Electric Bicycle?

Bikes, trikes, personal mobility and mutant vehicles - this is the place to discuss general transportation issues. For ride and RV shares, please go to Share Resources.

Big art car 5 mpg - someone on an electric bike - get a rope

Postby jpstiffin » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:49 am

Find me an electric big wheels and I in.
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Postby Iago » Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:16 pm

MikeVDS wrote:It was my understanding that electric bikes weren't allowed unless you registered them, either as a ranger, mutant vehicle, or handicapped. I know some of the examples above are for handicapped, but are the others registered, just sneaky, or not disallowed and I have a misunderstanding of the rules?


[quote="JRS"]Burning Man Update: The Jack Rabbit Speaks
Volume 14, Issue #32: TRANSPORTATION EDITION
August 23, 2010

As far as electric bikes go, those are allowed. As per NRS 482.0287 “Electric bicycleâ€
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Postby unjonharley » Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:07 pm

Iago wrote:
MikeVDS wrote:It was my understanding that electric bikes weren't allowed unless you registered them, either as a ranger, mutant vehicle, or handicapped. I know some of the examples above are for handicapped, but are the others registered, just sneaky, or not disallowed and I have a misunderstanding of the rules?


[quote="JRS"]Burning Man Update: The Jack Rabbit Speaks
Volume 14, Issue #32: TRANSPORTATION EDITION
August 23, 2010

As far as electric bikes go, those are allowed. As per NRS 482.0287 “Electric bicycleâ€
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Postby AntiM » Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:57 pm

unjonharley wrote:So this screws with my quadricycle with electric assist??


Yes. We would love to do ours, but don't want to run the risk of having it in the impound lot. MyLarry must pedal on. we will do the crap trike though.
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Postby geekster » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:08 pm

I saw a lot more segways this year than in years past.
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Postby gyre » Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:38 pm

unjonharley wrote:
So this screws with my quadricycle with electric assist??

Four wheeled vehicles are still issued permits for disability or as mvs.

I recently found an almost new rhoades bike locally.
If anyone is interested, I'll be happy to get more info.
It will probably go very cheap.
I'd be happy to ship it for someone.
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Postby gyre » Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:42 pm

Iago wrote:Hey Gyre, Thanlks for the links... Really helped with my research and an electric motor kit is on the way as I speak...

Glad to help.

Let us know what you got and how well it works.

I have a european made hubmotor that I want to try out.
It came off an italian bike, still one of the best deals out there.
It technically doesn't have a controller, so I hope to find one for it.

This is a common lack on cheaper units.
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Postby AntiM » Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:17 am

gyre wrote:
unjonharley wrote:So this screws with my quadricycle with electric assist??


Four wheeled vehicles are still issued permits for disability or as mvs.


Which isn't the point...the point being to give relief from pedaling a four wheeled bike. I'm guessing unjon knows the permit processes of both flavors quite thoroughly and would like to avoid the hassle.

And which is why I don't want an assist on my Rhoades; I'm not disabled enough for a permit, and I don't want to screw with the MV process for a damn bike. I would love to give MyLarry a break, he's the power plant. But if that means my bike could be impounded at the gate because it was no longer a bike, you'd better believe I'm not going to try it.
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Postby Elorrum » Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:22 am

I talked to Unjon about how survivable an electric motor might be. He assured me that a thorough blow out and cleaning after burn would ensure continuous use... I have a cyclone kit on a mountain bike, and am looking at putting same system on my trike. out of San Diego, very nice friendly supplier, loves answering questions and giving suggestions. mailed me in very short order a screw I had dropped and lost while building my set up.
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Postby FIGJAM » Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:45 am

Image

My trike worked great.

Rode everywhere and only peddled when I needed 2 wheel drive for dunes.

The 200 watt motor is a sealed unit so I didnt worry about dust.

The controler seemed pretty hot but I figured thats how it works.

The motor took 15amps per hour.

With the 105ah battery I recharged twice during the week.

The only change Ill make is to put some longer bolts to the seat so I can sleeve some old valve springs over them to releave some of the jarring to my back.

Tell me if you think this wont work. :)
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Postby gyre » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:10 am

AntiM wrote:
gyre wrote:
unjonharley wrote:So this screws with my quadricycle with electric assist??


Four wheeled vehicles are still issued permits for disability or as mvs.


Which isn't the point...the point being to give relief from pedaling a four wheeled bike. I'm guessing unjon knows the permit processes of both flavors quite thoroughly and would like to avoid the hassle.

And which is why I don't want an assist on my Rhoades; I'm not disabled enough for a permit, and I don't want to screw with the MV process for a damn bike. I would love to give MyLarry a break, he's the power plant. But if that means my bike could be impounded at the gate because it was no longer a bike, you'd better believe I'm not going to try it.

Not everyone reading this is familiar with the options.

It's a personal decision, but if you can't pedal, you do qualify for a permit.
Every person decides how they use one.

I have a disability permit and never park in handicapped parking here.
In a denser city, it would be an issue.
Stairs and pedaling is a bigger issue for me than distance...usually.
Some days I can't hobble far.
But I can't manage the distances on the playa at all.

