Bar hopping at Burning Man

What do you eat and drink on the playa? Share ideas, recipes and advice here.

Postby junglesmacks » Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:29 am

This Woman wrote:
That said, it will be the first year I've carried an ID. The times they are a changin'.


Just no one freak out until we start getting our own personalized UPC code with out tickets, then our foreheads stamped upon arrival. They could just scan us into each of the events, then print out a sweet movement report at the end.
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Postby junglesmacks » Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:30 am

This Woman wrote:
That said, it will be the first year I've carried an ID. The times they are a changin'.


Just no one freak out until we start getting our own personalized UPC code with our tickets, then our foreheads stamped upon arrival. They could just scan us into each of the events, then print out a sweet movement report at the end.
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Postby Chessna » Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:57 am

pbmaniac2000 wrote:Well since we are on the subject of checking ids at bars, i figured I would chime something in.

Do NOT walk around on the playa with your actual ID. Leave it in your car! Every year I go to a local print shop and have them photo copy my id. They do a hi-def photo copy then laminate it for $5. You can also just copy it on any copy machine and just carry the copy with you.

If you lose your id on the playa and have to take a plane back home, you are in big trouble. If you get stopped for any reason on the drive back, it will cause you big headaches too. Maybe it’s just me being paranoid, but I’ve lost my id on trips before and it really makes life miserable.


I actually just went out and got a state ID to go with my driver’s license. I'm leaving the license in my car and carrying around the state ID. I'm 25, but have a tendency to look younger than that and I'd be afraid that someone wouldn't believe my photocopied ID.

My boyfriend is 26 and has a tendency to look 36, but he's getting a state ID, too... just to be safe.

I know a lot of bars in the real world won't accept IDs with a whole punched in them, but I doubt that would be the case on the playa. I guess it just depends on how young you look and how much of a stickler the camp is (and I wouldn't blame them... who wants a fine on the playa?).
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Postby kman » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:07 pm

junglesmacks wrote:
TomServo wrote:
pbmaniac2000 wrote:Well since we are on the subject of checking ids at bars, i figured I would chime something in.

Do NOT walk around on the playa with your actual ID. Leave it in your car! Every year I go to a local print shop and have them photo copy my id. They do a hi-def photo copy then laminate it for $5. You can also just copy it on any copy machine and just carry the copy with you.

If you loose your id on the playa and have to take a plane back home, you are in big trouble. If you get stopped for any reason on the drive back, it will cause you big headaches too. Maybe its just me being paranoid, but i've lost my id on trips before and it really makes life miserable.


And on a lanyard? I like the idea.


That is a super sweet idea. I was actually going to to ahead and get a duplicate made at the DMV and then leave the extra at the house that I'm flying in and out from. I'd say you could even expand on this idea and put your camp name/address on there just in case of emergency..

I hope accepting a photocopied ID would suffice from a LEO standpoint... it sure wouldn't in the real world.
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Postby This Woman » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:13 pm

I dont think due diligence is defined, but if I get fined as a bartender after accepting a (clear) photocopied ID then I will fight it, and same goes for an ID with a hole, like mine.

It's true they are not valid forms of ID that money collecting bars should not accept, but seems a reasonable diligence for the circumstances. At any rate, I am willing to take my chances.
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Postby Eric » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:36 pm

personally, when I bartend I won't accept a photocopied ID. Period.

I work in clubs in the real world, I know what the ID rules are, and if LEO's are setting up a sting you can bet they just took notes on that one. It would be incredibly simple to take a photocopied ID, scan it, photoshop it & be all set. I'm not going to risk a fine for me & my bar because someone didn't come up with a valid ID.

If you look under 25, make sure you can prove you're older than 21. Simple as that. I'm in my late 40's and I carry an ID on playa, I don't have sympathy for people who won't.

BRC is still the real world, as much as people want to play-act that it isn't. It's just the real world with a lot better "community values" than most places- but that doesn't mean the laws of Nevada magically stop at the Gate.
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Postby This Woman » Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:57 pm

I’ve never received a photocopy ID, but given it seems to be a common plan, I will probably accept them. I think there is a valid reason to not carry your ID/Driver’s license out and about on the playa. I do have sympathy for them, which is pretty typical to my nature.

I will not break the law, as I will not knowingly furnish alcoholic beverage to any person under 21 years of age. So if LE wants to track me down because it’s easier than actually doing their job of finding bars that knowingly break the law, then they are corrupt. I will fight it, and I may lose, but I won’t be in the wrong.

