Helix Spire

Warm Bodies

Postby BRC Fairy Godmother » Thu May 20, 2010 8:51 am

Elegant simplicity, playful abandon, and all with a VIEW!!! You're really onto something wonderful here. If you're in the Bay Area, we can offer some slave labor, if you're interested...
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Postby Bob » Thu May 20, 2010 9:30 am

Lumber warps & twists in the desert. A lot. Enough to pop your toe-nails/screws. I'd consider hurricane clips or other steel straps, or at least be prepared to add them.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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Postby Ugly Dougly » Thu May 20, 2010 9:32 am

When it burns, it will fall in a spiral pattern, flinging pieces of burning lumber into the crowd, killing hundreds. Have a nice day.
Please to visit PAGE TWO.
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Postby Bob » Thu May 20, 2010 9:53 am

Oh, and it's never too early to think up clever captions for the DANGER signs the art dept is going to require.

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Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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Postby masho » Thu May 20, 2010 9:18 pm

Bob wrote:Oh, and it's never too early to think up clever captions for the DANGER signs the art dept is going to require.

Image


Love the sign, but I can't tell if you're joking or serious :wink:
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Postby masho » Thu May 20, 2010 9:19 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:When it burns, it will fall in a spiral pattern, flinging pieces of burning lumber into the crowd, killing hundreds. Have a nice day.


I like your style UD. Keep up the good work.
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Re: Warm Bodies

Postby masho » Thu May 20, 2010 9:26 pm

BRC Fairy Godmother wrote:Elegant simplicity, playful abandon, and all with a VIEW!!! You're really onto something wonderful here. If you're in the Bay Area, we can offer some slave labor, if you're interested...


Such kind words Fairy Godmother, thanks.
Our crew is pretty small so we can always use a hand but I'm afraid we're in Seattle :roll:

If the offer still stands once we get to the playa look us up. Cheers
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Postby Bob » Thu May 20, 2010 9:59 pm

masho wrote:Love the sign, but I can't tell if you're joking or serious


I've built a few things out there, starting in 1996, and reviewed structures for the theme camp crew.

Feel free to do whatever the fuck you want, though.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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Postby rodiponer » Fri May 21, 2010 9:41 am

The only warning sign I've seen at Burning Man is at the DPW heavy equipment parking lot.
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Fri May 21, 2010 9:52 am

masho wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote:When it burns, it will fall in a spiral pattern, flinging pieces of burning lumber into the crowd, killing hundreds. Have a nice day.


I like your style UD. Keep up the good work.


Thank you for the positive words, but I can't afford to take on any new disciples at this time. :)
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Postby masho » Fri May 21, 2010 10:19 am

Ugly Dougly wrote:
masho wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote:When it burns, it will fall in a spiral pattern, flinging pieces of burning lumber into the crowd, killing hundreds. Have a nice day.


I like your style UD. Keep up the good work.


Thank you for the positive words, but I can't afford to take on any new disciples at this time. :)


lol, I'm cool with that. What do you call "your" disciples?
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Postby masho » Fri May 21, 2010 10:21 am

rodiponer wrote:The only warning sign I've seen at Burning Man is at the DPW heavy equipment parking lot.


I liked the exit sign from last year that said something along the lines of "Drive carefully, we don't want you to die". I suppose that would count?
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Postby Bob » Fri May 21, 2010 10:56 pm

If it wasn't clear, my post about signage was a joke. My post about strapping was not.

BTW, did you consider wheelchair access?
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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Postby masho » Sat May 22, 2010 7:59 am

Bob wrote:If it wasn't clear, my post about signage was a joke. My post about strapping was not. BTW, did you consider wheelchair access?


This is currently our anchor of choice, mounted on the inside of the tower (non climbing side). This should easily handle a weeks worth of heat expansion, warping and checking, not to mention some of our uplift and shear concerns. Thanks for the suggestion.
Image


As for wheelchair access we did briefly consider it but a handicap ramp at 1:12 would have meant a 300ft long ramp (12'x 25' platform height) and we figured that with structure, railings, sheathing etc.... I wouldn't be able to fit all the materials into my pickup:wink:
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Postby Token » Sat May 22, 2010 9:24 am

Hi Masho,

You should listen to Bob. He has built a few things in his day.

