Power To The Playa... From Germany!

Postby kvon » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:44 am

Hello to everyone.

I am here on this day to report, our final results and measurements are completed and, as hoped, exceeded projections and expectations.
The controllers of our financial have committed to the next phase of our project, (equipment acquisition, hiring of more staff, some research), but with caveats and some reservations........

It seems they are very concerned with my posting of the information publicly, as they observed my postings here, surreptitiously.
I have been chastised for this, but, I am hoping, have convinced them I have divulged nothing of import related to proprietary information, and, none of the information I've shared, could, endanger their patent applications.

I am very much in hoping I am correct with my assumption, and, they will not dismiss me from this project.
This has me very concerned.

They also have much concern regarding the installation and corporate espionage, related to our techniques and devices.
They feel during installation, on your playa ( if they approve your playa for location), it will be possible to photograph and glean other information regarding this, via "Google earth or other satellite services" and persons on site with photographic equipment.

They have instructed me to contact the leaders of Burning Man and learn if it will be possible to find the exact location for the next festival, and, ascertain whether it will be possibly for to install our sub-surface equipment prior to the majority of the werkers arrival for festival construction.

I am wondering, other than contacting the Burning Man Org., if anyone knows or can suggest any other oversight agencies that may have authority? I am confident, the leaders of B.M. can answer my questions and requests regarding early construction, as far as their authority exists, but, am concerned there are other agencies involved.
If anyone has information or ideas related, please feel free to post or PM them to me.

I am also researching the possibility of "directional boring", a technique using remote underground tunneling equipment that can be directed from one location, possible for allowing the installation of our devices with minimum surface disturbance.

Another hope, is, that we may be able to install the entire sub-surface elements in only one or two days or nights........thus allaying the fears of our "financiers/controllers" related to espionage/photography by competitors.

I had not realized how much secrecy is required by our financial partners, and, their concerns related to others (even governments, as they so state) obtaining information related to our project.

So,
If any of you here can help me in solving these problems, I will much appreciate it.
I will be doing all I can here, but, I'm sure it would be much help to have a person or more, in your country, that may be able to assist in information gathering.

I have been charged with this duty, in addition to my science related work on the project, due to my contacts established on this fine board.
I stated I am happy and willing to take this extra work, if, it helps bring this project to your playa.
For many reasons, I would much look forward to a journey there.

This new "workload", may interfere with my time for much posting, but, I will endeavor to keep in contact with you all, via this board and the pm's and emails that have been ongoing.

Please be patient if I am delayed in private responses. I have received so many, that although edifying and appreciated, it can be difficult to respond in a timely fashion.

to personal matters.

Dragonfly Jafe:
I will be so happy to stop at your location, and, thank you for your invitation. I look forward to sampling this patriotic beer.
But, is it true, if I go, I can not return? It seems you indicate, that, "once you go, you never go back"
Does this indicate foreigners are not allowed multiple attendance?
And, I do understand your reference to a new person being over stimulated and such by this event. Unfortunately, my only opportunity to attend your festival is related to my work on this project, so, will have to balance work with attendance of festivities on your playa.

Gyre:
I do feel I understand your references to some of the humor here translating. No offense to Ygmir, please.
And, your offer of help. If you can describe what you may be willing and able to assist in. I will be creating a list of people for contacts as need arises. Thank you for this offer.

Pinemom:
Are there many French people in attendance?
:lol: (attempt at American humor, please, no offense meant)

Mr. Jellyfish Mister:
as always, your ongoing help here and via PM is very appreciated.

Ygmir:
I may well contact you related to your construction knowledge and offer of help. this will be important soon in convincing our "financiers" of our ability to install and operate this project in safety, and secrecy.
I will also, with Gyres help, attempt to understand more of your humor attempts. I appreciate your attempts at making me feel "one of you" with your humor.


To all (on a personal note):

the response to my appearance here on "Eplaya" and description of our project, along with the many offers of help, has been so gratifying and enlightening. I feel I am beginning to understand, and appreciate, of American culture.
I feel I am creating, at least electronically, for now, valued friendships.
I will looking forward to, if all works out, meeting you on your playa.

