Ugliest Temple Ever?

Postby Kinetik V » Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:59 pm

Hmmm...I wonder if anyone's had the idea to build mini-temples elsewhere besides the deep playa? Every city has multiple churches...why not BRC? I could see having two satellite temples that would allow for diverse design ideas....while still building one main temple....

(I'm just doing freethinking and typing...sometimes it's a bad combo, sometimes not)
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Postby Here and there » Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:23 pm

Kinetic V wrote:I could see having two satellite temples that would allow for diverse design ideas....while still building one main temple....


Why not have shrines at the various camps? To take that idea, non-sarcastically, to its next step? I've always wondered why the theme camps and the art weren't more connected, physically, than they are. How many cities does one know of in which art is never found in a residential zone?
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Postby big baby jesus » Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:59 pm

My post constitutes a "meltdown" and "temper tantrum"???

"...back down out of mortal fear"?? Fear of what?

You need a fucking life.
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Postby SoSS » Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:22 pm

[quote="Here and there"][quote="SoSS"]I think that judging it by its aesthetic value, is the very behavior we all run to Burning Man to avoid.[/quote]

Really? Because being told what to think and say is one of the behaviors I run to Burning Man to avoid.[/quote]

Nice. Its kind of like you are standing ready with a baseball bat, ready to knock out anything anyone has to say as soon as it comes.
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Temple, and temple burn thoughts...

Postby Antioquia » Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:25 pm

this coming from someone who had no previous knowledge of what the temple would look like before walking up to it and using it to write down some shit I needed to let go of...

i thought the temple was unreal... yes, a daring design in that it didn't seem to architecturally reference any 'traditional' temple designs. But what about the cave, the valley, the canyon as places for spiritual worship and reflection over thousands upon thousands of years? This year's temple referenced these in its form, and in plan form (the structure's footprint on the playa) the temple could be seen as spirits dancing next to each other, hands holding eachother in support, the flow of time/change...
My only design comment is that perhaps the Temple could have been oriented to the sunrise in some way that would illuminate some part of the structure and add some more depth or lightness to some part of it. If it did this and I missed it, please let me know!

I also thought that the way the Temple was designed to burn and to appear to carry away our fears, hopes, wishes, wants, pains, shouts, pains, joys and cheers with those magical dust tornadoes was brilliant, and I'm sure completely intentional. The Temple Burn, and being silent with thousands of people as we meditated on the altar we'd built together with photos, sharpies and each of our individual experiences and emotions... was sublime, and something I'll never forget. The way it glowed from within to begin, and gradually overtook the structure, and the Ancestors (dust devils) escaping with all our humanity from within the Temple... aw shit. Amazing.

to comment on some of the back-and-forth in this thread...
I agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I also feel that we need to learn as a human society to express these opinions in ways that don't obstruct or negate or build our own assumptions into the opinions of others... we need to learn to express ourselves while maintaining our respect and support of others as unique individuals. This is when the real interesting intersections and clashes of our artistic and aesthetic values can become fruitful.

I feel that the Temple Burn is a necessary part of the BM experience -- not to say that everyone needs to attend it. I just mean that to have a moment of silence & stillness together after a week of constant movement, music, and marvellous madness, is beautiful. It's a moment of focus, of reflection... a great reminder to be still and to Listen once in a while. And without it I wouldn't have felt the orgasm of inspiration that I felt this year as I watched, in the eerie dust glow following the Burn, all these illuminated individuals spreading out from the flame of the Temple and back to their camps, and eventually back to their homes in the Default World where they *hopefully* would be able to put some of the elements of community-mindedness, sexual consent, respect for Planet Earth and other Burning Man qualities to use.

Blessings to everyone for contributing to a lively conversation
and thanks for another unreal burn :-)

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Postby MyPlayaUserName » Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:42 pm

Maybe I'm using the wrong word here, but for me,t he temple felt almost cliche this year.
My first thoughts when walking up to it were "It looks like the waffle from 2006". I wasn't at BRC that year, but have seen photos. When I saw my friend who HAD been that year, and asked for her thoughts on the temple, her response was "it looks like the waffle". She had been in 2006.
So the temple looked like something that had already been seen by many. And was less impressive than the waffle, structurally.