Burning Man is not the real world. In the real world, children can be near alcohol that is given away. In the real world LE does not show up at parties checking IDs and fining underage drinkers unless they receive a noise or other complaint, and most times not even then. Except those laws regarding attire, Burning Man is held to a higher standard than in the real world.

The safest standard of care then, is that of a professional retail bar, which makes sense given their similarities. But there are all sorts of dissimilarities too. Like the fact that bars are also camps and many of those camps have children (mine did before they were grown) and there are people that cannot afford to lose their valid IDs. There are ID’s from other states and other countries – how does one assess their validity?

Professional bartenders here are very definitive in their advise to only accept valid ID and do not rely on the fact that it’s illegal to say you’re old enough to drink alcohol when you’re not. Please explain why you are so definitive that it is the law when all I have found on the subject is that I cannot knowingly furnish…nothing about how I came to the knowingly part.

Eric, you say you know what the ID rules are…where in the law can a layperson find the ID rules? I’m asking because most bars in BRC don’t have professional bartenders and yet are held to the same standard of care. If it is written law that my only course for verifying age is to check and verify the validity of their ID, then I should be able to find the laws like those I posted earlier…right? At any rate, if they exist, I’d like to find the pertinent laws and post them. To date, I have been unsuccessful in that effort.
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Postby pbmaniac2000 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:16 pm

[/quote]
I hope accepting a photocopied ID would suffice from a LEO standpoint... it sure wouldn't in the real world.[/quote]

My thought is that if I do have an interaction with any sort of LEO and he wants to see my real id, then he can follow me back to camp. If thats too much trouble for him, than it must not be that big of deal.
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Postby Eric » Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:38 pm

This Woman wrote:Eric, you say you know what the ID rules are…where in the law can a layperson find the ID rules?


Good question. I've never seen them in writing, I've been informed by bar owners what I'm required to look for on ID's: holograms, signs of tampering, careful check of the photo & the face, understanding where to look on thats state ID for the relevant info etc...

I wouldn't be that anal in BRC- I would check anyone remotely looking underage for an ID, and if they didn't have a legit ID I wouldn't serve them. Taking a photocopied ID (which wouldn't be valid in any jurisdiction) is just asking for trouble. If they look too young they should have an ID or they won't get served. Not difficult.

pbm- careful what you ask for. If the LEO's go back to your camp & see anything they think is "suspicious" they can investigate- your stuff, your campmates stuff, your neighbors stuff..... That's one reason I have my ID on me. I know I'm not doing anything wrong, but I don't know about that guy in the tent two doors down.
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Postby TomServo » Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:03 pm

Eric wrote:
This Woman wrote:Eric, you say you know what the ID rules are…where in the law can a layperson find the ID rules?


Good question. I've never seen them in writing, I've been informed by bar owners what I'm required to look for on ID's: holograms, signs of tampering, careful check of the photo & the face, understanding where to look on thats state ID for the relevant info etc...

I wouldn't be that anal in BRC- I would check anyone remotely looking underage for an ID, and if they didn't have a legit ID I wouldn't serve them. Taking a photocopied ID (which wouldn't be valid in any jurisdiction) is just asking for trouble. If they look too young they should have an ID or they won't get served. Not difficult.

pbm- careful what you ask for. If the LEO's go back to your camp & see anything they think is "suspicious" they can investigate- your stuff, your campmates stuff, your neighbors stuff..... That's one reason I have my ID on me. I know I'm not doing anything wrong, but I don't know about that guy in the tent two doors down.


Undercover LEOs are all over anyways, at least the sight of a squad car would be fair warning.

Not sure if a hole punched in a state ID makes it invalid, like a license, but they do make ID sleeves that can be attached to a lanyard.
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Postby This Woman » Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:21 pm

I'm pretty sure it's officially invalid. They used to just take the old ones away (NV), but that time, they gave me my new one, punched a hole in the old and gave it back too.
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Postby MissNev » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:09 pm

Anyone who sells alcohol in Washoe County, NV (also in Clark County) must attend an Alcohol Awareness class and carry a state issued id stating that you've completed the class. In this class, we learn, among other things, the various laws surrounding serving of alcohol, including how to spot fake ids. We only learn about Nevada ids though. We were told that with other states, if we are in doubt about the authenticity of the id, we are within our right to ask for a 2nd (or even third or fourth) form of id. Ultimately, it is up to the server's discretion. If they think the id is fake, they do not have to serve the customer. Same with levels of intoxication. If the server thinks you are too intoxicated, they don't have to serve you.