Please, excuse my lengthy posts.
I have so much information I feel I want to share, and, only limited time to spend on line.
So, I must share all that I can, when given the opportunity.

K
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Postby pinemom » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:39 pm

Kvon,
Oiu, oiu there is alot of Frenching!
Names pinemom, but my friends call me "Piney".
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Postby dragonfly Jafe » Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:25 pm

...Kvon, you could always disguise your installation by having the surface look like a half-finished Art project (there are, unfortunately, all too many of those at BM). That way, no one would be interested in it and no photographs would be taken...

I am sad to hear that you might try to complete most of your installation prior to BM - I was looking forward to doing some "gleaning" of my own (completely innocent, I assure you - I lack any sort of drive or ambition to actually DO anything with the data). You may wish to also contact the BLM (Bureau of Land Management, the US Government Agency responsible for the Black Rock Desert, and the "Land Lord" for BM). In general, trenching is frowned on, since it tends to leave permanent scars that last for years. Be sure to have a clean-up plan that includes details on how you will return the Playa to it's original condition (both above and below the surface). I have found that careful re-packing along with periodic tamping works well (for added assurance, sprinkle some PBR into the hole during the re-filling process). I would imagine if you tunneled far enough below the surface it would be OK (but expensive!!)


here is the website for the BLM Field Office with authority over the BM desert site;
http://www.blm.gov/nv/st/en/fo/wfo.html
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Postby Mister Jellyfish Mister » Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:50 am

Thank you, Kvon. Like Jafe, I am also very curious about your new power technology. Once again, I understand the need for secrecy in this crucial time in which your organization is seeking patents. Your idea of installing the sub-surface equipment over a brief period of a couple days is a sound one, but if you have a German equivalent of "Murphy's Law" in which anything that can go wrong will go wrong, multiply that by a factor of five when you arrive on the playa. You see, there are no hardware stores or equipment facilities for at least a two hour drive, and the access to heavy equipment through Burning Man's Department of Public Works has limited access and an unpredictable time table.

Does your sub-surface boring equipment allow for tunnels of small diameters to run power cables? I imagine little robots dragging a run of Romex cable underground. Anything larger might be an issue for the "Leave No Trace" ethos as they collapse and leave subsequent creases in the playa surface.

Good luck with the security issues. If it's any help, I had a U.S. Government confidential clearance from when I worked at Hughes Aircraft some years ago though I have since been debriefed.
Art cred: Georgie Boy 2011: www.mutantvehicle.com/georgie_boy.htm ; Ein Hammer 2010; Fluffer 2009; Zsu Zsu 2008; U-Me 2007; Mantis 2006; MiniMan and Pikes Of Paranoia 2005; Time Machine Mutant Vehicle 2004. www.MutantVehicle.com
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Postby ygmir » Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:51 pm

Mister Jellyfish Mister wrote:Thank you, Kvon. Like Jafe, I am also very curious about your new power technology. Once again, I understand the need for secrecy in this crucial time in which your organization is seeking patents. Your idea of installing the sub-surface equipment over a brief period of a couple days is a sound one, but if you have a German equivalent of "Murphy's Law" in which anything that can go wrong will go wrong, multiply that by a factor of five when you arrive on the playa. You see, there are no hardware stores or equipment facilities for at least a two hour drive, and the access to heavy equipment through Burning Man's Department of Public Works has limited access and an unpredictable time table.

Does your sub-surface boring equipment allow for tunnels of small diameters to run power cables? I imagine little robots dragging a run of Romex cable underground. Anything larger might be an issue for the "Leave No Trace" ethos as they collapse and leave subsequent creases in the playa surface.

Good luck with the security issues. If it's any help, I had a U.S. Government confidential clearance from when I worked at Hughes Aircraft some years ago though I have since been debriefed.


MJM:
shirtcocking?.......or, just boxers?

