The Pier

Postby thirt33n » Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:04 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPoPMXY4Yyo[/youtube][youtube][/youtube]
blow.
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Postby Shoeshine » Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:42 pm

Believe it or not, that really resonates with the theme for me.

I grew up in florida on the gulf coast and many of my "rites" (ahem) as a teenager took place on the docks. It was one of the few places that us underagers could go drink a beer or two (or 10) get frisky and loud and not deal with the cops. We just got a smile, a knowing grin, and a "get the fuck out of my way, and if you puke... do it on the lee side where the bait fish are" from the commercial fishermen going to work at 3-4 AM.

doing so now in my 40's would be a fucking trip.

such said, I'm bringing a cast net. See if I can catch me a few playa mullet.
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Postby fbcota » Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:19 pm

This is all incredible feedback. I am trying to plan this thing based on available financing. So it will most likely be planned in phases. Phase 1 just the pier with basic lighting, phase 2 add full props, phase 3 more complex lighting and sound, phase 4 bouys, a bait shop (I love it, we were thinking of a bar but a bait shop holding everything would be so cool).

Rails: Yea, I am pretty firm on no rails at the moment. I want the thing to feel unsafe to a point. I kinda think BM has gotten a little too safe. When I first came up with the idea I was thinking about missing planks, but that went a little too far.

Bouys: I have to think about this one. I really like the idea but the costs are kinda high unless I can recover some old ones. It would be so cool having a couple sitting on the playa with some chain going down into playa. Kinda a testement to Old Lake Lahontan drying up. On a pole or pvc is a really cool idea too.

Speakers: I really, really, really want to have audio. At this point its just a budget/time concern. If I can find the money and a good way (like the bait shop) to implement it then its a go. I think audio would add so much character. There are a ton of setups that could be done, 4-5 wave speakers that fade front to back or left to right down the pier. A couple ambient noise speakers with birds, bells, foghorns, etc,... Gah, a real foghorn,.... hmmmm?

As for hiding the speakers and wire there are all kinds of options. I may go smart and run conduit to keep all the electrical safe for the week, I can hide that on the underside of the frame. The fake rocks work for speakers, or they can be built into the structure.

Pink Daddy: Soft rings are brilliant. If you want to make some, please go for it, in spring :P. I'm 90% to build this project next year. The other 10% is based on the small chance of a friends bigger project getting funding (doubtful) and typical what can happen in 1 year stuff. But I'm pretty married to this project at the moment :). I like the idea of labeling the rings with USS Sanity, etc,...

Lights are key, if I can afford them. I'm thinking on a budget bright yellow leds with paper laterns around them would be super cool. Going with the SE Asian style means I should be able to scrounge and scrimp to make it work. I am already researching recovering peirs from burn sites, I'm sure there is an easy, cheap way to make paper laterns!

I have been back and forth on the poles in the playa thing. This project is going to weigh between 4-5 tons (yep, its 2 tons in 2x6's alone). However it doesn't hurt to drive maybe every other pier into the playa. Its not so bad digging large holes in the playa and DPW is pretty damn helpful when it comes to making holes when asked nicely (I give DPW a load of shit, but I love those guys and gals. I will do just about anything if you have a beer :P). Every other post is 30 holes, we dug 6 holes in 30 minutes 2 years ago, so a day of hard labor but its doable.

Tin Halo: If your up for helping I have a place for you. I think I will need about 20 people for as much as 2 weeks early to a couple days early. It won't be pretty, camp shade may be the pier, but its a whole lot of fun.

RainbowRaccoon: I don't want to do steps. Its easy enough to do without steps. I think steps may be a budget option only if I am forced to do it.

Thirt33n: I like the ladders thought. They could be a bit of a chore to climb giving people a reward at the end (being on the pier). It helps with the illusion of an old water level. Oooohhh, I wonder I could stain the piers a different color below the "water line",....

Shoeshine: Can I use that in the grant proposal :p. Piers have always meant allot to me, and I never really thought about all the Rites of Passage I had during my life on or under piers. First kiss, first drunk, first trespass,... Please bring a net. I am a huge fan of playa shenanigans. I would cry laughing if multiple people were chucking nets and fishing for the wild playa creatures.

This idea is really sticking. With all the input its starting to feel like an art project again. I kinda felt like I was building more of a location at first. Still art, but not quite so much "high art",... whatever that means.

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm all ears!
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Postby Tin Halo » Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:34 am

fbcota wrote:This is all incredible feedback. I am trying to plan this thing based on available financing. So it will most likely be planned in phases. Phase 1 just the pier with basic lighting, phase 2 add full props, phase 3 more complex lighting and sound, phase 4 bouys, a bait shop (I love it, we were thinking of a bar but a bait shop holding everything would be so cool).


