them a few. A camp seminar sort of thing.
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Postby Gravybrain » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:40 am

I sure hope this makes it, sounds awesome as piers were a huge part of my childhood
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Postby Gravybrain » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:40 am

I sure hope this makes it, sounds awesome as piers were a huge part of my childhood
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Postby thirt33n » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:12 am

@ :49 this guy talks about you Pinkdaddy.
har har.

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Postby Pink Daddy » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:48 am

theCryptofishist wrote:Wow, Pink Daddy, nice.

Could you give tutorials on tying knots to cover tarps on trailors? The whole mooping on the road home thing.

I'm sure you could get people tieing rope recreationally if you showed them a few. A camp seminar sort of thing.


Are you referring to creating a net with rope or just lashing the tarp down on something? Either way, it would be fairly easy to give tutorials.

I'm down for whatever is needed.

Nice vid, 13.
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Postby fbcota » Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:50 pm

Pink daddy: Wow, that is impressive. I wish we could use it but its a bit too pretty for this project. Although, tying off a railing (if we have one) would be pretty rad. Hmmm,..... I have been thinking about putting a railing at the very end. Its more of a "Don't ride your bike off the end" railing. I don't mind people jumping it by choice, just don't want someone riding off the edge if they don't want too :P.

Shoeshine: A Master Baiter sign was already on my mind. Although, I think the one you are referencing may work even better. Maybe the sign could be something along the lines of "Jim's Bait Shop. Internationally certified Master Baiter" or "don't just bait when you can master bait".

Tin Halo: Lighting, (from another forum). Figured I would bring some of it over here. Don't want to hijack your post with my posts :P. Turing "throwies" on and off during the day and night can be kind of a pain. I tend to be wary of any day to day maintanence. But, this project will need multiple daily moop passes. So it could be easy enough to work the moop passes into lighting passes too. Another option is using what you had suggested. Modifying solar yard lights into the paper laterns. Then they can auto turn on and off.

I did just think. I'm not sure how bright the lights need to be. I would like to have them light the surface of the pier at night and create a nice outline of the structure from a distance. Hmmmm,.... will the ambient light from the esplinade overwhelm some medium brightness led's?
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Postby Tin Halo » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:15 am

Only your hairdresser knows for sure.
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Postby Pink Daddy » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:38 am

fbcota wrote:I wish we could use it but its a bit too pretty for this project.


There are many different fancy work that can be done. Just some simple coxcombing can make a big difference in regards to the 'feel' of a pier.

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Postby AntiM » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:57 am

Nice, PinkDaddy! MyLarry can do the nautical knot thing too, being retired Navy. He was an ET, but a boy scout too, he still carries a splicing knife given to him on his first ship. All our camp tie down ropes are beautifully spliced. My knot skills were never so highly developed, just enough to get through boot camp. I'd volunteer his help on playa, but he is usually swamped just getting our camp together.

Seminars for knots? Bondage Camp does that, nephew went, learned the knots, and helped secure shade structures the rest of the day.
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Postby drucake » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:38 am

i really wish you all the best in this project! its a great idea and sound like it will be a lot of fun. i think its great how everyone is coming together for this. this community does have its down falls as im sure we have all seen on eplaya but we can also shine....and its times like this that its really great to see total strangers come together for the love of art and community. yay for us!
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Postby Miles » Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:53 am

cooool! love the idea-

It's interesting because even though it's a 'passive' piece of art, it has so many possibilities of interaction- a blank canvass of sorts.


There's gonna be a lot of room (and shade!) under the pier too....maybe some hammocks or rope-hanging-places would be a cool place to chill out under there.

*edit*
might be a good place for me to do some deep playa bike repair actually....
I like bikes and stuff
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Postby fbcota » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:33 pm

Miles: I'm really hoping people will go and take it over at times. I feel like its interactive art,... I was actually just thinking today about how cool it would be if a band played at the end of the pier.

Only drawback is all that shade will be close to town, so my deep playa friends will have to find it on the way out to the nothing.

Eplaya has a code. I used to bitch about it, but now I find it pretty fun. Its a game of cat and cat,...

Pink Daddy: Your right, some nice ropework around the base of the poles would add a ton of character. How long does the rope need to be to do something like that? Hmmm, if for some reason I need to add a railing a rope railing would be nice.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:04 pm

Well, once the it rises high enough, it provides its own shade. Although next to or underneath, not on the planks themselves.
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Postby FIGJAM » Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:56 am

What about putting it somewhere between the man and the temple?

What a view for the burns! :D
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