Kvon:
I know something about this directional boring equipment and service.......a dear friend ran a company that did just that .........he could steer the boring "head", as he explained it to me........they could start at one spot, dive under a freeway, or river, and, surface at the other side.......3 dimensional capability, according to him.
and, they pulled anywhere from 2" to 4' dia. pipe.........all without disturbing the surface. He claimed it was remarkably accurate. Position was monitored with a detector of sorts, which, could penetrate the ground using signals from the head to detector, to indicate depth, speed, and direction of travel.

If, you don't already have a company lined up, I can put you in touch with his company.
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Integrate generator into artwork?

Postby dewnorth » Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:33 am

Could Kvon's project be covered in some way to keep out onlookers and keep it's contents secret?

If the covering was designed to look like it was part of the Ein Hammer installation, it could blend in beautifully, while being protected from spying eyes.

Kvon:
What I suggest might not be possible because of the size of your project. Or there might be other reasons why a cover might not work. There are large domes, tents and other structures in Black Rock City. But I do not know details retarding structure sizes used.

A covering could also increase the complexity of the project.

Please disregard if this idea is "all wet" (a bad idea).
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Re: Integrate generator into artwork?

Postby Mister Jellyfish Mister » Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:25 am

dewnorth wrote:Could Kvon's project be covered in some way to keep out onlookers and keep it's contents secret?

If the covering was designed to look like it was part of the Ein Hammer installation, it could blend in beautifully, while being protected from spying eyes.

Kvon:
What I suggest might not be possible because of the size of your project. Or there might be other reasons why a cover might not work. There are large domes, tents and other structures in Black Rock City. But I do not know details retarding structure sizes used.

A covering could also increase the complexity of the project.

Please disregard if this idea is "all wet" (a bad idea).


You read my mind, Deworth! I wanted to mention something like this to Kvon, but I wanted to find out first if the Ein Hammer project received the necessary grant funding. According to Burning Man's website, artists should be notified if they were/were not awarded grants by March 15th so it should be any day now. Thanks for your input-- fingers crossed!
Art cred: Georgie Boy 2011: www.mutantvehicle.com/georgie_boy.htm ; Ein Hammer 2010; Fluffer 2009; Zsu Zsu 2008; U-Me 2007; Mantis 2006; MiniMan and Pikes Of Paranoia 2005; Time Machine Mutant Vehicle 2004. www.MutantVehicle.com
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Postby Roberto Dobbisano » Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:10 pm

have convinced them I have divulged nothing of import related to proprietary information, and, none of the information I've shared, could, endanger their patent applications.


i've got two words for you KVON, "Inscrutable Chinese"...


they are backward engineering it as i type.


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Postby kvon » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:33 am

hello, to everyone.

I am sorry to have been so long in not for posting.
Much, not all positive, has taken place since last I posted here.

It seems, my superiors have become agitated with my postings, feeling I've been overly forthcoming with details related to our work.
I have been on "suspension" from duties for 30 days, while they review my (alleged) transgressions.
During that time, I was without my laptop. It is the property of the project, and, it was confiscated, in order to peruse the contents and confirm I have not given secrets, or proprietary information, away.
I feel they may have even suspected I may have been involved in "corporate espionage".

I was near, to termination.

Thanks to the emails sent by some of you, fostering my claim of innocence, and vouching for my character, as relates to here, that I feel convinced my mentor (she is a very strict and disciplined scientist), that, I was doing work beneficial to our project, and, had not divulged any sensitive information.
She is very secretive (and rightly so) about our project. Not only related to her patent process and inventions, but, as relates to the demands of our "investors", who, are notorious for their adherence to strict secrecy.

I have been re-instated on a "probationary" term.
I attended many meetings, where, I was instructed as to dealings with "outside entities" and the like.

I now understand, that, in my zeal to help and promote our project, I may have compromised it.
Fortunately, my mentor has taken my plea to the investors, and, convinced them of my loyalty. She says, she has done this one favor for me, and, expects never to be in this position, again.
I'm sure, there will be some sort of "price" I must pay for this peccadillo, I have no idea as to what it will be.
I'm very much in hoping that I will not be demoted or humiliated.

Also;
on a brighter note, we have secured, in principal, the services of an underground directional boring company. Thanks to those of you who suggested contacts.

