THEME CAMP BAR"S DRUGING BUNERS WITH G.B.H.

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:31 am

Oh, Sas, Sas, Sas...
As a member of the Bureau of Erotic Discourse I've been following this thread with a good deal of trepidation. I haven't waded in and said why I think informing the Rangers would have been a good idea, because I wanted to be sure of what might have happened if they had been involved. I've even wondered if I should try to find Black Swan or Dirtwitch to ask them what they might have done. I can certainly understand why you're angry, but at this point I think the discussion needs light more than heat.
Based on my experiences the advantages of bringing the BR Rangers in would have included the following:
    The option of coming down in a calm space with experienced and knowledgeable persons supervising.
    The addition of this camp and this bartender to rangers' radar, reducing the chances of there being further attempts.
    Possible expulsion from the event. That might well depend on someone's filing a complaint, and since WHEELCHAIR's friend did not remember the event it might be difficult finding someone who was eligible to file one.
    Prevention of WHEELCHAIR's being convicted of a violent felony.

      I do think this is a nasty piece of business, and I would like to stop the asshole doing it, as well as discourage other assholes from trying the same. I don't know what the best approach is. I do think not including the rangers is depriving yourself of a weapon in a nasty fight.
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Postby POWERCHAIR » Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:51 am

.....
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Postby Fire_Moose » Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:58 am

In other words. "We will take care of it ourselves and then bitch about it on the internet"
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Postby justfred » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:37 am

POWERCHAIR wrote:PS: Please excuse my spelling, I have certain aphasia (brain damage) caused by physical injury 30 years ago in the marine core.


I would think you would still be able to spell C-O-R-P-S.

POWERCHAIR wrote:...blah blah blah all sorts of Ranger love...


Thanks, we think you're great too!
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Postby Twilight » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:03 am

POWERCHAIR wrote:
Sas
My reason for not contacting the rangers: I did not want them to use your radios because the perpetrators could be monitoring your insecure radio frequencies and may have already (resulting in successful evasion). A high percentage of the new rangers are there just to receive their pleaded skirt and roam the city and party all week. Also, you guys are pretty ineffectual at dealing with relationships between people. There were three earlier attempts in the week to have rangers show up at our camp and other locations, but they were no-shows.
We did report the incident to the bm-org, medical, and The Sheriff. The rangers were informed @ CC Monday morning, but we had a no-show of any rangers. We were informed that you had been trying to catch the culprit (description matches various incidents), which the rangers failed to carry out any justice.
Depriving justice?
We approached the Sheriff, went to medical (better than justice) and had members of our camp track down the bar.
My experience with the rangers is like that in this thread: it takes three days for them to respond (hopefully you can drive out to the playa and catch them by then :P).

Do you believe the Rangers are an effective at locating people or are they doing a Good job [not]?
Also, "We don't discuss, much less "blather" specifics of our calls on the radio." ~ Not true, and your claim is unfounded. I advise you go through the logs (if any) to actually see what sort of info is given.
Also, "Way to deprive your friend of justice"~ justice is illusive, but your accusation is false as mentioned we id go through avenues of justice and relief for our friend :|.
Also, "Plus, we can actually spell and properly use their, there, and they're : )." from sentence usage, it is easy to decipher their various uses if you know a wee bit of English Syntax --- A null point to your orthography nazi smirk :P.

Lastly, I don't need to be trolled by some Ranger Sasquatch, who offers no useful advice and represents a group of volunteers not trained in criminal justice or versed in etiquette with people who have been victimized/drugged i.e. no medical training, no training on how to deal with potential rapes, but plenty experience breaking up drunks fighting.



There is so much horribly inaccurate with this post it's difficult to find a place to begin. I'll address this from my own perspective; I speak in no official capacity.

Powerchair, if you really want to learn about what Rangers contribute to the event, I strongly suggest taking some time to find out. You can ask any of us, or you can ask countless participants who have interacted with Rangers. After seven years on the playa, it's a real surprise that you know so little about the functions and activities of Rangers.