Also, are people really calling others shallow for judging a piece of art aesthetically? I mean, you can't exactly taste art. You couldn't
[i]hear[/i] the temple. It was something to be seen and felt. Being pleasing to the eye does seem to be an important ingredient to its existence.

I have trouble judging in the long wrong, because it is all a matter of perspective, and I am aware that my perspective was off on this journey. My strangest burn by far. So I have trouble seeing outside of myself and knowing if things are off, or if I'm just seeing them that way.

Everything seemed off to me. The impenetrable temple. The very short man-burn. The constant ID checks! The week felt more like one of my burning man dreams than it did an actual burning man. Random elements of BRC thrown together but the cohesiveness I usually feel I was numb to.
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Postby Here and there » Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:14 pm

big baby jesus wrote:My post constitutes a "meltdown" and "temper tantrum"???


Yes, and if you had even the slightest shred of honesty, you'd admit it. Which you don't, of course. Consider the way in which you respond to this passage in one of my previous posts

Here and there wrote:Oh, no, you made yourself plenty clear. You threw a temper tantrum, you didn't get the response you wanted - which obviously was for all to back down out of the mortal fear that somebody might think that we weren't being sensitive enough to your concerns - and now that this hasn't worked, you want us to forget what we just saw, seeing what you're telling us to see, instead of what's out there in clear view, for all to see.


with this quotation out of context

big baby jesus wrote:"...back down out of mortal fear"?? Fear of what?


acting as if I hadn't already answered the question you then ask, as you put on this wonderful little show for us.

big baby jesus wrote:You need a fucking life.


Right back at you.
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Postby Here and there » Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:21 pm

SoSS wrote:
Here and there wrote:
SoSS wrote:I think that judging it by its aesthetic value, is the very behavior we all run to Burning Man to avoid.


Really? Because being told what to think and say is one of the behaviors I run to Burning Man to avoid.


Nice. Its kind of like you are standing ready with a baseball bat, ready to knock out anything anyone has to say as soon as it comes.



Oh, poor, persecuted you. Somebody gave you backtalk, instead of giving your views instant validation, as is your birthright. Whatever is the world coming to, and I do mean whatever.

By the way, you might want to uncheck the boxes to the right of "options", if you want to use quotation or other BBCode in your posts. Unless you like having unrendered code appearing in your posts.




MyPlayaUserName wrote:Also, are people really calling others shallow for judging a piece of art aesthetically?


Yes, they are. Incredible, isn't it?
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Postby big baby jesus » Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:45 pm

H&T: Good God, you're a drama queen.

You act like this stuff is life and death; running around and putting everyone in their place. Insults, threats challenges. You need to find something other than these forums to live for.

Anyhow, I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent so you're on your own princess.
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Postby Bob » Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:51 pm

Here and there wrote:Why not have shrines at the various camps?


They're called "burn barrels" and "burn platforms". Might save the org a few hundred thou each if you people used those instead of a huge sacred cow of a temple that takes weeks of heavy equipment work and hand labor to mobilize and clean up, plus security, materials, windblown moop & whatnot.

I must say the burn platforms cut from steel tanks looked fabulous this year. Almost spiritual. Perfect for weddings, funerals, BBQs, maybe even a bris.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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Postby swampdog » Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:00 pm

I loved the temple. To me the shape simultaneously evoked the canyons element with fire, waves, and the chambers of the heart. And it burned beautifully. It was a bigger canvas for peoples' words and so the words were more spread out and perhaps the impact of sharing other lives was perhaps a bit less than usual. But I loved it.

