Burn Barrels and free range snark

Burn Barrels and free range snark

Postby fbcota » Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:59 pm

Ok, before I turn onto a giant troll and rant a bit I want to say this years BM was amazing. Filled with wonderful art, incredible people and fun to be had all over the place.

Ok, rant on:
Why the fuck did it feel like a museum walking around the esplinade. People were silent this year, they seem sheltered and a bit isolated from the community. It seemed smiles were hard to come by and comedic snark was few and far between?

I tried night after night to engage people, start a conversation, open playa improve theatre and otherwise just be ridiculous but it seemed most wanted nothing of it. Really? Our games of tag were filled with people who just shrugged it off and walked on. Our hippie booby traps were treated like an inconvenient delay as opposed to a funny diversion. Food seemed hard to hand out (took nearly an hour to get rid of a fresh watermelon on Thursday and even longer for the avacado).

rant off

What is happening and how can we fix this? And no, I don't believe we can limit who comes, etc,... There has got to be a way to engage people who don't know how to act at BM. How do we break the virgins free of the City BS and get them to have a little fun?

On a side note, does anyone think next year needs to be a bit more dangerous?
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Postby fbcota » Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:02 pm

Ohh, and where were all the fire barrels?

We need more things on fire please. I'm bringing more next year,...
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Postby C.f.M. » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:49 am

...I thought this was going to be a thread about me on Sunday night. :cry:

Fuck the Esplanade.

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We had more snark than you could probably endure - and a couple of burn barrels.

But then, I live in Terminal City, which is pretty much the best place on earth, so I'm lucky.
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Postby fbcota » Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:05 am

I will spend more time in terminal city next year then. It takes a long time before I reach maximum snark capacity.

Ok, WTF was up with all the Segways?
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Postby Bob » Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:53 am

Apparently, Burning Man was designed to piss you off.

Good job, everyone else.
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Postby fbcota » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:24 pm

:p.

Actually, I had a blast as always. But as with any city of 50,000 I will get pissed at someone :D.

I guess my reel point is it fealt like people wern't participating as much this year. I would love to figure out a way to get everyone more involved, more participation, more community, etc,... I Figure the snarky bastards on eplaya would either have some good ideas or some fun snarky things to say. So far I'm enjoying the snark!

I was just a little cold, missing some comedic interactions, and wanting to steal every segway I saw to sell and build rad art with!
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Postby Pink Daddy » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 pm

I can't speak for the 49,998 other participants this year, but I felt that the LEO presence really affected the way that I burned this year. Usually, I welcome strangers coming to camp. I offer them a seat, a treat, a beer, or whatever I might have on me. I hear their story, tell one of my own, and make a new friend.

This year, the first few people who wandered into our camp were undercovers. It was obvious who they were and when I politely challenged them, they moved on. Instead of welcoming people this year, I was skeptic. I looked for new faces in camp and asked them who they were, if they needed help, etc. I even asked suspicious visitors to leave the camp.

I was travelling around one of the evenings and I was approached by undercovers while my head was spinning from a party favor I was given earlier in the evening. They immediately wanted to know what I was on and if they could have some. I told them that I had nothing and they immediately left. I didn't realize until later who they were. I was glad that I didn't have anything, because I wasn't in the correct mindset to identify them immediately.

I guess the LEOs just made me uncomfortable, even though I was completely legal and had no reason to be worried about anything. I don't bring drugs to Burning Man, I don't hold for friends, I don't store them typically. Yet, they're presense still affected me...
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Postby fbcota » Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:32 pm

I noticed the same thing, but I wonder how much of it was real and how much of it was paranoia. At one point a guy running a bar thought we were LEO. He asked the "are you a cop" question to which we said "No, but cops don't have to say yes." After a bit of an argument, for what reason I don't know since we were just watching out for him, he made us leave.

We had stolen street signs and an electric drill on us for gods sake!

But, I found us doing the same thing at our camp. Funny thing is I don't know anyone who got busted by undercover. I heard allot of stories but nothing first hand.

I think I may try to befriend all the undercover I think I see next year. If they are undercover, they won't find any drugs on me, if they arn't then I can welcome them into the community without the paranoia that seems to be growing. Its a shame that LEO feel the need to waste resources at Burning Man. If they spent the same effort in Reno on Meth sales I'm sure they would be much more successful. It would be a shame if this little social experiment were slowly quashed by LEO's
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:06 am

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Postby bdeywoo » Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:06 pm

fbcota wrote:There has got to be a way to engage people who don't know how to act at BM

We had stolen street signs and an electric drill on us for gods sake!


Let me get this straight, the original rant is about people at Burning Man not acting correctly??? I hope you were recovering those signs, otherwise perhaps you are part of the problem.
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Postby fbcota » Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:41 pm

I'm absolutely sure I am part of the problem.