Strapping will be essential for your structure. 2 x 4s are real bendy in the middle, esspecialy on a 7' span. Put a 200# tripin' hippie on there climbing and the flex and leverage you get to the nail/screw points is a few tons.

Unless you strap the load points so they don't wiggle out under all that repetitive load, your tower will come crumbling down.

A cheap and easy way to do this is with metal plumbers tape. It s an 1" wide metal tape with holes punched down the center. Plumbers use it to hang pipes and such from rafters.

Get a big ass spool of the stuff and run it down each edge of the protruding boards at the vertices of the apex. You must do all 8.

You might want to run one down each side as well in the middle of the long span of the 2 x 4.

This way all loads will be shared over several boards.

Godd luck.
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Postby masho » Sat May 22, 2010 9:49 am

Token wrote:Hi Masho,

A cheap and easy way to do this is with metal plumbers tape.....Get a big ass spool of the stuff and.......This way all loads will be shared over several boards.

Good luck.


Hey Token,

excellent advice and cheaper than the aforementioned mst strapping we planned on using. Thanks.
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Postby FIGJAM » Sat May 22, 2010 12:52 pm

Mind the sharp edges.
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

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Postby masho » Sat May 22, 2010 3:00 pm

FIGJAM wrote:Mind the sharp edges.


aye
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Postby Bob » Sat May 22, 2010 9:56 pm

I'm thinking another thing that might help suck down each level to the next, in lieu of hurricane clips, would be stapling heavy wire strands along the lines of the vertices, ie barbless fence wire. Cheaper than individual Simpson clips, if you bring an air stapler.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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Postby masho » Sun May 23, 2010 7:36 am

Bob wrote:I'm thinking another thing that might help suck down each level to the next, in lieu of hurricane clips, would be stapling heavy wire strands along the lines of the vertices, ie barbless fence wire. Cheaper than individual Simpson clips, if you bring an air stapler.


Sounds like we are on the same track Bob :wink:

We talked over using brads + light weight aircraft cable yesterday.
Image
This should reinforce the structure against uplift, vertical compression
and torsional issues without ruining the shadow pattern,
creating sharp edges in between the studs (like the plumbers tape)
and reduce the number of fasteners required (12 per hurricane anchor).
Costs less too.

Excellent input. Thanks
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Postby masho » Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:37 am

Likek this project? Want to kick in a couple bucks? Helix Spire now on Kickstarter

Cheer
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Postby masho » Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:35 pm

T-shirt logo :wink:

Charcoal t-shirt
Logo on back for now
Sleeve text: Helix Spire ~ Burning Man ~ MMX

Image
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:41 pm

I am sure it will be fun, cool and relatively safe. :)
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Postby Jordan 10-E » Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:14 pm

Being a builder of three large-scale wood towers at Burning Man and having experienced some of the major issues involved I would like to consult with you more about your plans for anchoring and guy lines... Burning Man will too.

Last year mine wasn't even technically meant to climb but it caused some serious concern in the Art Dept and DPW. So much so that an executive decision was made to take the installation down. You don't want this to happen. Part of this was that my first year the guy lines were not appropriate and one was severed by a roaming art car and consequently fell down (yeah sad to admit).

I am thinking that you will need to double-check some of your plans on your guy lines. Your cost estimates seem low for the cabling if you are going to be using a proper gauge wire. I can give you some ideas how you better cover that aspect of your installation. I know you are trying to keep costs down but that is one area that needs adequate consideration or you will run into safety issues that will may not turn out the way you hoped.

The other technical concern I have is that in your picture you have oriented your 2x4's on their narrow sides (I am sure to get more height) but I am wondering how you are attaching them together? Most nails or screws are normally driven through a 2x4 on it's widest flat side to make sure it penetrates enough into the other board. Flipping them on their narrow side makes this very difficult or outright impossible. The only real option I see is to toenail them together or use metal fasteners like plates or L-brackets. Using brackets would be unbelievably expensive and toenailing will not really give you the connective strength you are looking for, especially if you are allowing people to climb it. Plus toenailing is a pain. You really need to consider this.

