Helix Spire

Helix Spire

Postby masho » Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:14 pm

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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gekUz6czk0[/youtube]

Helix Spire - Facebook
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Postby vargaso » Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:40 pm

I like it. Would have been cool for the Evolution theme last year, but I wouldn't let the theme dictate anything. Do it!
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Postby masho » Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:59 am

Agreed Vargaso,

Unfortunately last year was my first and I wasn't up to speed. Thanks for the positive feedback.

Cheers.
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Postby veleda » Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:14 pm

What is the budget like for this thing?
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Postby motskyroonmatick » Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:21 pm

Cool. I'd love to check it out and watch it burn. Best of luck!
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Postby LeChatNoir » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:42 am

Wow, masho…

I really like this idea. I imagined it from way far away at night and just that thought gave me that excited,[i] “Let’s run and see what that is!â€
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Postby masho » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:50 am

veleda wrote:What is the budget like for this thing?


Hey Veleda

currently mats off the top of my head....(trucking, fab, tools, power generation not included).

(200) 2x4's - $640 +/-
(2) 4x8 sheets 5/8" ply - $50
120' aircraft cable - $50
swaging - $45
rebar - $40
(8) 4x8 sheets hardiboard - fire sheild - $200
(1) deep cycle battery - $75
(4) steel stand off poles - $100
(?) nails - $120
(7) paper lanterns - $70
(7) led lighting strings - $70

So about $1500 +/- for mats.
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Postby masho » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:51 am

motskyroonmatick wrote:Cool. I'd love to check it out and watch it burn. Best of luck!


Us too, thanks Motsky
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Postby masho » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:56 am

[quote="LeChatNoir"]Wow, masho…

I really like this idea. I imagined it from way far away at night and just that thought gave me that excited,[i] “Let’s run and see what that is!â€
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Postby LeChatNoir » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:24 am

Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lighting (CCFL) gives off a lot of light for the watt and they’re pretty affordable. Usually less than $10 per pair. We’ll be using some UV CCFL's like these this year on our project.

gyre or oscillator could probably advise on this better then me, but CCFL's certainly seem to be more diffused/diffusable than LEDs.
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Postby masho » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:32 am

LeChatNoir wrote:Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lighting (CCFL) gives off a lot of light for the watt and they’re pretty affordable. Usually less than $10 per pair. We’ll be using some UV CCFL's like these this year on our project.

gyre or oscillator could probably advise on this better then me, but CCFL's certainly seem to be more diffused/diffusable than LEDs.


Ossum. much appreciated.
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Postby CapSmashy » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:09 pm

Simple, elegant and I can climb on it! I love it!
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Postby CapSmashy » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:10 pm

On your materials list, what kind of 2x4's are using?

Last batch of stud length (7'9" instead of 8') 2 by's I picked up were around $1.10 apiece.
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Postby Bounce530 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:49 pm

Can't wait to get up on top of this!!
Thank you.
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Postby masho » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:14 pm

CapSmashy wrote:On your materials list, what kind of 2x4's are using?

Last batch of stud length (7'9" instead of 8') 2 by's I picked up were around $1.10 apiece.


We are pricing 2x4x8 standard spf (spruce,pine,fir a la man bear big). What we use in the end depends on the build location. Makes sense to me to pay for the shorter versions as the sticks get shorter though, less waste and cost, a win win, thanks Cap.
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Postby masho » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:15 pm

Bounce530 wrote:Can't wait to get up on top of this!!
Thank you.


Likewise
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Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:57 pm

masho wrote:
CapSmashy wrote:On your materials list, what kind of 2x4's are using?

Last batch of stud length (7'9" instead of 8') 2 by's I picked up were around $1.10 apiece.


We are pricing 2x4x8 standard spf (spruce,pine,fir a la man bear big). What we use in the end depends on the build location. Makes sense to me to pay for the shorter versions as the sticks get shorter though, less waste and cost, a win win, thanks Cap.

masho, you have no idea what a mind-fuck this post was to me.

(And not for anything you could guess or that I could hold you responsible for, it's just weird and you can sort of dismiss it.)
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Postby masho » Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:36 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
masho wrote:
We are pricing 2x4x8 standard spf (spruce,pine,fir a la man bear big). What we use in the end depends on the build location. Makes sense to me to pay for the shorter versions as the sticks get shorter though, less waste and cost, a win win, thanks Cap.

masho, you have no idea what a mind-fuck this post was to me.

(And not for anything you could guess or that I could hold you responsible for, it's just weird and you can sort of dismiss it.)


Sorry Crypto I wasn't trying to being malicious or vague although I apparently succeeded on both counts. Hopefully it doesn't come between us. My apologies.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:53 pm

masho wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
masho wrote:
We are pricing 2x4x8 standard spf (spruce,pine,fir a la man bear big). What we use in the end depends on the build location. Makes sense to me to pay for the shorter versions as the sticks get shorter though, less waste and cost, a win win, thanks Cap.

masho, you have no idea what a mind-fuck this post was to me.