I have actually been denied access to elevators because I didn't have proof I needed to avoid stairs.
That's when you find out why the ADA was passed.

My medical advice is contradictory.
Shock, right?
Walking more is good for the tendons, bad for the joints.
I need to do more walking for my heart, less for my knees.
Pedaling seems to just be destructive.
I did a great deal of damage my first year on a bike.
It took two years to stop waking up from the pain.

I seem to be able to manage light pedaling when properly fitted to a bike.
But the playa demands more than light pedaling, unless you have electric.


On the rhoades, is it possible to add assist to it without major work?
Some three wheelers look difficult too.

Those of you with four wheelers need to petition the llc for rules permitting a certain amount of power, on pedaled four wheelers.
Width may be an issue they want to address, perhaps by lighting or reflector protocols.
Weight is another concern.
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Postby unjonharley » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:13 am

FIGJAM wrote:Image

My trike worked great.

Rode everywhere and only peddled when I needed 2 wheel drive for dunes.

The 200 watt motor is a sealed unit so I didnt worry about dust.

The controler seemed pretty hot but I figured thats how it works.

The motor took 15amps per hour.

With the 105ah battery I recharged twice during the week.

The only change Ill make is to put some longer bolts to the seat so I can sleeve some old valve springs over them to releave some of the jarring to my back.

Tell me if you think this wont work. :)



Take a look at Rhoades Car. They have a padded seat that would fit right on your rig..

How did your (yellow) LED head light work out??

Burned a controler out going up hill here at home.. They run hot normal
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Postby gyre » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:18 am

FIGJAM wrote:Image

My trike worked great.

The only change Ill make is to put some longer bolts to the seat so I can sleeve some old valve springs over them to releave some of the jarring to my back.

Tell me if you think this wont work. :)

I think valve springs will be too stiff.
I really think hydraulics are called for.

If I can't find an adequate seat, light hydraulic dampers are available, and custom sizing isn't as expensive as you might think.
Certain types of padding are recommended to me.
I think more is needed though, with the weight of an electric.

Take note that most bike "shocks" are only springs.

I used the factory seat shock in 2009, and it seemed to be useless.
And this is on one of the lightest electrics made.
The choppiness was killing me.
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Postby FIGJAM » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:19 am

The cheap yellow light from hf worked great but the vibration kept changing the angle.

A 1x1 spacer stuck between it and the controler fixed that.

I had many cushions on the seat but some springs would realy help protect the disks in my back.
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Postby gyre » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:25 am

Sorbothane is supposed to be the best cushion.

Bigger tires are the best step.
I'll be maxing out a mountain bike, as a first step.

If that isn't enough, I'll tweak the seat.
I'm looking for the best seat I can find too.

What about closed cell rubber foam, the neoprene stuff?
Wouldn't work on a bike, but a trike has enough room for special fittings.
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Postby gyre » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:27 am

Some controllers are easy to add additional heat sinking to.

If you only have a resistance type, an upgrade is called for.
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Postby FIGJAM » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:32 am

Theres 4 bolts holding the seat.

My wieght is 190 pounds so I thought the valve springs would be the easiest first test.

If not, Then we can come up with plan B.

The no shocks at all jarring was a little to much and did limit my riding time a bit.
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Postby AntiM » Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:57 am

Our rhoadescar uses boat seats. They're pretty good, but the screws which hold the back in take a lot of stress. bad design, I'm sure we could (and will) do better.
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Postby Colonel Monk » Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:00 pm

Hey ALL:

As I mentioned pre-burn this year, I took the information of the new rule as a reason to go all out and electrify my bicycle rickshaw. It was a smashing effing success!

I was asked for my MV papers at the gate (due to a 10 minute search of some hippie's bus)and I pointed out that it has working pedals. Gate girl left to ask her supervisor and he waved us in which is what I was counting on.

Now, my rickshaw "as built" is really more tractor than trike. The law calls for a motor of 750 Watts max - and mine is surely more than that. It's capable of something like 25kW for a few seconds (like in a motorcycle with 72v pack) but at 24 volts and a fuse of 100A, the most I could get out of it would be 2400W. I would say that never happened.

I was pulling a wagon 5 feet long and 2.5 feet wide. The wagon had my substantial battery pack (260Ah @24v and 250 lbs), and could also carry 5+ people. It was very maneuverable, and the rickshaw is about 3 feet wide making it possible to ride anywhere a bike can. The most people I carried at once was 9 people - I would guess that starting with that many people pushed my motor's power over 750W but it did not take that much to keep it moving 5-7 mph. Range? We rode it more than 10 miles burn night with 3-7 people onboard.

Can it be pedalled? Barely, certainly not really with my bad knee. Takes alot to get moving by pedal, but once moving with just a few people it could be.

What I would change for next year, is that it has those thin chinese tires on it - they are burly in weight capacity (300kg per tire) but out on the open playa it was easy to get stuck and as they are high pressure it was a rough ride after the rain monday. So I'm planning to change the rickshaw's tires to motorcycle tires to give some float and better traction.