First, we are all event participants who volunteer our time and skills to make a positive contribution to the experience of all participants. We are not the law.

All Rangers are trained annually, and all Rangers are trained in conflict resolution. Some Rangers have extensive professional training in victimization scenarios, medical training, clinical counseling, and legal procedure. As we are often the first people on scene, we work extensively with emergency medical personnel, law enforcement, and a variety of other support teams. Among us, we can speak over 20 languages. And we have a dedicated group that deals specifically with psychological and drug-related issues.

We give up substantial time during our Burn to be on duty, sober, and ready to deal with whatever needs arise, from giving directions and support to dealing with the most difficult situations that can arise in a city of 40,000+ people. Our dispatch system can place us in any part of the city within minutes, and once contacted, we follow issues through resolution. We've successfully resolved countless conflicts among event participants.

We're trained in our radio protocols, and if there's a serious issue, we rarely discuss specifics on the air. We know our transmissions are monitored and logged by others. We do not operate to secure intelligence agency standards; this is Burning Man, and we are volunteers. We do not "carry out justice"--in the legal context, we work closely with the various law enforcement agencies, who have the authority to do so.

We make a positive difference every day we're on duty, before, during, or after the event. We don't just do a good job, we do an outstanding job. Perhaps that's why everywhere we go, we receive unsolicited gratitude from the countless participants who know what we do and truly appreciate it.

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PS Rangers aren't given pleated skirts--we get a hat and shirts when we pass our training and evaluations.
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Really?

Postby isiseyes » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:40 am

There were three earlier attempts in the week to have rangers show up at our camp and other locations, but they were no-shows.


1. Are we talking about the same rangers? Many people don't realize there are the BRC Rangers, and the federal BLM Rangers. Asking the feds to send the BRC Rangers somewhere may or may not work out, depending on the situation and the BLM folks being asked... but they'll usually tell you to come to our outposts and find us (either way it's better to talk to us directly).

2. What method was used to get the rangers to your camp? I can't recall a single time I've been on shift where someone requested our help and we didn't show up. If the person sent to find us really got through and no one came (especially if it happened three times), then there's a major breakdown in communication that we're not aware of and it needs to be addressed ASAP so it doesn't happen again.

Do you believe the Rangers are an effective at locating people or are they doing a Good job [not]?


Yes, I do... but that may just be because I've been on the call where we found a sexual predator within two hours of his attack. In a city of 50,000 with nothing to go on but a basic description and no stand-out costuming (just t shirt and pants), I'd say we are capable of finding people when we need to.

Also, "We don't discuss, much less "blather" specifics of our calls on the radio." ~ Not true, and your claim is unfounded. I advise you go through the logs (if any) to actually see what sort of info is given.


See, it's the "if any" part that proves that you're making a lot of assumptions here. Not only do we have extremely detailed logs, but we also have a specific person whose job is archiving them and keeping them in order so they're easier to deal with in situations where information is needed fast. Also, anyone who has done a single ranger shift can tell you how little we are allowed to say over the radio, especially in situations like your friend's... it can actually be kind of frustrating when you really want a swift resolution, but we're very careful to request a face-to-face discussion with the dispatcher so that they can get the help that is needed right away without giving away personal info across the radio.

Lastly, I don't need to be trolled by some Ranger Sasquatch, who offers no useful advice and represents a group of volunteers not trained in criminal justice or versed in etiquette with people who have been victimized/drugged i.e. no medical training, no training on how to deal with potential rapes, but plenty experience breaking up drunks fighting.


I don't personally know if Sasquatch has taken the training (I want to say he has but I'm not 100% sure and don't want to offer inaccurate info here), but we actually have a specific department within the rangers that is trained to deal with exactly what you're talking about here. We even have a special set of structures in the back of HQ to handle these cases, where it is quiet and people can take a break from the event while they process what they've been through. There is also a group that works the event that are all trained and certified therapists and psychiatrists, not to mention the group of lawyers that volunteer with yet another section of the BRC Rangers.

