Regular Freezer

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Regular Freezer

Postby Sunkix4 » Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:45 am

I wasn't lucky enough to get a chest freezer :( but I did get a regular freezer! It's about 5 ft tall, so not too big.

I've never taken anything like this out to the playa before. Any tips for keeping this thing going?? What about on my trek out to the playa? Is dry ice my only option?!?

:)
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Postby Token » Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:57 am

They work fine. Keep in shade.

They use more power than chest freezers.

If you have a short 1 day trip, just load it up with frozen stuff and wrap in blankets.

If your trip is longer, dry ice is a good option. Figure 10# per day untill you plug into power.
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Postby jkisha » Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:56 am

Token wrote:They work fine. Keep in shade.

They use more power than chest freezers.

If you have a short 1 day trip, just load it up with frozen stuff and wrap in blankets.

If your trip is longer, dry ice is a good option. Figure 10# per day untill you plug into power.


We use dry ice on the playa quite a bit (we serve root beer floats, so we have lots of ice cream to keep frozen). However, this year we are buying a chest freezer to help with this effort.

I was just wondering if the dry ice would make the walls of the freezer so cold that they could possibly crack. In your experience, is this possible? I'd hate to ruin the freezer on it's virgin deployment to the playa.

Thanks,

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Postby Sunkix4 » Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:35 am

Thanks for the tip! We just have a short day trip, but I'll probably still use some dry ice just to be safe.

We're doing rootbeer floats too!!! Where are you guys placed?!?
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Postby Elliot » Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:41 am

:D
What about running the freezer -- or refrigerator -- while on the road? Any reason why a Honda EU3000 can not run while rolling down the road on a trailer?

Looks to me like an inverter powered by the truck alternator could do it also.

I'm a bit worried about getting foods carbonated by Dry Ice. Carbonated milk is reported to be a bit weird.
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Postby ygmir » Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:55 am

Elliot wrote::D
What about running the freezer -- or refrigerator -- while on the road? Any reason why a Honda EU3000 can not run while rolling down the road on a trailer?

Looks to me like an inverter powered by the truck alternator could do it also.

I'm a bit worried about getting foods carbonated by Dry Ice. Carbonated milk is reported to be a bit weird.


how could something get carbonated in a sealed container?
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Postby jkisha » Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:58 am

carbonation has never been a problem for us, and we use dry ice extensively in coolers--for ice cream and for all of our food for the second part of the week. (I don't even know what carbonation is--except for bubbles in beer, wine and water.)

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Postby Token » Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:00 pm

Lots of RV trailer guys have a Honda running in the truck bed to keep the AC going in the trailer. Nothing wrong with that.

If you put dry ice in a chest freezer it will go into an infinite amplification cycle, crack the freezer, vehicle and road you are driving down. The universe and time itself will stop untill the dry ice us used up.

Wear gloves when handling the dry ice.
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Postby Token » Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:05 pm

The whole carbonation from dry ice is a myth, big ol' Playa Chicken.

Any brewer will tell you, gotta have at least 20PSI of CO2 to carbonate anything.

If you cooler is that good at holding pressure, you are at least a minor deity.
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Postby Elliot » Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:14 pm

I think I read on the "Sticky" Dry Ice thread, way back, that some folks have had foods and even milk penetrated by the CO2 molecules from Dry Ice. Everything is a matter of molecule size -- oxygen passes thru membranes in our body that liquids do not. So I'm thinking it is conceivable that CO2 could pass thru a milk container. But I may remember wrong.

Since JK has not had any trouble with it, it should be OK. I worry too much. :lol:

And.... 20 PSI -- ain't gonna happen, for sure.

And.... Honda running in truck bed; check.
:D

Now... I DO want to experiment with the Infinite Amplification Cycle. Sounds like my kind'a ride.
:wink:
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Postby jkisha » Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:23 pm

Token wrote:Lots of RV trailer guys have a Honda running in the truck bed to keep the AC going in the trailer. Nothing wrong with that.

If you put dry ice in a chest freezer it will go into an infinite amplification cycle, crack the freezer, vehicle and road you are driving down. The universe and time itself will stop untill the dry ice us used up.

Wear gloves when handling the dry ice.


Oh my, sounds dangerous. Nothing to worry about then, I guess. ;)

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Postby Elliot » Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:31 pm

:D
My Infinite Amplification Cycle from 2007:

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Not entirely safe... is accurate.
:lol:
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Postby Token » Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:43 pm

If all you dry ice geeks want to do an experiment:

Put a chunk of dry ice in a plastic cup. Add water.

After the ice boils and subimates and makes the pretty fog dance, tell me if you end up with club soda.

It ain't happening.

If you want to learn how to carbonate, come find me and my 800PSI CO2 tank and kegs and I show you. Bring a cup.
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Postby oneeyeddick » Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:53 pm

Ballcuzzi is my favorite way to add carbonation to a drink.
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Postby Just_Joe » Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:54 pm

Token wrote:If you put dry ice in a chest freezer it will go into an infinite amplification cycle, crack the freezer, vehicle and road you are driving down. The universe and time itself will stop untill the dry ice us used up.

Kinda like Ice Nine
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Postby Captain Goddammit » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:02 am

Several years I brought an electric-only fridge/freezer and simply ran a Honda genny in the trailer while on the road.