I'll consider getting an MV permit for next year, since it is really more than a bike and I would hate to be stopped at the gate, but I also don't want to be preventing another MV from qualifying. Kinda wishing there was a different category for smaller electric MVs. I definitely gave ALOT of rides, and I think there is value in having this type of transpo in BRC.
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Postby rodiponer » Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:07 pm

gyre wrote:On the rhoades, is it possible to add assist to it without major work?


Gyre,
I helped a friend add electric drive to his rhoades car. It was very easy-- the 2" square steel tubing is an easy base to make a motor mount that bolts on. Under the seat there is a sprocket that is driven by the pedals and has a free wheel clicker thing on it, so that if you add a sprocket for the motor chain to drive, the pedals won't turn when you turn on the motor. This shaft then connects to gears on the back axle, so you can control the gear ratio of the motor and get a lot of torque for sand dunes. His conversion cost about $150 for the motor, controller, and throttle, plus about $50 for the extra sprocket and chain. The batteries were the most expensive part (he used large car sized batteries).

Unfortunately, it was stolen this year on the playa. I guess he thought no one would steal such a large bike and did not lock it.
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Postby unjonharley » Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:32 pm

AntiM wrote:Our rhoadescar uses boat seats. They're pretty good, but the screws which hold the back in take a lot of stress. bad design, I'm sure we could (and will) do better.


Did those seats come with the quadricycle? Saw some pretty good ones in the sports store for about 80$
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Postby Elorrum » Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:29 pm

Image

How about a repurposed office chair? I was thinking of mounting one of these chair seats on the back of my trike. I see these dumped in our parking lot a couple of times a year. Very springy seat... might not last long, but it's not doing much good sitting in a parking lot either. Don't think it would be good to pedal from, but it would be a shock absorbing ride for a while.
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Postby AntiM » Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:36 pm

unjonharley wrote:
AntiM wrote:Our rhoadescar uses boat seats. They're pretty good, but the screws which hold the back in take a lot of stress. bad design, I'm sure we could (and will) do better.


Did those seats come with the quadricycle? Saw some pretty good ones in the sports store for about 80$


They did. I want to scour eBay and other sources as I have a smaller one seat Rhoades which needs work and a seat. Got it cheap, and we're going to dress it up in leather and spikes. I can't pedal it as is, but I can pedal it if the seat is several inches higher up and I'm not using my lower back at all. My knee hates it though, which is why we'll electrify the trike instead.

Rodiponer, sorry to hear your friend lost his quad. That sucks.
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Postby unjonharley » Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:20 pm

Elorrum wrote:Image

How about a repurposed office chair? I was thinking of mounting one of these chair seats on the back of my trike. I see these dumped in our parking lot a couple of times a year. Very springy seat... might not last long, but it's not doing much good sitting in a parking lot either. Don't think it would be good to pedal from, but it would be a shock absorbing ride for a while.



Come to think of it.. I have a machanic stool that bounces on a shock.. It has an up down lever that sets the hight but give when i sit hard.. It's the 14 $ one @ HF..
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Postby unjonharley » Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:29 pm

AntiM wrote:
unjonharley wrote:
AntiM wrote:Our rhoadescar uses boat seats. They're pretty good, but the screws which hold the back in take a lot of stress. bad design, I'm sure we could (and will) do better.


Did those seats come with the quadricycle? Saw some pretty good ones in the sports store for about 80$


They did. I want to scour eBay and other sources as I have a smaller one seat Rhoades which needs work and a seat. Got it cheap, and we're going to dress it up in leather and spikes. I can't pedal it as is, but I can pedal it if the seat is several inches higher up and I'm not using my lower back at all. My knee hates it though, which is why we'll electrify the trike instead.


Good to know Antim.. I would like the build a quad from Rhoadse idea. Was thinking of ordering seats from them.. When I get back to that sports store I'll get the name off the seats I saw..

Could go peddle electric and gas hmmm.. Gas on the open playa and recharge at the same time.. Have a 2hp lawn edger..

Rodiponer, sorry to hear your friend lost his quad. That sucks.
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Postby FIGJAM » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:51 pm

BUMP!
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Postby unjonharley » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:20 am

FIGJAM wrote:BUMP!


I have a bunch of motors and controler.. But every thing is still in the wish stage..

Been lookingg for an outlet for power (belt) pulleys that will mount to the spokd.. Most are for scooters.. To thick to go between the spok and frame..Would preferr fiber

Picked up a vintage 16 inch folding bike.. It has a nice factory installed carrier over the rear wheel.. Measured it up.. It's right for a motor in the middle and a ten ah gel battery on each end.. Would make a neat package..
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Postby FIGJAM » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:29 am

Is there a particular reason that you dont want to go with a friction drive?
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Postby unjonharley » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:37 am

FIGJAM wrote:Is there a particular reason that you dont want to go with a friction drive?


It wouls be working with a 200-250 watt motor. Would lose a bunch in transmission.. I think friction would eat up torque and battery power..
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Postby FIGJAM » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:09 am

Mine is a 200 watt motor with a 1'' drive roller.

Top speed is about 6mph with a 30 mile range for a 105ah battery.
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