With next year's theme, I suspect there may be many rites of passage observed with fire. Can't wait.
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Postby Captain Goddammit » Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:24 pm

You don't know what you're talking about. The temple looked pretty cool.
Do you remember the ORIGINAL temple, from '00 or '01... it was just a square box made from that leftover puzzle-piece plywood.
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Postby Miles » Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:17 pm

[quote="Kinetic V"]
Maybe it's time for a temple that is not designer created, but community created.
[/quote]

I really love this idea! but instead of a vote imagine this

place some good lumber, tools and fasteners in the deep playa and let it evolve naturally from the people- People could bring more lumber, or any object really to expand it further.

...but on second thought it would be pretty shoddy construction...someone would probably get hurt
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Postby Here and there » Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:30 pm

big baby jesus wrote:H&T: Good God, you're a drama queen.

You act like this stuff is life and death;


Look who's talking.

big baby jesus wrote:running around and putting everyone in their place


You mean, like you've been trying to do throughout this discussion, telling people what they may or may not criticise.

big baby jesus wrote:Insults,


ie. calling you on your obnoxious behavior

big baby jesus wrote:threats challenges.


One will note that the last two have been altogether absent in my posts. That's not a point of view, that's undebatable reality, bringing us back to your lack of honesty.

big baby jesus wrote:You need to find something other than these forums to live for.


Which no doubt explains why I needed well over a year to reach my 100th post on this forum, even if one counts one liner replies. When was it in 2008 I joined, again? I can't remember.

big baby jesus wrote:Anyhow, I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent


as I've been doing throughout

big baby jesus wrote:so you're on your own princess.


Using fighting words, from behind the safety of a computer screen. It takes a real man to do that.

*Plonk*
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Postby Here and there » Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:40 pm

And I'm out of here (the thread, not ePlaya). I like the multiple temple idea, and think that could be an interesting subject to have a discussion about, but this discussion has passed a point of no return. Once a discussion hits a certain level of stupidity, it never comes back.

On this one, we're there.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:52 pm

Kinetic V wrote:Hmmm...I wonder if anyone's had the idea to build mini-temples elsewhere besides the deep playa? Every city has multiple churches...why not BRC? I could see having two satellite temples that would allow for diverse design ideas....while still building one main temple....

(I'm just doing freethinking and typing...sometimes it's a bad combo, sometimes not)

I"m pretty sure that was chatted about on tribe pre-2009 or 2008.
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Postby Elorrum » Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:24 pm

I liked the temple, and I appreciated the intent of the builders to have a more organic sort of environment as opposed to an ornate building. something a little different. I was looking forward to a quiet time of day to experience it. I went out early Saturday morning to write my notes to lost loved ones and was bothered by the end of rave evening activities... large music vehicle blaring and folks chatting each other up like they were in a bar. My preference is that if it is called a temple, that it be respected as a temple, and not utilized as a party destination. I tried to make my prayers of sorts and wrote a brief note, but I was distracted and slightly peeved. I wondered how so many people can get on the same page about the purpose of structures and whether it is just not possible. I finished my early morning trek at Roots Society mooping and got several wonderful hugs and thank yous which balanced the whole thing out.
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Postby Captain Goddammit » Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:06 pm

Here and there wrote:
big baby jesus wrote:something Here and there didn't like

followed by,
-bickery point-by-point retort-


and on and on and on

Oh man, no one wants to read all that. Go to your room.
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Postby yizzah » Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:07 pm

I didn't think it looked so great by the end of the week. It looked a bit like an abandoned building with all the spray-painted messages. It definitely looked trashy by Sunday. But it burned brilliantly.
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Postby Kinetik V » Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:12 pm

Fishy, Zynga has sucked all the life out of Tribe...it seems to be on advanced life support but it's nothing like what it used to be.