Woman, pertinant law is NRS 369 I believe.
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Postby TomServo » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:21 pm

MissNev wrote:Anyone who sells alcohol in Washoe County, NV (also in Clark County) must attend an Alcohol Awareness class and carry a state issued id stating that you've completed the class. In this class, we learn, among other things, the various laws surrounding serving of alcohol, including how to spot fake ids. We only learn about Nevada ids though. We were told that with other states, if we are in doubt about the authenticity of the id, we are within our right to ask for a 2nd (or even third or fourth) form of id. Ultimately, it is up to the server's discretion. If they think the id is fake, they do not have to serve the customer. Same with levels of intoxication. If the server thinks you are too intoxicated, they don't have to serve you.

Woman, pertinant law is NRS 369 I believe.


Were not selling though. Those rules still apply?
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Postby This Woman » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:33 pm

Thanks MissNev. Cursory view shows lots of info to go through and I will try and post a breakdown tonight or tomorrow. It looks initially like its selling of alcohol, but I'll confirm.
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Postby MissNev » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:42 pm

The laws pertain to the supply/consumption of alcohol. I think the intent is to be construed as the exchange of alcohol. I suppose an argument can be made about camps being personal residences, but if you are giving alcohol to the public, it ceases to be personal residence. I'd say it would be safe to err on the side of caution. If I have a question about someone's age, I'll ask for id. If the id is not blatantly fake (Mr. McLovin), I'll accept it.
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Postby TomServo » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:06 am

Having had my own experiences with the "system,"I don't relish the thought of getting arrested for running a bar. However, it seems pretty clear that Law Enforcement has been pretty damned flexible, with the Burning Man community. And, as far as I know, sanitary conditions and serving minors are their main concern. As they should be!
I'm tempted to call the Washoe County Sherriffs Dept. For details.....but then again, BM is on Federal land... hmmmm!
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Postby This Woman » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:09 am

That's one of the problems, as I see it. Everybody has their hand in the money jar. There's Washoe Co, Pershing Co, BLM and who knows who else, that have LE representation.
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Postby TomServo » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:29 am

The only time I've seen police at a bar, was when they were getting a drink.....and gifting Washoe Co. Sherrifs ballpoint pens.

Maybe we should take a closer look at the agency that hates us most!
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Postby This Woman » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:32 am

I never saw any ballpoints, but shiny gold sheriff badge stickers were always fun.
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Postby TomServo » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:36 am

Oh! You missed out! I guess a good rule of thumb, is to put more alcohol in LEOs drinks.
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Postby Boijoy » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:37 am

[quote="TomServo"]The only time I've seen police at a bar, was when they were getting a drink.....and gifting Washoe Co. Sherrifs ballpoint pens.

Maybe we should take a closer look at the agency that hates us most![/quote

BMORG? :lol:
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Postby TomServo » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:42 am

Boijoy wrote:
TomServo wrote:The only time I've seen police at a bar, was when they were getting a drink.....and gifting Washoe Co. Sherrifs ballpoint pens.

Maybe we should take a closer look at the agency that hates us most![/quote

BMORG? :lol:


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Postby geospyder » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:57 am

TomServo - which bar are you tending? You gave me an idea for some gifting.
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Postby TomServo » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:03 am

geospyder wrote:TomServo - which bar are you tending? You gave me an idea for some gifting.


BloodBath&Beyond. I plan to be on 7:00, but if you can't find me ask ToiBox @ roller disco. And, mine is a breakfast bar, so open in the mornings.
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Postby This Woman » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:10 am

would that be ballpoint pens or drunk cops, Geo?
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Postby TomServo » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:15 am

Please be drunk cops!
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Postby geospyder » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:37 am

This Woman wrote:would that be ballpoint pens or drunk cops, Geo?


For you a silver sheriff badge sticker and if you're real good a full color sheriff badge temporary tattoo.
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Postby This Woman » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:54 am

I'll be there! (maybe i can provide some drunk cops for Tom too).
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Postby TomServo » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:39 pm

Drunk cops are fun!
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maybe I missed it, but ...

Postby Lucian » Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:36 am

What did you offer for the drink ? A massage ? A gift ? A trick ? A kiss ?Anything ?

I've taken to the act of offering something with no expectation of return. And guess what ...

What are you bringing to the game ? Maybe plenty, but it's not clearly stated.
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