Generator Security

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Generator Security

Postby gyre » Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:50 pm

I'm using a generator on the back porch and trying to lock it securely.
The steps are wooden, so I am planning to lock to the foundation of the house.
Locally available hardened lifting chain is around $7-$10 a foot and Abus security chain is $10 a foot in half inch and $15 a foot in 9/16".
The Abus is plated and square cut, and I suspect, more cut resistant.
Boron alloy, german, etc.
So I am leaning towards the Abus, since the current prices are so close.

The length needed is taking an alarming turn though.
Any genius ideas on secure ways to do this?
I thought perhaps an X-frame too large to carry?
That works when you can't get through doors.

I may use a lesser chain once under the house.


Any experiences with foiled theft attempts?
Any ideas?
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Postby Captain Goddammit » Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:49 pm

I'm thinking that your idea of simply attaching it to something too big to carry is a good one. Can you dig a hole and set a piece of pipe in some cement as an anchor point?
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Postby dragonfly Jafe » Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:11 am

chain a big dog to it
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Postby dragonpilot » Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:54 pm

Remove the fuel tank, spark plug(s), head gasket, cylinder(s), drive belts, throttle/choke assembly, carburetor...that should discourage anyone from wanting to walk off with it...unless they have all that stuff at their camp.
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Postby gyre » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:14 pm

I may place my own anchor, but trying to find an easier way.
There is a type of security anchor that can be locked in place, but I can't find it.
I did find lot's of cool stuff for bikes though.
This anchor is supposed to have a cap on it to prevent removal.
Any ideas?

I may borrow a piece of I-beam to chain to.

The local chain is Grade 7 and 8 lifting chain, pretty tough.
A decent choice if someone needs to lock stuff up.
I'm having trouble comparing the two types I'm looking at.

I may run an eyebolt through the foundation wall closer to the porch.

I can't dismantle the generator, as the idea is to keep it running, when needed.

The Abus and grade 8 are available down to 1/4 inch.
I wonder how small a chain will stand bolt cutters?
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Postby SilverOrange » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:56 pm

I used to lock my cycle up with 3/8'' case hardened chain. After losing the key, we tried to cut it with a pair of 48" bolt cutters. We ended up using a torch.
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Postby Oldguy » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:03 pm

Your discussion got me thinking about chaining up my old Monkey-Wards gennie. Luckily, the carrying handle is part of the casing surrounding the windings. I have a ready made locking point to attach to my trailerframe.
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Postby gyre » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:13 pm

SilverOrange wrote:I used to lock my cycle up with 3/8'' case hardened chain. After losing the key, we tried to cut it with a pair of 48" bolt cutters. We ended up using a torch.

That's the effectiveness level I'm looking for.
Did the boltcutter blades chip, or was it just too hard to bite?
That's the theory of the square chain- full face contact.

My friend points out that enough diameter also reduces leverage and can be impossible to cut in any grade.
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Postby gyre » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:17 pm

Oldguy wrote:Your discussion got me thinking about chaining up my old Monkey-Wards gennie. Luckily, the carrying handle is part of the casing surrounding the windings. I have a ready made locking point to attach to my trailerframe.

I hope every generator on the playa is chained up well.

Don't forget a CO detector.
I have one that detects leaking propane too from kidde with levels.
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Postby SilverOrange » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:24 pm

gyre wrote:
SilverOrange wrote:I used to lock my cycle up with 3/8'' case hardened chain. After losing the key, we tried to cut it with a pair of 48" bolt cutters. We ended up using a torch.

That's the effectiveness level I'm looking for.
Did the boltcutter blades chip, or was it just too hard to bite?
That's the theory of the square chain- full face contact.

My friend points out that enough diameter also reduces leverage and can be impossible to cut in any grade.


It didn't damage the bolt cutters, but we could only manage to put little indentations on the chain, there was no way we were cutting through it with the bolt cutters. I would say that and a good lock will keep any opportunist from taking it. The lock will probably be the weak point. With any idiot with a file being able to make bump keys or buy padlock shims on the net, padlocks (and house locks) have been rendered pretty obsolete.
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Postby gyre » Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:02 am

I don't think that's as easy as they make it look.
But the crackheads here probably aren't willing to take the time anyway.

Image
I've been using the 6327.
I've had doors ripped off, but they haven't defeated this lock yet.
I may move up to something better, like the Abus, but the 6327 and 6325 is a lot for little money.
One of those two will fit most trailers and containers.
There are some locks made just for chain though.
Image


Some stuff of bumpstop attempts
http://www.bumpstopsecurity.com/
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:29 am

If I have extra barbarians, we may be able to hire them out.






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Postby mdmf007 » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:29 am

you could always hide the genny set in your tent?
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Postby oneeyeddick » Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:12 pm

I think he is talking about his house, Boogie eewgie.
We have an obligation to make space for everyone, we have no obligation to make that space pleasant.
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Postby mdmf007 » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:25 pm

oneeyeddick wrote:I think he is talking about his house, Boogie eewgie.


hide it in the closet then
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Postby gyre » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:53 pm

There are safety issues with running one in your tent or house.
The one I'm using now is too heavy to move easily without help.