I'm sorry if you have had a bad or disappointing experience with the BRC Rangers at some point in your burn experience... but we really are here to help if someone needs/wants it. The best way to find us is to go directly to one of the three outposts, situated at Center Camp, 9 O'Clock Keyhole, and 3 O'Clock Keyhole (we're generally right next to the medical tent with the big red cross on it). There is always someone there who can get rangers to where they need to be, and short of something really huge happening along the way, they will get there quickly.
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Postby Artemis » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:52 pm

justfred wrote:
POWERCHAIR wrote:PS: Please excuse my spelling, I have certain aphasia (brain damage) caused by physical injury 30 years ago in the marine core.


I would think you would still be able to spell C-O-R-P-S.

POWERCHAIR wrote:...blah blah blah all sorts of Ranger love...


Thanks, we think you're great too!


PHUCK AWF or fuck off, or whatever. You knew what he meant. The dude has explained that his spelling and grammar is due to brain damage WHILE SERVING OUR COUNTRY and you make fun of that?

You're pissed that he has criticized the rangers, fine. Your second comment makes sense but why you have to continue to rub it in this his spelling sucks makes no sense. Not sure if you're a ranger, but if you are (which your post implies), making fun of his spelling seems like a really stupid way to counter his criticisms of the rangers. I'm glad to see the other rangers' replies because I was seriously questioning whether I would ever turn to them for help if they were the type to criticize a wounded vet for spelling.
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Re: Really?

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:51 pm

isiseyes wrote:
Lastly, I don't need to be trolled by some Ranger Sasquatch, who offers no useful advice and represents a group of volunteers not trained in criminal justice or versed in etiquette with people who have been victimized/drugged i.e. no medical training, no training on how to deal with potential rapes, but plenty experience breaking up drunks fighting.


I don't personally know if Sasquatch has taken the training (I want to say he has but I'm not 100% sure and don't want to offer inaccurate info here), but we actually have a specific department within the rangers that is trained to deal with exactly what you're talking about here.
Sas has been a ranger for a number of years; I first became aware of him in '04 or '05, and I believe that he knew my husband which could mean that they served together before 2002. He also has some sort of background in criminology. He's not some ranger-come-lately.
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Postby justfred » Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:02 pm

Artemis wrote:PHUCK AWF or fuck off, or whatever. You knew what he meant.


You're right, that was an obnoxious response. I just couldn't resist poking fun at such an obvious spelling error in a sentence defending spelling errors. I'd think that someone who has been a Marine (you're never an ex-) for over 30 years would be able to spell Corps? It is, after all, fairly core to the concept of the Marine Corps.
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Postby Artemis » Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:38 pm

justfred wrote:
Artemis wrote:PHUCK AWF or fuck off, or whatever. You knew what he meant.


You're right, that was an obnoxious response. I just couldn't resist poking fun at such an obvious spelling error in a sentence defending spelling errors. I'd think that someone who has been a Marine (you're never an ex-) for over 30 years would be able to spell Corps? It is, after all, fairly core to the concept of the Marine Corps.


Yeah, I must admit the irony did make me giggle a bit too, guiltily. But I think that it's a sign of how fucking fucked up aphasia is. Even stuff that is central to his being (like the corps) eludes him when it comes to spelling.

It's a sobering reminder for me not to judge people from one attribute. It's a weakness that I have of thinking that poor grammar or spelling indicates lack of intelligence and that's SOOOO wrong.

I am continuously amazed by the people I meet through Burning Man. So many people have suffered so many difficulties in their life, but do they mope about it and let their life end? No, so many continue to go out and reach for dreams, and holy crap! They're out there helping others and doing cool stuff for people, like PowerChair is doing. It's phenomenally inspiring.
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Postby dr.placebo » Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:12 pm

POWERCHAIR wrote:My reason for not contacting the rangers: I did not want them to use your radios because the perpetrators could be monitoring your insecure radio frequencies and may have already (resulting in successful evasion). A high percentage of the new rangers are there just to receive their pleaded skirt and roam the city and party all week. Also, you guys are pretty ineffectual at dealing with relationships between people. There were three earlier attempts in the week to have rangers show up at our camp and other locations, but they were no-shows.