My first thought was a bar, too. Then I started thinking about LEO presence.. then the fact that the pier will eventually be several feet off the ground... and I just had this gut feeling that there'd be so much interference from LEO about safety and shit that I thought it best to make it a bait shop. A closed bait shop, actually... one that only you or campmates have access to for maintenance. However, there'd be an acceptable 'interactive' quality to it if there was a dance party for a couple hours every night.


fbcota wrote:Bouys: I have to think about this one. I really like the idea but the costs are kinda high unless I can recover some old ones.

Honestly, that was my assumption. Rarely does anything 'new' look as interesting out on the playa as does something 'used', 'recovered', recycled, etc.

fbcota wrote:It would be so cool having a couple sitting on the playa with some chain going down into playa. Kinda a testement to Old Lake Lahontan drying up. On a pole or pvc is a really cool idea too.


That's my favorite aspect of this feature. They'd be up high enough that the pole would be somewhat flexible up there, and the buoy would contriubte to the illusion, from the pier end.

fbcota wrote:Speakers: I really, really, really want to have audio. At this point its just a budget/time concern. If I can find the money and a good way (like the bait shop) to implement it then its a go. I think audio would add so much character. There are a ton of setups that could be done, 4-5 wave speakers that fade front to back or left to right down the pier. A couple ambient noise speakers with birds, bells, foghorns, etc,... Gah, a real foghorn,.... hmmmm?


Oh, a real foghorn would kick ass at 90mph.
Audio--and things related--is where I can help. I'm an audio engineer and mid-level electronics tech (among other things), so tinkering with this crap is in my genes.

fbcota wrote:As for hiding the speakers and wire there are all kinds of options. I may go smart and run conduit to keep all the electrical safe for the week, I can hide that on the underside of the frame. The fake rocks work for speakers, or they can be built into the structure.


I started brainstorming on how to make fake rocks. It involves hardware cloth and spray insulating foam.


fbcota wrote:Lights are key, if I can afford them. I'm thinking on a budget bright yellow leds with paper laterns around them would be super cool. Going with the SE Asian style means I should be able to scrounge and scrimp to make it work. I am already researching recovering peirs from burn sites, I'm sure there is an easy, cheap way to make paper laterns!


You could probably buy them on eBay in disturbingly cheap bulk from...umm...China.

fbcota wrote:I have been back and forth on the poles in the playa thing. This project is going to weigh between 4-5 tons (yep, its 2 tons in 2x6's alone). However it doesn't hurt to drive maybe every other pier into the playa. Its not so bad digging large holes in the playa and DPW is pretty damn helpful when it comes to making holes when asked nicely (I give DPW a load of shit, but I love those guys and gals. I will do just about anything if you have a beer :P). Every other post is 30 holes, we dug 6 holes in 30 minutes 2 years ago, so a day of hard labor but its doable.


I am curious what you were planning on using as the pier supports.
Actual pier supports (the large round timber), or...? 'Cause I'm thinking you could probably fins a surplus of telephone poles somewhere. If you can catch a P&L crew before they dump old oles off with the Parks & Rec department or the Forest Service, you might get very lucky.

fbcota wrote:Tin Halo: If your up for helping I have a place for you. I think I will need about 20 people for as much as 2 weeks early to a couple days early. It won't be pretty, camp shade may be the pier, but its a whole lot of fun.


I'm sure it would be. Awesome.

fbcota wrote:RainbowRaccoon: I don't want to do steps. Its easy enough to do without steps. I think steps may be a budget option only if I am forced to do it.


Steps down to 'water level' would be cool, but ultimately a pain in the ass because some drunk ass fool would be hanging off them and they would break.

fbcota wrote: Oooohhh, I wonder I could stain the piers a different color below the "water line",....


Yep.. Much darker. Almost black. Then take a small amount of lime or field chalk, and draw salt rings around the transition point.
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Postby AntiM » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:25 am

Paper lanterns can be had cheap, but you'd need to reinforce or coat them with something to make them hold up in the wind. Look at Oriental Trading for a starting point on lantern ideas.
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Postby fbcota » Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:52 am

Tin Halo: If your up for helping I would be more then happy to have you on board. If audio is going to be done then I would certainly need someone to own that portion. Past art projects have been collaborative pieces where each artist did what they could. Some carried loads, others bought wood, some worked there butts off, etc,... I think it would be cool if this project could work that way on a larger scale. Maybe have people from around the community build different aspects of the project and then bring them all out to the playa to install in the project. Audio is one of those things that as long as we bring enough wire we could easily add it to the playa install during the playa install!