This will greatly aid in installing our device, below the surface of your playa (assuming the permits and permissions are acquired).
They claim, they are able to create the circular route, which, for this test, will be approximately 2km in diameter, with only two small surface penetrations.
This is good news, for environment remediation and in our proposal to the Burning Man organization, for permission to install below the perimeter fence line. We can adjust the size of the structure to meet the approximate profile of said fence, so as to minimize surface disturbance, since, (according to the Burning Man leaders), some disturbance is extant after said fence is installed.


to Denworth:
your cover idea is a fine one. We have now found it will be possible, during installation, to cover our surface work areas, since, they will be fairly small, just enough for the machinery and conduit to attain depth for installation.

Misterjellyfishmister:
Your help has been invaluable, and, the help of your numerous associates, as well.
I will email with a power proposal soon, when we have the drawings and information as to location and size of perimeter fencing for Black Rock City, on your playa.

Roberto Dobbisano:

Thank you for your concern regarding, (arguably), our most notorious competitor. We have intercepted several hacking attempts and suspect an Asian source.
Hopefully, we are be able to maintain our security.

I will post here, as progress is made. I will also use this thread for any requests for help with issues in your country, as may be reasonable.

I thank you all for your help and enthusiasm, in this endeavor. I feel, this group is helping muchly to bring our project to your playa.

I also feel, my mentor, is becoming somewhat curious about your festival.
She asks questions, to which I have responded with a suggestion she read from your site.
I am hoping, with time, she will agree to our participating and interacting with you all while we are there for testing. (assuming and wishing, for approval for your playa site)

K
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Art Installation Questionnaire

Postby Mister Jellyfish Mister » Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:55 pm

Thank you too, Kvon. I look forward to the next level of our discussions.

For you as for all of us that hope to bring installations, the Art Installation Questionnaire is up at http://forms.burningman.com/ArtInstallation2010 and I highly suggest you fill it out early. The reason is that when you are dealing with the people at Burning Man headquarters, it's good for them to have all of your information in their system already instead of trying to track it down later or starting from the middle or end of the discussion. I see your possible installation as an important service to the citizens of Black Rock City that may not be expecting electric power, but delighted to be gifted it none the less.
Art cred: Georgie Boy 2011: www.mutantvehicle.com/georgie_boy.htm ; Ein Hammer 2010; Fluffer 2009; Zsu Zsu 2008; U-Me 2007; Mantis 2006; MiniMan and Pikes Of Paranoia 2005; Time Machine Mutant Vehicle 2004. www.MutantVehicle.com
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Postby ygmir » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:03 pm

crossing fingers, toes, eyes (have you heard the farmer and the cross eyes bull joke?), hoping this works out...........

hhhhmm,,........a strict and disciplined female boss, and, you're in trouble?

That might be a good thing, depending on the punishment.......just sayin''''''''
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Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:25 am

All the boring companies I"ve worked for have been aboveground.
Simon's real sig line?

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Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:26 am

theCryptofishist wrote:All the boring companies I"ve worked for have been aboveground.

~yawn~
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Postby pntball727 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:57 pm

been following this topic since it started, and needless to say i am absolutely amazed...has got to be one the the most interesting things i have read about in awhile, (although know very very little about you alternate energy source) i can honestly say i am excited to hear more and really hope they are able to pull the trip to the playa off. again probably the millionth response you've gotten kvon, but if any additional help is needed i would be thrilled to help in any way i can, although minimal compared to most, as i am not nearly as experience in the scientific or geology side of things. cant wait for the next update :-)
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Postby Joe Buck » Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:45 pm

Hi Kvon,

I just became aware of this thread on eplaya and I have been reading all that has transpired. Sorry to hear you are in trouble for your well meaning efforts, I think that things will be OK in the end. Having such a nervous and secretive mentor is not an easy burden, I have been in your position before so I know. I hope this project becomes a reality for you and all of us citizens of Black Rock City, I personally can't think of a better time or place for this to happen. The ethos of BRC is radical self-reliance, exploratory alternative energy is already a part of that ethos, your project would be met with open hearts and open minds.

Sounds hopeful that it is not completely dead, since you are looking to BMorg approval and drilling companies.