The rant is that Burning Man this year felt a bit too much like a stuffy museum. And I love me some stuffy museums, but I also love a bit of madness. This year felt quiet, reserved, a little paranoid even. I am absolutely sure I was one of those people at times.

Ugly, I was expecting a little more from your comment, maybe a snide remark or something with a little sarcastic depth :P.

bdeywoo, Yes, I was recovering those signs for hilarity and chaos. Maybe if all of us hooligans stop stealing the signs the ticket price could go down 35 cents! On a serious note, I really enjoyed the bit of Choas I experienced after my first burn due to the missing street signs. I liked being forced to learn my locale and ask people for help. And it was nice running around and having a bit of fun years later being a direct contributor to that mess. Tell you what, Burning Man goes non-profit and I will gather every sign I can find from everyone I know and return all of them.

On an even more serious note, I had a girl pass out on me with no way to get home in 34 degree weather while it was raining this year. And not a single person wanted to help me get her to safety. It took more than an hour to track down some trusted friends to help, but everyone else seemed to just look the other way. Even the Med tent wasn't interested in helping. Same thing happened 3 years earlier when I tore my achilles on the playa.

I'm not interested in a Burning Man event that mirrors our BS real life interaction, a place where people are encouraged to just look the other way and ignore the freaks. A place of personal isolation. I'm looking for a community. That community doesn't just jump into existence and simply exist without a whole lot of personal effort.

So I guess I will re-ask and re-phrase my original question:
How can the Burning Man community welcome and introduce everyone to the event?

Or, how does one help others get out of their shell and start having a bit more fun?
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Postby Theres Always One » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:13 pm

fbcota wrote:I'm absolutely sure I am part of the problem.

The rant is that Burning Man this year felt a bit too much like a stuffy museum. And I love me some stuffy museums, but I also love a bit of madness. This year felt quiet, reserved, a little paranoid even. I am absolutely sure I was one of those people at times.

Ugly, I was expecting a little more from your comment, maybe a snide remark or something with a little sarcastic depth :P.

bdeywoo, Yes, I was recovering those signs for hilarity and chaos. Maybe if all of us hooligans stop stealing the signs the ticket price could go down 35 cents! On a serious note, I really enjoyed the bit of Choas I experienced after my first burn due to the missing street signs. I liked being forced to learn my locale and ask people for help. And it was nice running around and having a bit of fun years later being a direct contributor to that mess. Tell you what, Burning Man goes non-profit and I will gather every sign I can find from everyone I know and return all of them.

On an even more serious note, I had a girl pass out on me with no way to get home in 34 degree weather while it was raining this year. And not a single person wanted to help me get her to safety. It took more than an hour to track down some trusted friends to help, but everyone else seemed to just look the other way. Even the Med tent wasn't interested in helping. Same thing happened 3 years earlier when I tore my achilles on the playa.

I'm not interested in a Burning Man event that mirrors our BS real life interaction, a place where people are encouraged to just look the other way and ignore the freaks. A place of personal isolation. I'm looking for a community. That community doesn't just jump into existence and simply exist without a whole lot of personal effort.

So I guess I will re-ask and re-phrase my original question:
How can the Burning Man community welcome and introduce everyone to the event?

Or, how does one help others get out of their shell and start having a bit more fun?


First just let me say that this was my first burn and it was an overwhelming experience like I have never had. I've certainly come back a changed person for the better and hope to keep building on my experience to better myself and those around me.

I was one of those people that you describe as being in my shell at times. I smiled and tried to interact with everyone I saw but I was overcome with some deep social anxiety. I had tried interacting with people but most people seemed to be put off by me. I had a hard time coming to terms with this the whole week. What was it? Everyone else seemed to be having a great time? Was I having a great time. Was I having a grea time? Of course I was. But was something missing? Feels like it.

I certainly wasn't dressed all goofy and hippie like everyone else. I wore clothes I normally wear and what was practical for the environment that I was in: boots, pants, t-shirt, jacket. Nothing fancy. Many of the people in my camp have been going for 1-2-5-13 years and they all had cool stuff to wear much like the people I saw around the city. They gave me a few things to wear but the feeling of not fitting it certainly didn't go away.

It was hard feeling like I didn't "fit in" in a place where I am supposed to be allowed to express myself. Just because I don't express my individuality the same way everyone else does.