I'm not a BRC Ranger, but I have been on the playa for 11 years, and I've had more than a few opportunities to see the Rangers at work. The Rangers are only human, but your description of them is so far removed from my experience that it calls into question (for me) some of the other details.

I think that dosing is evil, which is why I think that contacting the BRC Rangers should have the highest priority after making sure about the welfare of the victim. Catching the perp and breaking the chain should be critically important. Railing against the most effective means for alerting the city (and the LEOs) is not helpful.
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Postby POWERCHAIR » Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:34 pm

..........
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Postby Twilight » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:19 pm

POWERCHAIR wrote:
WE did contact the BRC Rangers HQ in Center Camp and got or 4th BRC Ranger no show! :(

And yes there or some very good Rangers at BRC,
We had a BRC Ranger at or camp using or chill space doing a training of NEW BRC Rangers for this years event!
And one of or camp mates is a psychiatrists,
Now we can bitch back and forth or get back to the point of this POST.


I'm a little unclear about this. BRC Ranger HQ was not in Center Camp. It was on Esplanade next to DMV, with additional outposts at 3:00 and 9:00. HQ is staffed continuously by Rangers throughout the event, just as the city is patrolled by Rangers 24x7, and the office is open 0600-Midnight daily, so it would be impossible to get a Ranger no-show if you showed up at HQ and reported the event to a Ranger. Any reports of this nature ARE logged meticulously, and by our own protocols, this is an immediately reportable activity.

Powerchair, nobody condones what happened to your friend. Rangers in particular would do their utmost to prevent anything like that from happening again, and as you read in an earlier post, we've got a history of being able to track people down fast.

Peripheral to the point, you made some damaging assertions against the Ranger community that were simply untrue. Don't expect that to ever go unchallenged. Rangers have a history of being very, very good at helping in circumstances like this. In my own experience, it would be utterly unthinkable and beyond wildly improbable for Rangers to ever ignore or disregard a situation such as this. Even as this post has gone up, you can bet that there are those already quietly discussing the facts of the matter.

Please be mindful that the BRC Ranger force does everything it can to help, particularly with something as serious as a drugging. As also stated earlier, by not contacting BRC Rangers immediately, other participants could have been put at serious risk of the same evil.

I hope that you'll take some time before or during next year's event to talk with Rangers and learn more about what we do and why we do it. Those discussions could make a positive difference to yourself and others.

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Postby isiseyes » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:33 pm

WE did contact the BRC Rangers HQ in Center Camp and got or 4th BRC Ranger no show! :(


Just to clarify... did you go to HQ for all four (I thought you said it was three earlier?) times no rangers came to help? If so, there's a log and we can figure this out. If not, how did you contact them the other times?

We had a BRC Ranger at or camp using or chill space doing a training of NEW BRC Rangers for this years event!


I am very confused by this one, because our new ranger trainings are generally done at the Ranger outposts Berlin and Tokyo (3 o'clock and 9 o'clock). What was the ranger's name who was doing training in your shade structure??

Now we can bitch back and forth or get back to the point of this POST.


From what I have gathered, the point in this post is that someone dosed your friend while visiting a bar. While this really sucks, I'm not sure what can be done about it at this point because we don't know what he looks like, where he was camped, who else he might have dosed, etc. It's really, really difficult to solve these things once everyone leaves the playa.

The other point seems to have been that the BRC Rangers did not help you, and that is something we *can* do something about off playa. If there was a breakdown in the way our system works, it's really important to clarify where, when and how it happened so that the same thing doesn't happen to someone else. Since I am not personally aware of any situations where Rangers didn't show up when requested and you're telling us that it happened three or four times for you, it's really important to get info from you regarding what exactly happened.