I would just like to add a few comments, in case you have not already considered. As you have discovered, the citizens of BRC are more than helpful, there is no way we could build, and later remove all traces of BRC without such an atmosphere of community involvement. You wondered previously how this all happens without any authority to control and regulate, well I think you are beginning to understand by the number of people here who honestly want to help make this project a reality, it happens because people make it happen. By now I'm sure you are aware that BM takes place in a rather remote, and often inhospitable area. Assuming your mentor is still intrigued with the idea, one thing that you might try to impress upon her is that no matter how much financial support you have available to bring this to BM (and I'm sure that money is tight for your group), you will need the help and support of experienced burners here in the states to help with many aspects of the project, from arranging transport to help with installing on the playa, not to mention the not-insignificant logistical issues of you and your crews personal needs such as shelter and food. You have already laid the ground work for arranging that support by posting here and creating excitement among the burner community, if your mentor decides to go ahead with this project as part of BM, you should be commended for reaching out, not punished! So try and explain this to her if you have not already.

It is probably both a good (and potentially a bad thing) that your mentor has taken some interest in BM and is investigating the event, although, given that she seems to be rather nervous and authoritarian I would caution you that the whole thing might just freak her out, you might just want to convince her to stay at home! Then again, it might be just what she needs! I'm only partially joking here Kvon, but people see all the wild images of things at BM and create false (or maybe true) ideas of what it's all about. The truth is no one knows what it's all about, it is what you make of it. And what should your mentor, you and your project expect from it all? I don't have those answers, but given the honest interest on this board and the out-pouring of support you will find that what happens there will exceed your wildest imagination if you approach it with an open mind. The only truth I have discovered at BM is that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts; something begins with an idea that captivates a few people and it grows into something that exceeds what you expected from it because of the people and the interactions and the lasting friendships it creates. In this regard I would encourage your mentor to approach it with open eyes and heart. yes, place what safeguards necessary to protect your investment from piracy, but not so much as to exclude the contribution from other well-meaning, honest people. That would diminish the potential of the project more than you could know, trust me.

I might also add that if it turns out that you will not be able to bring this project to the playa, I would encourage you to come by yourself anyways!

Good luck!
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Postby dragonfly Jafe » Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:04 pm

Yes, the Burner Community includes some very smart and generous people (as evidenced by a high % of Burners staring in the recent "make something cool in a short time" shows popular in the USA), and everyone that attends is somewhat select in that they made it to a far-away inhospitable location, so there is a "comrades in arms" type bond between participants. What happens at BM stays at BM.

Will there be any demonstrations? Or possibly some power available at a few select locations (like the Plaza's or deep in the Playa?) For instance, a light plugged in way out in the middle of nothing would be a neat surprise.
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Postby ygmir » Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:15 pm

a light in the middle of nowhere would be very cool indeed.

I'm hoping Kvon has gotten himself out of the hot water he said he was in.

and, isn't all trussed up, being flogged and brutalized............his "mentor" sounds delicious...........
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Postby Joe Buck » Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:58 am

ygmir wrote:...and, isn't all trussed up, being flogged and brutalized............his "mentor" sounds delicious...........


Ha! when you describe it like that you make it sound fun Ygmir, maybe I have not given the "mentor' enough credit, I can think of several camps where she would fit right in!
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Postby illy dilly » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:08 pm

ygmir wrote:a light in the middle of nowhere would be very cool indeed.

I'm hoping Kvon has gotten himself out of the hot water he said he was in.

and, isn't all trussed up, being flogged and brutalized............his "mentor" sounds delicious...........