If you want to people to open up and feel more participatory then you need to make them feel more comfortable. Having someone give you the stink eye because you aren't wearing some flower shirt or having someone tell you to "get a costume" isn't very welcoming. I felt like alot of people were not practicing what they preached out there in terms of inclusion and respect for your fellow human. And this is my personal experience.
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Postby fbcota » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:41 pm

Theres Always One: Thanks for your feedback. I felt the same way my first year, and I have in a way each successive year. With the sense of being overwhelmed, changed for the better and at times a bit outcast. I think that last part has to change. My favorite people out on the Playa are the virgins. They come with a new eyes, wide open to absorb all the things that the veteran burners seem to think is an old hat. Just because you didn't have furry boot covers, a silly mustache, colored braids or a utilikilt doesn't mean you arn't one of the people who don't fit in,.... :P (sorry, poking a bit of fun at myself and my core group of friends)

I will be the first to admit that sometimes I treat BM as "my" social club and if you arn't in "my sub culture" then what are you doing here! Personally I have been trying to work on that. Its hard, but I find my best days are when I include someone who doesn't fit in. I guess its the old punk in me.

I have been trying to bring people into the fold by being a bit crazy and when they don't quite respond I try my best to ask why. Our tag game only had a handful of participants at first, but once we stopped people and asked why they wern't playing it was like we cut through the first wall. Suddenly, we were dodging a reached out arm yelling "no tag backs" and the game was on.

As a virgin do you have any thoughts on how to get people to be a bit more inclusive? Or how could the community reach out to you better (when you were a virgin, now your a grizzled snarly burner :))?
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Postby Artemis » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:49 pm

Yes, TAO, please do let us know if somebody could have done something or said something that would have made you feel more at home.
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Postby Theres Always One » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:10 pm

fbcota wrote:Theres Always One: Thanks for your feedback. I felt the same way my first year, and I have in a way each successive year. With the sense of being overwhelmed, changed for the better and at times a bit outcast. I think that last part has to change. My favorite people out on the Playa are the virgins. They come with a new eyes, wide open to absorb all the things that the veteran burners seem to think is an old hat. Just because you didn't have furry boot covers, a silly mustache, colored braids or a utilikilt doesn't mean you arn't one of the people who don't fit in,.... :P (sorry, poking a bit of fun at myself and my core group of friends)

I will be the first to admit that sometimes I treat BM as "my" social club and if you arn't in "my sub culture" then what are you doing here! Personally I have been trying to work on that. Its hard, but I find my best days are when I include someone who doesn't fit in. I guess its the old punk in me.

I have been trying to bring people into the fold by being a bit crazy and when they don't quite respond I try my best to ask why. Our tag game only had a handful of participants at first, but once we stopped people and asked why they wern't playing it was like we cut through the first wall. Suddenly, we were dodging a reached out arm yelling "no tag backs" and the game was on.

As a virgin do you have any thoughts on how to get people to be a bit more inclusive? Or how could the community reach out to you better (when you were a virgin, now your a grizzled snarly burner :))?


I think that something geared towards birgins specifically might useful. I don't know that there were any resources specifically on the playa.

This is more focused on my campmates than the city as a whole but I think part of the problem was that I was left to figure things out for myself once I got there. All of my campmates who had been there before they had all their friends in DPW and blah blah blah and knew what they wanted to do and where to go and all that. They largely left me and my girlfriend in the dust to figure everything out on our own. We spent most of our time walking around. We didn't really need to interact with people because everything was just so new that its existence alone was just awesome enough. So talking to people was really just an afterthought because we were so overwhelmed with everything on its own.

Maybe like a "tour guide" for birgins or I dunno just a friend to take you around for a night or something. One of the best nights I had was when one of our campmates took us along with him and we went over to the junkyard and his roommate who is DPW took us around on his car and we looked at stuff and hung out. But then again we had great times wandering around on our own as well. So I don't know that I have a specific answer. All I can do is relate my personal experience. :)
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Postby AntiM » Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:14 am

I know some of the larger burn communities try to have Virgin Nights or a party of some sort in order before the event to help birgins get a grip on BRC, the principles, and how not to be a dick. Regionals are great for this.
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Postby Artemis » Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:58 am

Good to know. I will make a point in future years to make sure virgins I know are being included in activities and getting a tour whenever possible.

Thanks for sharing your experience.
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Postby ZaphodBurner » Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:53 pm

Theres Always One wrote:
I certainly wasn't dressed all goofy and hippie like everyone else. I wore clothes I normally wear and what was practical for the environment that I was in: boots, pants, t-shirt, jacket. Nothing fancy. ...

It was hard feeling like I didn't "fit in" in a place where I am supposed to be allowed to express myself. Just because I don't express my individuality the same way everyone else does.

If you want to people to open up and feel more participatory then you need to make them feel more comfortable.


You used the word "allow." Did people prevent you from expressing yourself?

It sounds like you expressed your individuality but you haven't really indicated how you did it. Did anybody know you were "expressing" anything or were you just Burner Virgin #25,000 in street clothes expecting those who apparently dressed for the occasion--"goofy and hippie like"--to avail themselves to you?

Maybe that would help; knowing that you're trying, not just wandering around in clothes you would normally wear. Black Rock City prides itself in being wildly abnormal.

