Wheres the money go?

No matter your skills or interests, there's a way for you to participate in the creation and manifestation of Black Rock City, both at the event and year-round.

Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:58 am

These innovative new measures represent a comprehensive improvement to Burning Man's previous security plan, which had been "sort of scribbled on a napkin that was accidentally left under somebody's cocktail, and all the ink ran and we couldn't read it anymore," said Harvey. "That was, what, '97?" he shrugged.



i saved that napkin just in case of any legal ramifications.

oh, and by the way, i did bring my rifle that year and passed it off as merely a "fashion Accessory", that shows you how far we've "evolved"



my girlfriend and i went around dressed as great white hunters on safari for Hippies.


and i believe, if i'm not mistaken all proceeds we're Confiscated at the gate and held as Ransom by the Local Locals.
breathe deep, the playa is the dust of your ancestors

A gift for the Playa
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Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:32 pm

Igneouss wrote:Why isn't BRC, LLC chartered as a charitable organization? That's really the big question. It seems odd that an operation that exists only because thousands of people volunteer an enormous amount of labor would strive to be transparent.
I don't find the official explination that they don't want to spend the effort conforming with the regulations on that to be unreasonable. And I don't know that there aren't other $12 million a year organizations that don't release even less information than the llc. I do think it's odd that they lost a year of the afterburn reports. And some of us, not stupid or unused to thinking critically, dont' knwo the proper questions to ask about those reports.
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Postby Igneouss » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:54 pm

crypto,
Your response implies that I called you stupid. I did not. I was careful to separate my personal opinions from the questions. I was also careful to give appropriate credit to the folks who do the work.

What I do believe: lack of clarity is most likely due to the stress level on the organization and not due to any mal-intent. I'd guess that the LLC folks that do the work simply lack the time and energy for accounting presentations.

Chartering a non profit IS more work. It results in lower taxes however.

I will dispute one implication of yours - the afterburn reports do not even come close to establishing clarity. From a business and accounting standpoint they have a fox/hen house problem.

If you are actually curious about all this I'd suggest you look at churches as a model. The primary similarity is that they have a feduciary responsibility to a large community of members who generally give significant labor to the organization.

Home owner's associations is another.

Find the local accounting firm that handles these sorts of accounts in your local community. Take an accountant to lunch and you will be amazed at the horror stories and the simple steps to avoid same.

Guessing again: I suspect appropriate practices exist in the LLC. I am just surprised that they do not make it more public.

Another example: The organization that I recently stepped out of had folks that ran the business and a separate, unpaid, board of directors elected from the masses. The books were open to the board. No money could be deposited or spent without the knowledge of the board. Simple enough. But one more step included an annual business meeting that took place at the event and was open to all. This meeting was where the masses got to see what the elected board members were doing. The presentation also included the previous years audited accounting.

I hope you take all this as sincere and respectful discussion and in no way intended to insult anyone.

Cheers
Ig
Basic b/e analysis:
2005 $243K
06 $855K
07 $1.0M
08 $1.1M
09 $0
10 $1.1M
11 $1.2M
12 $1.2M
That’s $6.8M that thousands of volunteers deserve to know about. Capitalism is alive at BM. Tickets are the commodity. Others have estimated higher profits.
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Postby mdmf007 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:19 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
Igneouss wrote:Why isn't BRC, LLC chartered as a charitable organization? That's really the big question. It seems odd that an operation that exists only because thousands of people volunteer an enormous amount of labor would strive to be transparent.
I don't find the official explination that they don't want to spend the effort conforming with the regulations on that to be unreasonable. And I don't know that there aren't other $12 million a year organizations that don't release even less information than the llc. I do think it's odd that they lost a year of the afterburn reports. And some of us, not stupid or unused to thinking critically, dont' knwo the proper questions to ask about those reports.


They have full time Bean Counters, Non-Profit status is pretty easy to maintain actually. Its the accounting that matetrs most.

I think BM has no obligation as an LLC to post the numbers, Id like to see them out of curiosity, but have no expectations. The numbers as posted dont add up. anyone who has cut and pasted the accounting, and the ticket sales for the year know theres a big gap.