Sounds like his mentor may need to meet Trishntek! Just joking.
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Postby Snow » Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:48 pm

I have been pointed toward your project and am more than willing to lend my professional expertise. I am well versed in environmental remediation and even more importantly, interacting/permitting with the local, state and federal agencies on many nevada mining and geothermal energy projects. I'm also a soils engineer, but looks like you already have help in that area. My primary professional experience pertains to soil and groundwater remediation and am very familiar with "the playa" hydrology. As I don't want to get you into further trouble with your mentor, we can discuss this project further by PM. I've also worked on the yucca mountain project so am well used to secrecy. I am very intrigued by your project.
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Postby Snow » Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:57 pm

I've installed several horizontal wells via directional boring and it is an amazing technology, I do have some local contacts if you require them.
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Postby kvon » Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:57 am

hello, and, greetings to all.
Happy, though belated, Easter, and, Oestara (for my Pagan friends)

I am regretful regarding my lack of communications as of late.
mostly, it is due to my "probation", terms of which I have been reinstated under, but, must be strictly adhered with.
I have gotten many, and very helpful, PM's and emails, and, thank you all for that.
I must tell you, though, that I have been instructed not to have personal communications with people on Eplaya, (or elsewhere, regarding our project) unless and until our patent process is approved and granted.
As terms of my probation, I must allow my mentor, to monitor all communications via my computer, and, specifically, this site.
This edict eminates from our board of investors, directly.
They have great misgivings about my public dissemination of information regarding our project, and, feel I've been much to openly about this.

I have been fortunate, that, I was able to directly communicate my reasoning to the board, and so was able to convince them I was working in their best interest.
With the help of my mentor (she graciously offered to allow me to plead my innocence, beg forgiveness, and, offered her own assistance in the convincing arguments.)
I am very grateful and indebted to her for her kindness and attitude in allowing me this opportunity.

to all who have responded;
MrJellyfishMister
Ygmir
Snow
illy dilly
joe buck
Wustling
Autocrat
dragonflyjafe
pntball727
Cryptofishist
and any I've forgotten:

I can not express the appreciation for your messages, public and private.
Please to understand, I am not ignoring you, but, feel at this tenuous juncture in my career and association with this fine project, I can not communicate any information regarding this project, publicly or privately, until given permission by my mentor. She has warned me I will be dealt with severely if I transgress further.

with all this said, I must say, the intrigue, and excitement, are building within me for hopefully attending your festival.
I have been reading much regarding the time there.
I suspect, as well, my mentor, has also. Since, in social setting
conversations, we have had some discussions regarding the art and activities that seem to have no limits there on your playa, and, how, we are determined, if allowed to go, to have some time to participate.
This heartens me, as I feel she will have added impetus to attend.

I am allowed to tell you, we have contacted two firms regarding directional boring and feel one of them will meet our requirements for construction and discretion, so, will not need further suggestions regarding that issue.

Mr. JellyfishMister:
your thoughts and ideas regarding power stations and, public displays of generation and synchronization, have been proposed to the "site committee" for their perusal. They have preliminarily accepted your proposals, in theory, and, owing to what seems your high standing among the hierarchy of the event, feel they will prefer to deal with you exclusively regarding this. If, you can not participate, they will consider anyone you may appoint, in your stead.

Thank you all for your time and well wishes..........and I hope you understand my need to stay within the limits of communication, as relates to my station within this project.

K
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Postby illy dilly » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:20 pm

Thanks for keeping us posted!
Glad to hear it looks like a possibility!
Don't do anything that would get you in trouble!
Why don't ya stick your head in that hole and find out? ~piehole
Plan for the worst, expect the best. Make the most out of it under any conditions. If you cannot do that you will never enjoy yourself. ~CrispyDave
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Postby ygmir » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:51 pm

yeah, what illy dilly said....except.........

if your mentor, is the dominating person it seems, German and all........getting in a little trouble may not be so bad..........


haahaaaa, (just joking, Kvons' mentor)

When you can feel free to communicate privately again, please email or PM me for more details on our discussion.
no hurry, things can wait.
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Zauberei

Postby gyre » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:15 pm

Kvon, I'm sorry to hear of these issues.

I was ill when all this happened, so I am only now hearing about this.
I don't have your email, or I would have written before.

If I can be of some help in this matter, send me the email of your boss.
I can assure her that in spite of your apparent transparency, no one here knows what the hell you're talking about.
I will be happy to let her know my technical background, security clearances and the amount of proprietary information I am often aware of.
Like you, I often give the impression that I don't keep anything secret, and like you, turns out I can.