Bar thoughts,...Good thoughts. The closed bait shop idea works fine.

At the moment I am all over the place for pier supports here is a picture of the pier that inspired me:

I really like the ramshackle mix of supports. Although at the same time I want to make sure its structurally sound. I am brainstorming between 4x4's, large posts, tree stumps and heavy branches. 4x4's are the lightest and easiest to transport and work with. The large posts support an enormous amount of weight, but heavy and a bit expensive. The tree parts are inconsistent, possible moop bombs, heavy, don't travel well and look really cool.

The frame of the pier is being built exactly like a deck except I am planning to prebuild 12ft long frame sections and join them on the playa. I am thinking of how many piers I want in each section, 4 makes the most sense but it also means allot more piers then I planned (about 100 as opposed to 60).

On a building note, I want to try to salvage as much wood for the project allong with keeping all the new wood in good enough shape to donate after the project is done. I thought about burning the pier but I am unsure (its allot of good wood, plus burning is another big cost. This is a project on a serious budget).

[img] http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4130/499 ... 7c28ce.jpg [/img]
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Postby Tin Halo » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:33 pm

Using your pic example... It seems a tad wasteful to have the pier supports go up so high, when you could use the wood above the pier as more pier supports elsewhere. However, that kills the rickety Asian pier vibe and moves it more into classic Western pier vibe. Doing it the first way gives you places to hang your lanterns; the second way, pushes you to require some kind of thin metal post for your lanterns. The benefit of the 1st way is simplicity, the benefit of the second way is less travel weight.
Assuming a 12 foot section, you can put a post in the middle--at 6 feet--for each section and be safe, given the kind of 2x6 spans you're expecting to build; even with 2x4 cross beams, you've got a lot of weight distribution going. Where the ends of each 12 ft section meet, if you put a support there and have it share weight-bearing duties between the ends of the two pieces, you should be golden.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:37 pm

Barnacles would be so cool.
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Postby Tin Halo » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:44 pm

We'll have that with Ravers.
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Postby fbcota » Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:59 pm

I don't think I want to extend the posts so high up. I also want to have horizontal planks more like a western pier. The look will be a mash up of western and eastern, with traits from each.

Barnacles would be soooooo cool. I wish I had an army of decorators who could cover every inch of this thing in life,...
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Postby Pink Daddy » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:55 pm

Or someone with a private beach. You could let the poles sit half in the ocean, barnacles would emerge. But, then it'd be more of a hassle not cutting yourself on them while moving or installing them. Plus, I'd think that they'd be a little MOOPy...

You could get some clam shells and glue broken pieces to the legs, that'll give it the barnacle look...
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Postby AntiM » Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:07 pm

Any way to work a rope bridge into the design?
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Postby Elorrum » Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:40 pm

Having spent a year cooking hamburgers on a pier... things I would not miss: fish guts, and salted sardine bait smashed into the seats. What I'd love to see again: the regulars who came every morning for coffee with their various carts adapted to hold all their fishing gear. That was a great year, winter at the beach was a wonderful experience.
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Postby lucky420 » Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:56 am

If you build it they will come...sounds absolutely fantastic
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Postby Tin Halo » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:46 pm

fbcota...

I'm working on audio arrangements for this project. I was recently re-acquainted with an old friend of mine, on Facebook; she's now a car audio systems rep, and has indicated that I might be able to get stuff between manufacturer and dealer cost. (She said I could, but I'm not going to hold her to that just yet.)
I work part time at an electronics supply house, now, so I've been rummaging through our stuff and picking the brains of the more experienced guys there, as well as sketching out just what it'll take to get surf covering 300 feet.

At the moment, I'm centering on the idea of a 12v mobile audio-based system, one that can be recharged and/or assisted by a solar panel (on top of the bait house). That would bring generator use down to minimum or nil. We used a solar panel for an RV, back in '04, and it kept our truck battery nice and charged while running fans for air circ inside the moving van we slept in.

So, gears are turning, out here.
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Postby fbcota » Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:10 am

Wonderful! Are you up for PM'ing me the costs so I can include them in the Grant proposal. :).

And welcome to the team!
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Postby Pink Daddy » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:01 am

I really love the concept of a joint art project. Multiple people coming together from different parts of the world for an epic art piece. Even if, for some unknown reason, I won't make it next year... whatever contribution I've signed up for, will get there.