I believe that the Thousands of people that volunteer hundreds of thousands of man hours may rethink if there was a huge profit being coffered.
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Pee and Poo

Postby trees » Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:42 am

How about 3/4 of a million dollars taking care of your pee and poo...1 million to the BLM and...

http://financials.burningman.com/

We burn the man, we burn the cash, we have fun...
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Postby Cala Vera » Sun May 30, 2010 12:51 pm

[quote="mk-ultra"]Ahhh... "overpriced food."

Clearly, you're a return burner who is disgusted by the rampant commercialism out on the playa.

I'm deeply offended by the prices charged at all the food stalls too! $7 for a burner-dog?! That's totally unacceptable.

I'm also tired of spending $3 per gallon for water delivery and $2 per bag of MOOP disposal.

I think we should form a protest group and demand cheaper and better infrastructure services from these asshole/profiteering BM organizers.

WTF! We blow nearly $250 and have to SUFFER the indignity of dust, no A/C, and have to haul our own poop out?!

You should file a civil suit in Nevada to redress your grievances. I'll be right behind you.. honest.

P.S. - Do us all a favor and find an excuse for not attending this year, k?[/quote]



This will be my first year out at Burning Man. I've been to several other burns and I've never seen anything for sale other than ice. It is radical self reliance all the way. Now I hear that people actually vend at Burning Man?

What other things do we have to pay for? How much money does one typically need to bring? I do not plan on buying things from individuals, because to me that goes against the ten principles and the entire reason that BM exists in the first place....but if there are other fees... MOOP fees, etc, I would need to know about them in advance.

I'd like to hear more about this from others who have attended BM... both sides of the story would be appreciated.

My heart starts beating faster every time I think of being there this year. No matter how many posts I read I still don't feel like I will be prepared for what I find in the desert this year.

Thank you all for your input!
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Postby gaminwench » Sun May 30, 2010 12:57 pm

the post you quote was pure snark/sarcasm... the only things for sale are ice and cafe goods- coffee, tea, electrolytes... anyone else 'vending' should be run out on a rail!
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Postby trees » Sun May 30, 2010 1:38 pm

You could probably get away with selling your soul or trading it but it would be best to just gift it to as many people as you can.
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Postby Cala Vera » Sun May 30, 2010 2:02 pm

[quote="gaminwench"]the post you quote was pure snark/sarcasm... the only things for sale are ice and cafe goods- coffee, tea, electrolytes... anyone else 'vending' should be run out on a rail![/quote]

Ok, good... Thanks for clarifying that for me. For a moment there I was quite traumatized...

eventually I will see the snarky posts for what they are... pure bullshit... but my virgin radar is not operating at full frequency just yet.

Thank you for setting me straight on that... and I will absolutely indulge in the cafe's electrolytes and other goodies.

Coffee in the desert... does it exist??

And I would be interested in anyones perspective on the weather at BRC... what was your first experience in the desert like???
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Postby theCryptofishist » Sun May 30, 2010 2:05 pm

The last 36 hours on the playa my first year involved an unending dust storm, the death of my truck and a nutcase.
It's amazing that I ever came back.
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Postby Cala Vera » Sun May 30, 2010 2:15 pm

[quote="theCryptofishist"]The last 36 hours on the playa my first year involved an unending dust storm, the death of my truck and a nutcase.
It's amazing that I ever came back.[/quote]

But you[b] did[/b] go back, and probably many times since... in true burner fashion.

Nothing can keep me away from Burning Man now that I have become a part of the burner community and attended and volunteered at other events.

I see a yearly trek to the desert in my future and I haven't even set foot there yet. It took me 40 years to find a community that I actually feel comfortable being a part of. The burner community offers freedom of expression, heart-based communication, self reliance and sister/brotherhood at the same time and absolute awe inspiring fire...and I'll be damned if I don't participate as fully as I can...dust storm or not!