I have some familiarity with electronics and electricity, but all I can conclude so far from the information I know, is that perhaps magic is somehow involved?


I hope the investors realize that even if they are unhappy with your efforts, your ideas may gain much that is useful to your project.
And the possible science and engineering contacts that could be made on the playa, may be essential to success.

Good luck!
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Postby dragonfly Jafe » Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:32 pm

...yes, I can't begin to figure out what you are talking about (and I have played around with "alternate energy" for years as a hobby - fan of Tesla, etc), but I will be looking along the trash fence for signs of your installation and possible power outlets! I hope your plans come to fruition this year (knowing how difficult logistically bringing large installations to BM and succeeding can be). Best of luck!
Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.
Arthur Schopenhauer
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Postby Mister Jellyfish Mister » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:18 pm

kvon wrote:
Mr. JellyfishMister:
your thoughts and ideas regarding power stations and, public displays of generation and synchronization, have been proposed to the "site committee" for their perusal. They have preliminarily accepted your proposals, in theory, and, owing to what seems your high standing among the hierarchy of the event, feel they will prefer to deal with you exclusively regarding this. If, you can not participate, they will consider anyone you may appoint, in your stead.


Thank you, Kvon. Now that you have given me permission and yourself made it public, I would like to inform e-playa members of our initial intent of collaboration.

As some of you may know, my Ein Hammer project has been chosen for grant funding to bring to Burning Man 2010. We are working with a crew of about 40 volunteers and you can read about the project at www.mutantvehicle.com/ein_hammer.htm and also click on the progress blog there to see what's new. Kvon and I started a discussion a while back about how I could help his organization could bring their alternative energy testing to Burning Man in a way that was in keeping with other artistic installations, and we were quick to discover some similarities between our respective projects...

* Both of them are "power" themed
* His need for installing equipment underground and my concept of underground workers and power turbines fit together nicely
* My project's need for electric power to run it
* My project is inspired by a German film (Metropolis) and his project is from Germany

There are other elements of agreement and commonality that we are still exploring. The cooperation of those I have spoken to at BMORG when I visited them in San Francisco regarding this is very encouraging as it relates to their grant funding and heavy equipment systems and practices.

Please be patient while we try and work this out, if it does indeed work out at all. Thanks for your interest.

Be well and do strange things.
Art cred: Georgie Boy 2011: www.mutantvehicle.com/georgie_boy.htm ; Ein Hammer 2010; Fluffer 2009; Zsu Zsu 2008; U-Me 2007; Mantis 2006; MiniMan and Pikes Of Paranoia 2005; Time Machine Mutant Vehicle 2004. www.MutantVehicle.com
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Postby illy dilly » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:15 pm

I don't want to be a party pooper, but I feel that we should discuss possible safety hazards with testing an alternative power source running the entire out side of the city.
In my industry we only use looped power sources for a few minimal things, but also have to be very careful of the possible dangers that can come from looped power, and risks of looping continuous conductive material. I honestly don't know a ton about this stuff, just what we have to worry about at work, so if someone could explain to me how its totally safe I'd appreciate it. I hate to say it, but with out knowing anything about what he's doing, I'm not sure we should all just jump on board.

Creating a ring of conductive materials makes an antenna. It is by far one of the most useful and simple electric phenomenon. If an antenna isn't controlled it can start to conduct, mostly not hazardous but to electronics and radio waves, but in the wrong circumstance (high electrostatic that is often present in dry climate, and during lighting storms) it can be deadly. Even if the antenna is grounded at each end, it can still carry voltage along its path to the ground, if anything connects with the antenna along that path it can get fried. If not lethal it may just cause that uncomfortable, hair standing up, feeling.

Also, creating a continuous horizontal ring, Omnidirectional Antenna, can really mess up electronics and radio waves that pass by it, if the antenna isn't tuned properly. I'm a little worried that while all the emergency personnel sit inside this huge antenna it ends up jamming their radios and communication is lost. I also don't know how one would tune a possible antenna that's never been built before and that may not be constant considering its a test of a new energy (I'm sure their are people that do know how).