I'm assuming that if you're bringing a freezer and a generator to run it (??) that you have a truck and/or trailer and can simply do the same?
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Postby Captain Goddammit » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:02 am

Several years I brought an electric-only fridge/freezer and simply ran a Honda genny in the trailer while on the road.

I'm assuming that if you're bringing a freezer and a generator to run it (??) that you have a truck and/or trailer and can simply do the same?
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Postby jkisha » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:56 am

Captain Goddammit wrote:Several years I brought an electric-only fridge/freezer and simply ran a Honda genny in the trailer while on the road.

I'm assuming that if you're bringing a freezer and a generator to run it (??) that you have a truck and/or trailer and can simply do the same?


Yes, we have a generator. It's interesting, that I never would have even thought about or considered running the generator in a moving vehicle. Don't ask me why, it just never crossed my mind as something that could or even should be done. I guess it sounded 'not safe' to me.

Now that I am thinking about it, I don't really know what would be more dangerous about carrying a running generator while driving than a generator that is not running.

We don't have a trailer--we're coming up in a 20' box truck. I would assume there are some implications about fumes running a generator in a closed truck. So now I'm thinking of options for ventilation--like maybe some type of hose that would run from the exhaust to outside the truck somehow???

We went to HD last night and actually had the opportunity to look closely at a chest freezer. The one we got is metal inside and the instructions say it will keep food frozen for 24 hours without power. So that sort of helps ease two of my concerns.

I am more confident that the metal lining won't be effected by dry ice, and 24 hours is more than enough time to get the ice cream to the playa. So I thinking that starting with everything frozen then adding some dry ice will be an adequate solution, if not over-kill.

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Postby Elliot » Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:28 am

:D
And as for me, my freezer, refrigerator, and generator will all be bolted/strapped to an open trailer.

Yep, going full hog with camp kitchen. Both fridge and freezer were free, so why not.
:D
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Postby jkisha » Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:39 am

Elliot wrote::D
And as for me, my freezer, refrigerator, and generator will all be bolted/strapped to an open trailer.

Yep, going full hog with camp kitchen. Both fridge and freezer were free, so why not.
:D


What's the wattage on your generator?

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Postby Elliot » Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:14 am

:D
It is a Honda EU3000. Continuous max output is something like 2800 Watts. Fridge draws 500 and freezer 300.

We discussed start power versus run power somewhere around here a while ago, and concluded that... uh... ...that it would be OK. I think.
:D
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Postby jkisha » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:02 am

You should be OK. One thing I found out the hard way is that your generator looses 3.5% power per 1000 feet of altitude plus 1% for each 10 degrees above 60. (though I've read above 80 in some sources).

The first year we brought an air conditioner for our Yurt and a smaller generator we thought should be more than adequate--we tested it in LA and everything worked just fine. When we got to the playa we were dismayed to find out there just wasn't enough power to keep the AC running. :( We didn't know about the altitude/temperature thing.

Here's an interesting link on calculating the power requirements. (PDF) http://www.multiquip.com/multiquip/pdfs ... k-0808.pdf

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Postby Elliot » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:12 am

:D
Right. A couple of years ago I tried powering a friend's RV A/C with my EU3000. The numbers looked OK, but the genny went straight into overload and shut down.

Thanks, I'll see what I can learn from that link.
:D
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Postby ygmir » Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:18 pm

it's usually a factor of 2 for start load, compared to running load.
take 10% off your max output, for altitude and heat.
Those calcs. should get you within the safe zone.
and, making sure two things don't try to start at the same time, will help.
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Postby Elliot » Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:47 pm

:D
Let's see.... "...factor of 2..." means "double"? (I flunked math!)

In the other thread, an argument was made that the Amps listed on the unit (2.8 A on my freezer, 4.8 A on my fridge) was the start draw. But I don't remember confirming that. If that's the run draw, then the "worst case scenario" of both starting at once is 1.600 Watts for a couple of seconds.

EU3000 = 2.800 W minus 280 W = 2.520 W. Good to go with room to spare!
:D
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Postby Token » Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:55 pm

The sticker always lists maximum power draw per UL requirements. This is the worst case startup power.

Its the UL rules.
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Postby Sunkix4 » Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:56 pm

So it really is safe to run the generator in the back of the trailer while driving?? I mean... I know it should be safe, but for some reason I picture myself looking in my rearview mirror and seeing a crazy trailer explosion!
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Postby ygmir » Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:06 pm

Token wrote:The sticker always lists maximum power draw per UL requirements. This is the worst case startup power.

Its the UL rules.


I wondered about that.........I had thought, the sticker was max running draw, not momentary peak start power.
but, that makes sense.

Sunkix4:
"safe" is always relative.
If it's not secured, it could tip.
and, if running, secured or no, if fuel spills, it may ignite.
exhaust buildup is a concern, as are fuel fumes, and exhaust heat/spontaneous combustion from same.

Just some thoughts.
You gotta weigh the reasons for running the genny while driving, vs possible issues.

just some thoughts.

not sure of the actual legality.
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Postby Elliot » Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:36 pm

Token wrote:The sticker always lists maximum power draw per UL requirements. This is the worst case startup power.

Its the UL rules.


You probably told us this in the other thread. I lose track of stuff. Thanks!
:D
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Postby CapSmashy » Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:50 pm

We'll be running a little dorm sized freezer on the bus this year. Per the fact tag, max draw is 1.5 amps.
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