I guess I need to buy me some of those fancy goggles.... are they ski goggles? Army goggles? where do I get them ... Army surplus?
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Postby trees » Sun May 30, 2010 2:17 pm

There will be dust storms. Have goggles, dust mask/bandanna, and water on hand at all times. Some choose to freak out, some choose to sit and relax others choose to wander aimlessly in the sea of dust. It is what it is and it will stop when it wants so the best thing you can do is make peace with a form of nature we are seldom surrounded by. Dust storms calm me, like a blissful dream. Relax, let yourself go but turn your headlamp on and ring your bell so crazies in mutant vehicles or on bikes don't run you over. :shock: It will be hot, it will be cold, it will be dry and it might even get wet. Be prepared for all conditions! Clean your feet periodically with soap and water, towel dry, moisturize with straight Bronners liquid soap. You will feel like a million bucks. Bring a spray bottle with you. When it's hot spray it in your face while walking and riding. Dreamy. We are officially off-topic.
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Postby goathead » Sun May 30, 2010 2:23 pm

trees wrote:You could probably get away with selling your soul or trading it but it would be best to just gift it to as many people as you can.


or bring it to me and I will make a stone out of it
Ffwcio eich diwrnod
Jebem ti dan
Tpaxhnte ball aehb
Nasrat na vas den
Namaste, zkurvysynu

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Postby Cala Vera » Sun May 30, 2010 2:31 pm

oh right... topic... Where does the money go, anyway? lol

just kidding...The construction of BRC has got to be difficult, time consuming and very involved. No doubt there are dozens, possibly hundreds or even thousands of things that participants don't think about that go into the process of making BM happen.

I did ask myself the same question about where the money goes at one point, but I still feel like even 300 bucks a ticket is worth it for me to have 'the experience of a lifetime every year', as someone on these forums so eloquently put it. I don't care where the money goes, really, as long as I get there.
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Postby Here and there » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:44 pm

Cala Vera wrote:are they ski goggles?


Depends on what bothers you more - heat or dust? Ski goggles tend to be ventilated along the side, so some of the dust gathering on top is going to have a chance to drift down inside, next to your eyes. But moisture will escape and you'll have something that you can wear for a while, until you have to shake the dust out. Don't know how long that will be.

What I use are scuba googles. They'll steam up for me after maybe about 15 to 20 minutes, but that's a lot longer than the duration of the average dust storm. They're great at keeping out the dust, and I can tell you that the storms seem to bother me a lot less than they bothered the people around me. But then I'm totally into the scenery during those storms, so that might affect my experience.
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Postby swampdog » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:15 am

To the original topic. Silly question. Money goes away. That's what money does.
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Postby bm_cricket » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:25 am

theCryptofishist wrote:The last 36 hours on the playa my first year involved an unending dust storm, the death of my truck and a nutcase.
It's amazing that I ever came back.


You had a nutcase? I had a nutcase!

(Mine was my ride home.. At least the muttering went away for most of the stretch between Owens Valley and Palmdale... I've made some stupid choices over the years...)
)'(
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Postby Fire_Moose » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:45 am

Evidently, the money goes to Larry and Yardz...

For hookers and blow

So find them out there

they will be the 2 guys with a shit ton of hookers and blow
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Postby l3iodeez » Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:33 pm

Worth noting that the last year in which financial details were made public is 2006. Its now 2010. Could it be because the owners of this private LLC don't want you to know that they are pocketing the profit like every other owner of a private LLC in the country? That they want to to believe its all for the love when actually they are putting their kids through college and keeping the lights on in their McMansion?

Don't get me wrong theres nothing wrong with making a buck, or even tons of bucks, but if you're gonna be holier-than-thou about gift economies and such when you are just as much a capitalist as anyone else, then you annoy me.

As a previous poster said, they are a business that provides a service for a fee, and makes profits. There are many ways it could be set up, BMORG chose to be an LLC, hence they are in it for the cash.
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Postby bx1 » Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:42 pm

hmmmm....

Image
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THE BUSH (Returning bigger and badder in 2011):

http://www.placesafterdark.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=872

Image
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