I have a sample of 3/8" lifting chain.
Crosby Spectrum 8 Alloy chain- Grade 8, heat treated, good for lifting 7000 pounds.

Today my friend Dave cut it with 24" chinese bolt cutters.
He worked around it in a circle because it is a cut link, so a complete chain would not be as vulnerable.
It didn't snap until he had cut through a considerable amount of the diameter.
Still, Holy crap!
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Postby SilverOrange » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:55 am

Gyre, I wish I could remember where I got that chain from, but it was a few years ago. I remember that I had to order it by length because they didn't want to cut it for me. It required cutting with a torch or grinder. I know I couldn't find it at the big box stores, and maybe that's why. Unfortunatly there's a lot of variables in heat treating like what the base metal and carbon content is and the method of heat treating. I'm no metallurgist but I believe case hardening could be a different process than heat treating is.
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Postby gyre » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:39 pm

True, there are many variables.
And a dedicated security chain can be geared to that alone.

I didn't mean to imply that the lifting chain is inferior.
It is very good for the price.
I doubt most people could cut the 3/8" with 3 foot bolt cutters.
They don't try to cut it by hand.
They use a large hydraulic cutter.

At Abus, they use a cutting wheel.

I ordered a length of 1/2" Abus today.
We will be using an eyebolt in the foundation at one end and anchor it to the foundation at the other end.
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Postby mdmf007 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:24 pm

gyre wrote:There are safety issues with running one in your tent or house.
The one I'm using now is too heavy to move easily without help.


Geez Gyre - you know that was sarcasm. But your right, dont run IC engines inside your house folks. Good way to not wake up in the morning.
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Postby penguin » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:02 pm

mdmf007 wrote:
gyre wrote:There are safety issues with running one in your tent or house.
The one I'm using now is too heavy to move easily without help.


Geez Gyre - you know that was sarcasm. But your right, dont run IC engines inside your house folks. Good way to not wake up in the morning.


I wouldn't suggest running an EC one inside either :P

But, back to the original question -- you say the steps are wooden -- is the porch wooden, or something else? I always like the idea of making something too big or too heavy to move rather than trying to tie it down -- locks can be picked, chains can be cut -- but tack weld it to a couple of hundred pounds of plate steel... :wink:
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Postby oneeyeddick » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:23 pm

get a piece of of shit junk free car from craigslist

park it next to your back porch

weld the generator into the trunk of the car

problem solved !!!
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Postby gyre » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:30 am

Since it's on loan, I can't weld it to anything.
But I have always liked the idea of adding weight too.
I've designed some alarm cases that have space to add ballast in the base.

I think attaching to the house itself will be rugged enough.
We considered using an engine block or a concrete anchor.
A buried car rim is an effective temporary approach.

But I like the idea of locking to a base plate, as is used with motorcycles at times.
There is an I-beam I can borrow.
Only 150 pounds, but very intimidating.
Maybe I can use that as a base plate?
I think it would be redundant though.
I don't think any hand operated bolt cutters can cut this chain I ordered.
I am getting some samples for testing though.
It is half inch thick in the thinnest sections and square spaped.
So that leaves cutting wheels and cutting torches to worry about.

The chain will weigh 38 pounds without locks and the generator weighs +100 pounds.
There is no easy way to get a vehicle near to pull anchors loose, a common attack on storage and trailers.

Maybe I'll hang my qualification target on the back door?
Most thieves here know it is unwise to confront me.
Nothing is foolproof though.
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Postby Captain Goddammit » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:53 am

Maybe just put a big "Made In China" decal on it?
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Postby gyre » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:39 am

It is chinese.
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Postby gyre » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:40 am

This generator will fit inside the I-beam, so we may mount it to it with a lock.
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:02 am

If they use high explosives to cut through your chain, it doesn't matter what it's made of.

Watch your back. The playa is thick with thieves whose only interest is in stealing your delicious generator. :?
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Postby SilverOrange » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:18 am

Hey gyre, what about just pouring a small concrete slab with an eyebolt set into it? Just padlock the chain to the eyebolt.
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Postby gyre » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:43 pm

SilverOrange wrote:Hey gyre, what about just pouring a small concrete slab with an eyebolt set into it? Just padlock the chain to the eyebolt.

I thought about using an anchor, but locking to the foundation seems easier and more secure.
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Postby gyre » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:47 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:If they use high explosives to cut through your chain, it doesn't matter what it's made of.

Watch your back. The playa is thick with thieves whose only interest is in stealing your delicious generator. :?

The playa seems much safer, though generators are particularly attractive out there.
I think they should still be locked on the playa, especially the smaller they are.

The one we were using wasn't locked, but it weighed close to a ton.
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Postby gyre » Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:23 am

Captain Goddammit wrote:Maybe just put a big "Made In China" decal on it?

The All-Power America generator is made by Jiangsu Jiangdong Group Co. Ltd
I think the sticker on top says it is made in Guangdong.
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