(And not for anything you could guess or that I could hold you responsible for, it's just weird and you can sort of dismiss it.)


Sorry Crypto I wasn't trying to being malicious or vague although I apparently succeeded on both counts. Hopefully it doesn't come between us. My apologies.

No you were not being malicious or vague. I saw something in the totality of the post which simply isn't there without a couple extra facts/experiences that I have and you don't. Please don't think you offended me, I just experienced a little oddness there, that's all.
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Postby masho » Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:50 pm

good, Thanks Crypto
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Postby domitron » Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:57 pm

This will be very awesome on the playa. The helix is mysterious and beautiful. One thing I really like about it is the simplicity and low cost. It'll be awesome to see it burn too!
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Postby masho » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:06 am

domitron wrote:This will be very awesome on the playa. The helix is mysterious and beautiful. One thing I really like about it is the simplicity and low cost. It'll be awesome to see it burn too!


Thanks for the positive feedback. Nice to know that somebody appreciates a little restraint.
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Postby masho » Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:39 pm

Image
Image
new renderings
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Postby LeChatNoir » Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:04 pm

How are you planning on dealing with the possibility of racking in the structure. A square without diagonal bracing and fastened only at the corners could easily become a trapezoid.
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Postby masho » Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:57 pm

LeChatNoir wrote:How are you planning on dealing with the possibility of racking in the structure. A square without diagonal bracing and fastened only at the corners could easily become a trapezoid.


We have a scheduled full build prior to burning man in mid-july to work out the kinks.

"So far" we haven't had any racking issues but we haven't built to full height either. The small scale models we've built have acted more like a cylinder than a series of stacked up rectangles. The rotation of the rectangular layers creates two triangles every layer or 4 triangles every pair of layers (one full square) parallel to the horizontal plane which stiffens the structure. So basically the shape of the tower reinforces it self. It is more or less a "helix" after all.

We are also using the connection between members to prevent racking. Initially we looked into using lag bolts, which ends up being a lot of work. Next we moved on to thru-bolts which worked better but unfortunately the thru-bolts acted as a "pin" connection which was counter productive. Currently we are using crossed toenails which has worked well so far.

In the end if we find we still don't have enough torsional bracing after the structure is at full height we'll add crossed cable tension bracing or simpson mst trap bracing (more "x's basically).
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Postby LeChatNoir » Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:07 pm

Ah, yes. After looking at it again, I see that each corner is actually a small triangle. One idea coud be to use high quality screws instead of nails. This would probably give a better connection and allow disassembly/reassembly as well.

I used ones like these here to build a porch last year. Pricey, but I was really impressed with them self drilling and a long shank so they don't jack the top board like a typical screw.

Pulls down very tight.
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Postby masho » Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:31 pm

Those are some great screws in my experience and as many will attest, a little screwing is a good thing. . They'd do the job nicely, especially in regards to cinching things up. Thanks.
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Update 5/15/10

Postby masho » Sat May 15, 2010 2:56 pm

The spire is coming along nicely. We are happy to say that with relatively few fasteners the spire is stable and easy to climb. With a bit of anchoring, compression cables and some lateral support we should be in good shape.

Here are a few preliminary build pix. This pictured segment of the tower is roughly 7' tall or 1/4 of the entire tower.

If you are curious and want to see more pictures " click here"
If you are interested in helping out in some way join the Facebook group "Faceneedle "
If you still can't get enough check out our official "website" :wink:

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Postby bm_cricket » Sat May 15, 2010 4:26 pm

Beautiful! My great words of advice as a builder, burner, and playa idiot: Over engineer your structure!

If you can think of a way for someone to hurt themselves on it, or break it, or hurt someone else, or break something related to it... they there are 10 other ways you haven't even considered. Burners are talented and creative people. They will find a way. In other words over engineer it!

Once again I must say how much I like it. It's elegant in it's simplicity. I look forward to seeing it this summer!!

Please don't take my advice as condescending. I love this project and I love your effort to contribute to the experience on the playa. Since you said this was only your second year and your first playa project I just wanted to remind you of who and what you are dealing with. Burners and Black Rock desert both require a level of idiot proofing and environmental extremes you would usually only encounter by building a children's playground in Antarctica. Black Rock is a special place! :-)
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Postby masho » Sun May 16, 2010 4:18 pm

bm_cricket wrote:My great words of advice as a builder, burner, and playa idiot: Over engineer your structure!

Thanks for the sage advice. We'll do our best.

bm_cricket wrote: Burners are talented and creative people. They will find a way.....

I couldn't agree more.

bm_cricket wrote:Once again I must say how much I like it. It's elegant in it's simplicity. I look forward to seeing it this summer!!

Excellent. We look forward to meeting you.

bm_cricket wrote:Please don't take my advice as condescending. I love this project and I love your effort to contribute to the experience on the playa.

Hadn't crossed my mind until you brought up. :wink:
Again, thanks, we really appreciate your thoughts and advice.

Cheers
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