I sincerely hope your friend was able to enjoy the rest of the burn, as well as yourself. It's not fun that she was dosed, but thank whatever gods might be floating around that something worse did not happen after that!
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Postby jkisha » Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:10 pm

isiseyes wrote:
We had a BRC Ranger at or camp using or chill space doing a training of NEW BRC Rangers for this years event!


I am very confused by this one, because our new ranger trainings are generally done at the Ranger outposts Berlin and Tokyo (3 o'clock and 9 o'clock). What was the ranger's name who was doing training in your shade structure??



I'm sure that this refers to the so called 'mentoring' where new 'alpha' rangers are paired up with a more experienced ranger and they go out on the playa together.

It has been my experience that some ranger 'mentors' look for chill spaces to kill time rather than actually do any mentoring or spend any time actually doing any walking in the heat or doing any training of the new alphas during their three hour shift 'mentor' shift.

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Postby POWERCHAIR » Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:33 pm

..........
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Postby isiseyes » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:10 pm

It was very hot out and he was mentoring and training some new dust free rangers, Before heading out for more training in the dusty city.


Ah, you mean the first shift freshly trained Rangers go on, where their mentors watch them and decide whether or not they would make good Rangers? That's not actually training, but I can see where the mix-up would happen.

As odd as it seems, sometimes the best place to be while rangering is in a camp's shade structure talking with folks... especially if you're visible from the road. That way you get to know/connect with people (which is essentially what being a ranger is all about) and are also easy to see if anyone passing by needs help.

Thank you for clarifying that point, I was really confused. And knowing is half the battle, right? :)
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Postby TomServo » Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:02 am

GBH and alcohol don't mix. That was fucked up! Had a girl at our camp, we thought was dead. Same mixture and her boyfriend knew. If I wasn't so busy trying to get her a medic I would have beat the fucker. Nevadas not the best place for drugs...
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:55 am

fuck all the semantics everyone....


lets not blame the rangers, lets not blame the victim.


instead, what do we know....evidently a renegade group of asswipes, possibly of european origin, went from camp to camp posing as "guest bartenders" and also, again i have no physical proof, but an educated guess corroborated by different sources. they gave a gbh mixture to unsuspecting and unwilling guests of said bars.

this is not acceptable....in black rock, or in defaultia.

hopefully, someone will remember a name or a face or perhaps a photo or video will surface to give more clues.


keep your eyes open, and in the future, be aware that the 1% that prey on the other 98% are always going to be there.


we need to police our own and that starts at home, in your own camp.

dont let this happen.....dont allow a "kitty genovese" (google it, youngin's)
to occur on your watch.

dont let happen to others what you yourself would not want to happen to you.

and help Powerchair find these bastards, or at least let him know that in the future, if it is under your power to do so, this will not happen again.

it is our city, lets keep it clean....physically, and spiritually...

what if it was your sister, your mom, your niece, your daughter.

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ever mindful of others needs.

ever caring that we not harm others or allow others to be harmed.

it takes a village to raise a child, but it takes a METROPOLIS to burn a man...

we are all in this together, we cannot afford to be rotted from the inside out.
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Postby Sage Venkman » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:21 am

Burners have varied levels of experience deaing with bad drug experiences, but even that doesn't mean much if you yourself aren't in good condition. The Rangers have an ethic that "all rangers must share the same reality" by staying sober on duty, so if you and your friend are sharing radically different and slightly askew realities, then a Ranger could be your best friend to avoid becoming the survivally challenged.

The Rangers should also be involved so that they can share the reality about what the person dosing others was all about. Remember, people dose for different motivations. Its not always date rape, some just still believe the old Timothy Leary crap philosophy of "turning people on" and other altrusitic, but deluded, motivations. Those folk are just as dangerous, because they create more chaos, faster, and in a more random distribution.