My last concern is with magnetic fields. We install looped wires, run very low levels of power through them and create magnetic fields that are sensitive to metals a meter away. The rings cut into roads at stop lights, electric gates, and even on the high way are pretty basic magnets used as metal detectors but aren't strong enough to present a noticeable force. I know that when a metal object drives over one of these rings, it changes the magnetic fields with in the wring, tripping a sensor at the control box. We've never installed one, but there are systems that are so touchy that even a human bodies nervous system trips the sensor. I'm concerned what will happen to all the metal on the playa if we create a huge magnetic ring?

I'd love to have power on the playa. I'd love for Burning Man to be a place were a new alternate power source is further developed. I just think there are some possible problems.

Plus they're German, for all we know their trying to invade! (just kidding)
Why don't ya stick your head in that hole and find out? ~piehole
Plan for the worst, expect the best. Make the most out of it under any conditions. If you cannot do that you will never enjoy yourself. ~CrispyDave
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Postby ygmir » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:20 pm

illy dilly wrote:I don't want to be a party pooper, but I feel that we should discuss possible safety hazards with testing an alternative power source running the entire out side of the city.
In my industry we only use looped power sources for a few minimal things, but also have to be very careful of the possible dangers that can come from looped power, and risks of looping continuous conductive material. I honestly don't know a ton about this stuff, just what we have to worry about at work, so if someone could explain to me how its totally safe I'd appreciate it. I hate to say it, but with out knowing anything about what he's doing, I'm not sure we should all just jump on board.

Creating a ring of conductive materials makes an antenna. It is by far one of the most useful and simple electric phenomenon. If an antenna isn't controlled it can start to conduct, mostly not hazardous but to electronics and radio waves, but in the wrong circumstance (high electrostatic that is often present in dry climate, and during lighting storms) it can be deadly. Even if the antenna is grounded at each end, it can still carry voltage along its path to the ground, if anything connects with the antenna along that path it can get fried. If not lethal it may just cause that uncomfortable, hair standing up, feeling.

Also, creating a continuous horizontal ring, Omnidirectional Antenna, can really mess up electronics and radio waves that pass by it, if the antenna isn't tuned properly. I'm a little worried that while all the emergency personnel sit inside this huge antenna it ends up jamming their radios and communication is lost. I also don't know how one would tune a possible antenna that's never been built before and that may not be constant considering its a test of a new energy (I'm sure their are people that do know how).

My last concern is with magnetic fields. We install looped wires, run very low levels of power through them and create magnetic fields that are sensitive to metals a meter away. The rings cut into roads at stop lights, electric gates, and even on the high way are pretty basic magnets used as metal detectors but aren't strong enough to present a noticeable force. I know that when a metal object drives over one of these rings, it changes the magnetic fields with in the wring, tripping a sensor at the control box. We've never installed one, but there are systems that are so touchy that even a human bodies nervous system trips the sensor. I'm concerned what will happen to all the metal on the playa if we create a huge magnetic ring?

I'd love to have power on the playa. I'd love for Burning Man to be a place were a new alternate power source is further developed. I just think there are some possible problems.

Plus they're German, for all we know their trying to invade! (just kidding)


egad!! gadzooks!!

when they turn it on, the whole place could fall into a worm hole.......and, who would I rather travel time with? Burners, of course.........

so, the problem is?......

unless, they turn it on and it ends up looking like Jonestown........I suppose.......but, who would I rather die with? Burners, of course?


so, the problem is?


When they turn it on, it might jam all the radios and cell phones and such, and force people to talk directly, or play music themselves.........
and, who would I rather talk to, and listen to? Burners, of course.


and, so, the problem is?.......

just sayin'......



oh yeah and, (in red above), don't worry, we're not french, it's ok.......
YGMIR

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Postby illy dilly » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:17 am

Sounds good to me!
Time travel with Burner huh? What would happen to the 40's?
Sounds like a possible theme camp idea.
Why don't ya stick your head in that hole and find out? ~piehole
Plan for the worst, expect the best. Make the most out of it under any conditions. If you cannot do that you will never enjoy yourself. ~CrispyDave
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