I guess the question here is, do you think people owe you the experience of making you feel more comfortable?
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Postby C.f.M. » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:08 am

They largely left me and my girlfriend in the dust to figure everything out on our own. We spent most of our time walking around. We didn't really need to interact with people because everything was just so new that its existence alone was just awesome enough. So talking to people was really just an afterthought because we were so overwhelmed with everything on its own.

Yeah, that's part of being a virgin. I'd even say that's a quintessential part of being a virgin. There is a guide of what's going on, where the art is. You get it when you come in. There's also playa info, to answer questions about what's where.

Did you ask your friends to show you around, before you got there? Have any sort of discussion at all, about what you, as a virgin, might need from them? At any time say, "Hey! I want to walk around with you! Wait up!"

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Re: Burn Barrels and free range snark

Postby mytripod » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:07 pm

Damn, the older I get, the more I realize how naive I am. They really send undercovers into the various camps like that? That's just sad. It's not like there aren't real things they could be doing, like public safety, slowing down the speed demons kicking up dust when they should be parked. Or pursuing toilet hoverers (lol).
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Re: Burn Barrels and free range snark

Postby tamarakay » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:35 pm

I too felt a reserve this year. I think one way to make things more open is to build more open. It was very hard to distinguish what was an open camp and what was private. There were blocks and blocks and blocks of camps, but no visible outward sign of where you could just wander in.

A warm, welcoming street front would help.
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Re: Burn Barrels and free range snark

Postby TT120 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:13 pm

tamarakay wrote:I too felt a reserve this year. I think one way to make things more open is to build more open. It was very hard to distinguish what was an open camp and what was private. There were blocks and blocks and blocks of camps, but no visible outward sign of where you could just wander in.

A warm, welcoming street front would help.

This.

I was a virgin last year and I found it difficult to tell where I could go and where I shouldn't. Hard to tell what bars are public or private. I chalked it up to my newbieness and moved on. Several times, I would be chasing something shiny and would find myself seemingly in the middle of someones private camp area. Nobody ever said anything to me but it felt like I should get out of there.

On the other hand, we did some raver fishing and EVERYONE we interacted with was having fun with us. We had several people come join us for their chance at "Raver Fishing". A raver even got away with the bait once and made us all howl with laughter.
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Re: Burn Barrels and free range snark

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:03 pm

So, what qualifies as a warm welcome and what as "sorry, come back another time"?
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Re: Burn Barrels and free range snark

Postby GreyCoyote » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:06 pm

The turnover in the LEO ranks are fairly sizeable, but the last couple of years I started remembering faces. i am bad that way.

There was a LEO pair (guy/girl) who came to our camp that I recognized from before. They sat down and chatted pretending to be newbie burners. He was a total doofus, but she was actually rather hot. They started asking if I had anything "fun". I told them I had a bunch of acid. They got REALLY attentive at that and wanted to know how much I had. I told them about 12 kilos. They asked where I had it and I told them in the truck. More googly eyes. They asked if they could see it, and I flipped them the keys. When they opened the truck they asked where it was and I told them to pop the hood and help themselves.

They finally figured out I was fucking with them. My acid was sulfuric, aka a pair of lead/acid batteries.

What really blew their minds was when they realized we had this SAME discussion a year ago. Same place. Same truck. Same batteries.

As a consolation prize I gave them an O'Douls each and wished them a happy burn. I figure I will try it again next year and see if they fall for it. Again. (As a bonus, I thought the Ranger who came by later was going to wet his pants when I told him my story).
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Re: Burn Barrels and free range snark

Postby Savannah » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:06 am

Brilliant! :lol:

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Re: Burn Barrels and free range snark

Postby 9ah » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:25 am

Coyote from TLP?
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Re: Burn Barrels and free range snark

Postby Ugly Dougly » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:59 am

GreyCoyote wrote:He was a total doofus, but she was actually rather hot.

It's always like that.
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Re: Burn Barrels and free range snark

Postby tamarakay » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:26 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:So, what qualifies as a warm welcome and what as "sorry, come back another time"?


Well, your bar for instance. You could tell it was public just walking by. It was obvious that we were welcome (even when you weren't there to say HEY!)
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Re: Burn Barrels and free range snark

Postby GreyCoyote » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:41 pm

9ah wrote:Coyote from TLP?


GC from InfraStruxShure Idiots. Usually around 5:00 and G-ish. We put on a chill. Comfy domes with AC, running water and soul food. Utterly drug free (but excellent booze). Mostly an older crowd with zero tolerance for drama or attitudes. No theme really except BYOB - Bring your own band-aids. We build stuff. And we adopt those who need adopting.
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Re: Burn Barrels and free range snark

Postby FIGJAM » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:58 pm

On the spoke, or on G? 8)
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