The community needs to deal with those people, and the rangers have more options than anyone else to do that. They have options from just talking to people, to exiting someone from the event, all the way up to calling the LEO's. You have less options, and law enforcement is a blunt instrument.

I think the original poster had the right first motivation, taking charge to make sure his friend was okay, but after that was maybe where he needs to open his mind. USMC folk are sometimes too self-reliant, they try to improvise and adapt and overcome when they should just reach out for help. I've had a few marine buddies crash and burn at Burning Man because their first attitude was "I'm tougher than this" and their last attitude was "I can't admit I'm not as tough as this and need help."
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Postby The Chinese » Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:32 am

Simon: Simply put, that is the Nail on the head. /Thread.

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Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:59 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:keep your eyes open, and in the future, be aware that the 1% that prey on the other 98% are always going to be there.
Aw, you forgot the 1% who will feast on the remains.




;>/
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:50 pm

sure....blame the sheep-dogs for having long hair that covers their eyes.


we can still hear, you know....
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Postby Sage Venkman » Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:50 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
Simon of the Playa wrote:keep your eyes open, and in the future, be aware that the 1% that prey on the other 98% are always going to be there.
Aw, you forgot the 1% who will feast on the remains.

Don't forget the 2% who take the remains, apply a hot glue gun, and a sparkles, and call it playa wear.
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Postby ygmir » Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:28 am

Sage Venkman wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
Simon of the Playa wrote:keep your eyes open, and in the future, be aware that the 1% that prey on the other 98% are always going to be there.
Aw, you forgot the 1% who will feast on the remains.

Don't forget the 2% who take the remains, apply a hot glue gun, and a sparkles, and call it playa wear.


as seen at "Camp Gein"........
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Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:55 am

ygmir wrote:
Sage Venkman wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
Simon of the Playa wrote:keep your eyes open, and in the future, be aware that the 1% that prey on the other 98% are always going to be there.
Aw, you forgot the 1% who will feast on the remains.

Don't forget the 2% who take the remains, apply a hot glue gun, and a sparkles, and call it playa wear.


as seen at "Camp Gein"........


Okay, nothing against Eddy here, but we're up to 102%. Or is this related to the false numbers that rumor has it are given to BLM every day at noon?
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Postby ygmir » Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:53 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
ygmir wrote:
Sage Venkman wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
Simon of the Playa wrote:keep your eyes open, and in the future, be aware that the 1% that prey on the other 98% are always going to be there.
Aw, you forgot the 1% who will feast on the remains.

Don't forget the 2% who take the remains, apply a hot glue gun, and a sparkles, and call it playa wear.


as seen at "Camp Gein"........


Okay, nothing against Eddy here, but we're up to 102%. Or is this related to the false numbers that rumor has it are given to BLM every day at noon?


well, I didn't add to the numbers........

and, at 102%, perhaps, it's something from Congress OMB or GAO?.......
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Postby POWERCHAIR » Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:19 pm

.....
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Oh not again ) ':

Postby K1tten » Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:47 am

Oh my Love, you've got me all teary eyed. I've heard so many of these stories this year on the Playa. I know Burning Man tends to get out of hand sometimes and it's to be expected in a crowd this big but seriously; people need to take care of each other not try to drug them. With the amount of people out of their minds, drunk and high, (not to mention extremely dehydrated) the ones who are sane and in good health need to watch out for the ones who aren't (yes, I’m aware BM is about becoming independent, self reliant people but when someone honestly can't take care of themselves at that moment, for whatever reason, someone needs to help them. That's what being human is about, taking care of our own and helping those who can't help themselves (thank you to whoever helped the boy in my camp, I'm sorry I never got your name). We had an incident like this one in my camp. Someone got extremely messed up at a party and they didn't wake up. Thinking about it makes me wish I’d never gone to BRC this year, it makes me afraid to go back to my home. I know I will though, things will be better next year, I’m sure of it.
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Re: Oh not again ) ':

Postby POWERCHAIR » Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:02 pm

........
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