Yizzah's right...the temple burn was a great burn to watch.
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Postby Mantaray » Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:43 pm

I found it an interesting design that engulfed you rather than elevating you. The composer Gustaf Mahler is famous for saying "interesting is easy, beautiful is difficult." I'd put the 2010 temple in the realm of the "interesting." It wasn't the awe inspiring structure that we're used to seeing in that location -- it was more a conceptual piece certainly reminiscent of the Belgian Waffle (as was last year's Man base). However the fire was completely amazing with subtle color shifts and the piece was certainly designed to burn well. I'm glad that artists have been exploring different expressions of what a "temple" could be.
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Postby Mantaray » Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:53 pm

I found it an interesting design that engulfed you rather than elevating you. The composer Gustaf Mahler is famous for saying "interesting is easy, beautiful is difficult." I'd put the 2010 temple in the realm of the "interesting." It wasn't the awe inspiring structure that we're used to seeing in that location -- it was more a conceptual piece certainly reminiscent of the Belgian Waffle (as was last year's Man base). However the fire was completely amazing with subtle color shifts and the piece was certainly designed to burn well. I'm glad that artists have been exploring different expressions of what a "temple" could be.
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Postby Hoolie » Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:59 pm

I didn't care for it, especially compared to some of the temples from past years, which I thought were phenomenal. Still, it was way more than anything I've ever done out there, so major props to the temple builders.
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Postby thirt33n » Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:14 am

Here and there wrote:And I'm out of here (the thread, not ePlaya). I like the multiple temple idea, and think that could be an interesting subject to have a discussion about, but this discussion has passed a point of no return. Once a discussion hits a certain level of stupidity, it never comes back.

On this one, we're there.



....and BOY, did you ever help us get there.
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Postby geekster » Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:29 am

Personally I find the presumed need for a public religious structure absolutely repellent, not to mention unAmerican


I agree. While I have no problem with the city having a (or even several) temples of various sorts, I see no need or even benefit from having a temple so completely embraced by the borg as "the" temple.

Maybe it is time for The Temple of Doom.

Or maybe The Temple of Sarcasm which would be a zen garden with a big rock in the center surrounded by cans of spray paint where people could tag it up and then on Sunday night, a candle gets lit and we watch it burn and then the rock goes on eBay after to reimburse the borg for the grant.

The whole thing is starting to smell like what I go out there to get a break from. We keep dragging more and more shit out there to make it more and more like back here.
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Postby bluesbob » Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:23 am

I go out on the playa and you tell me "That's the Temple", I go "OK"...because I go with no preconceived conceptions of what a temple looks like.

Lets get rid of the art cars and mutant vehicles, because, after all, none of them really look like cars or other vehicles.
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Postby soupman » Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:00 am

MyPlayaUserName wrote:My first thoughts when walking up to it were "It looks like the waffle from 2006".


Y'know that's exactly what I thought when I first walked up to it... in fact it took me a few minutes to realize that it was, indeed, THE temple. But that didn't change the overwhelming feeling of sorrow that came over me upon reading the inscriptions, seeing the people leaned over, literally depending on the structure to hold them up as they mourned for loved ones.

I feel the temple has NOTHING to do with religion and the word itself should only be used in the loosest of terms, in my opinion. For me it is a place of reflection, a place to say goodbye and a place with which to find peace, resolve and closure. Aesthetically? Yeah, not the prettiest temple ever (again, imho), but it served its intended purpose and that's all that matters in the end to me.
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Postby C.f.M. » Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:11 am

Esp. after all the kerfluffle about the monies and Paypal, we were all, "Seriously? Hundreds of thousands for a pile of lumber and some nails?"

I liked the idea, but the manifestation was sorely lacking - esp. compared to last year's intricate detail(s).

However, it did burn beautifully.
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Postby Hillary » Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:07 am

I think the temple looked pretty cool, but I was more impressed by the way the design served as a wind breaker. If people wanted a place to go to seek peace and tranquility, it was definitely the best temple to do that. Every time I was in there I felt protected from the elements. Plus there were little fire pits to provide warmth at night!
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Postby marcgorcey » Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:18 am

I'm wondering how many of those on this thread actually walked into the temple at night versus walked by it, or even just saw it at a distance in the daytime.

At night, it was like walking through a fire frozen in time - very quiet and conducive to contemplation too.

The other temples probably looked better in the daylight, but this temple knocked me flat with its evocation of fire at night...

loved, loved, loved it
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