So, I need to do homework on the soft life rings. Anything else? I should make a shark art bike...
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Postby Tin Halo » Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:15 am

Concurrently with everything else I'm researching and playing around with, I've re-discovered paper mache`. There's a whole raft of developments in it, since I was a kid in art class. Seems people are doing some amazing stuff with it; it can be made very durable, be sanded and drilled like wood, etc. So maybe your shark art bike can be made of paper mache`; I know that, since discovering the more grown-up aspects of it, I am reconsidering what kind of art I might want to bring to the party in '11.
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Postby Pink Daddy » Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:38 am

I'm focusing more on the life ring ideas, for now. I want them to look realistic, but I want to be able to throw them at people without hurting them. It would be hilarious to sit on the pier with a life ring, wait for someone to pass by, throw it at them (either hit them or not), and scream "Grab on! I'll save you! It's not safe for you down there!"

To be able to throw with any accuracy, it would have to have some weight. But, the more weight that is added, the more un-safe it becomes. I was thinking about closed-cell foam, guess I'll have to experiment.

Oh, and they need to have lanyards that can be attached to the pier, so that they don't walk off with a random Burner. It would also help to get the life ring back if someone doesn't want to play along.
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Postby Pink Daddy » Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:38 am

Double post. Sry. Umm... Here's a banana!

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Postby Lassen Forge » Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:19 pm

(Normally I'd do a courtesy delete of the double, but that banana's so cute I couldn't bear to delete it...)
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Postby Tin Halo » Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:44 pm

I'm glad you didn't... Ive been wanting a large-res of that little bastard for a long time. :D
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Postby Pink Daddy » Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:46 pm

Sweet! My accidental playa gift for you!!
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Postby Tin Halo » Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:51 pm

Pink Daddy wrote:I'm focusing more on the life ring ideas, for now. I want them to look realistic, but I want to be able to throw them at people without hurting them.

I honestly think you're worrying a little too much about this. We're talking about an event that has the Thunderdome, y'know. :lol:


Pink Daddy wrote:To be able to throw with any accuracy, I would have to have laid off the booze.


Fixed for accuracy. :D

Pink Daddy wrote:But, the more weight that is added, the more un-safe it becomes. I was thinking about closed-cell foam, guess I'll have to experiment.


Hmmm... maybe this is an opportunity to experiment with a combination of closed-cell foam AND a thin layer or two of paper mache`? You could seal the foam, get the texture you're wanting, add a smidgeon of weight, and still keep it fairly safe.

Pink Daddy wrote:Oh, and they need to have lanyards that can be attached to the pier, so that they don't walk off with a random Burner. It would also help to get the life ring back if someone doesn't want to play along.


I kind of assumed that was a given.



I've also been contemplating something regarding a foghorn, if Senor fbcota can update us with the status of that.
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Postby buckycat » Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:09 pm

Original poster:

When I read your original post, I immediately thought of an art installation I once saw. This piece was a life-size replication of an old, rotted, falling apart wooden pier. It was 50 -100' long as I recall it. There were thousands of individual pieces of "wood" that made up the pier, with lots of broken off pieces lying on the floor of the exhibition space, as if it had decayed in place right there in the gallery.

Now I say "wood," because actually all the pieces of the pier were lightweight, ceramic faux-wood pieces made by the artist through some labor-intensive technique. There were samples of this faux-wood ceramic material at the exhibition, and a behind-the-scenes video explaining it. The pieces ranged from full-size beams, to 1-inch splinters, and looked authentic, with grain and faux-rusty-nails sticking out. Quite a lot of effort.

Wish I could remember or find the piece online. I saw it in Washington DC about 15 years ago. It made an impression.
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Postby Pink Daddy » Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:24 pm

Just proves my point that 'faking it' requires more work and effort than the real thing...

...now only to convince my wife the same thing...
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Postby Eric » Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:34 pm

Pink Daddy wrote:Just proves my point that 'faking it' requires more work and effort than the real thing...

...now only to convince my wife the same thing...


BWAHAHAHAHAHNAHAHAHA!

I just snorted eggs, you bastard!
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Postby Bin Noddin » Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:52 pm

I think it should have a ladder or stairs (rickety, of course) at or near the deep end, to let people off who may not want to walk all the way back. Ease the flow of traffic maybe?
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Postby Tin Halo » Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:27 pm

Bin Noddin wrote:I think it should have a ladder or stairs (rickety, of course) at or near the deep end, to let people off who may not want to walk all the way back. Ease the flow of traffic maybe?


NO! :lol: No mercy.
Like everything else at BM... you know what you're getting into.
Don't wanna walk back to the low end? Toughashitsky. You saw what you were getting into, now get yourself out of it.
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Postby Bin Noddin » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:10 pm

If its that narrow (6') it might be a good idea to have an escape valve at the high end in the event of congestion.
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