I really like your idea and encourage you fully but I want to help you avoid some difficulties I have experienced in the past and keep your installation as safe and worry-free as possible. I will be happy to contact you via PM, email, or phone if you would like to consult.

You can see pictures of my 2005 (Tower of Order and Chaos) and 2006 (Tower of Triumphant Struggle) installations in the Burning Man photo gallery. There are no pictures in the gallery of my 2009 tower (Tower of Emergence) at this time. Here is the link:

http://images.burningman.com/index.cgi? ... x=0&go.y=0
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Postby masho » Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:20 pm

Jordan 10-E wrote:Being a builder of three large-scale wood towers at Burning Man and having experienced some of the major issues involved I would like to consult with you more about your plans for anchoring and guy lines... Burning Man will too.

I am thinking that you will need to double-check some of your plans on your guy lines. Your cost estimates seem low for the cabling if you are going to be using a proper gauge wire. I can give you some ideas how you better cover that aspect of your installation. I know you are trying to keep costs down but that is one area that needs adequate consideration or you will run into safety issues that will may not turn out the way you hoped.


I think you are spot on Jordan. We haven't heard back from Burning Man proper and I wouldn't be surprised if they had concerns as well. I'll contact you buy PM and arrange a phone call to discuss anchoring. Always good to hear what people are thinking. Thanks for offering.

Jordan 10-E wrote:The other technical concern I have is that in your picture you have oriented your 2x4's on their narrow sides (I am sure to get more height) but I am wondering how you are attaching them together?


This is another worthy concern, it's even discussed in this thread by Bob, Token, LeChat + myself. The quote below explains our current approach which is basically summed up by the phrase"post tension compression". I should also mention that we are doing a precautionary full spire build July 19th to work out some of the known kinks and to address the new ones that will undoubtedly pop up. The Spire will be up for a week of testing and abuse. Anyway....here's the quote:

masho wrote:
Bob wrote:I'm thinking another thing that might help suck down each level to the next, in lieu of hurricane clips, would be stapling heavy wire strands along the lines of the vertices, ie barbless fence wire. Cheaper than individual Simpson clips, if you bring an air stapler.


Sounds like we are on the same track Bob :wink:

We talked over using brads + light weight aircraft cable yesterday.
Image
This should reinforce the structure against uplift, vertical compression
and torsional issues without ruining the shadow pattern,
creating sharp edges in between the studs (like the plumbers tape)
and reduce the number of fasteners required (12 per hurricane anchor).
Costs less too.

Excellent input. Thanks


Jordan 10-E wrote:I really like your idea and encourage you fully but I want to help you avoid some difficulties I have experienced in the past and keep your installation as safe and worry-free as possible. I will be happy to contact you via PM, email, or phone if you would like to consult.


Thanks for the encouragement man. :wink: We really appreciate it. Our crew has built a lot of large scale projects (mostly houses, boat work and large shade structures) but we have limited experience with cable anchoring. I'll pm you right now and we can set up a phone call.
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Postby masho » Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:23 pm

bah....with all the cutting and pasting I forgot the most important part.

Nice towers Jordan :wink: Wish I had been there to see them in person.

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Image
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Postby Jackass » Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:28 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:When it burns, it will fall in a spiral pattern, flinging pieces of burning lumber into the crowd, killing hundreds. Have a nice day.


Really? In that case I will don fire resistant apparati! :mrgreen:
Don't worry, it'll get weird...
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Postby masho » Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:30 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:I am sure it will be fun, cool and relatively safe. :)


Thanks Dougly, any chance you reconsidered coming this year? or your position on disciples? :roll:
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Postby masho » Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:36 pm

Now on Kickstarter - feel free to kick in

Helix Spire - Kickstarter
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Postby masho » Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:46 pm

Thanks to everyone whose kicked in a few bucks via Kickstarter. Much appreciated. Here's a couple updated working photo's.

Spire parts all cut and ready to go for our first build this coming Monday
Image

2 of 7 three foot diameter lanterns that fill the center of the tower - daylight / twilight
Image

Image
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