case studies

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Postby DangerMouse » Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:03 pm

angrykittie25 wrote:DangerMouse, I was refering to Kelly when I said personal attack.



I know Angry. :roll: I was simply saying I didn't think Kelly's outburst was a bannable offense, nor did I want them to be banned for such.
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Postby III » Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:03 pm

update on http://eplaya.burningman.com/viewtopic.php?p=42662#42662

even though new hampshire is in a different circuit than ca, they both have similiar laws regarding conversations and consent to recording. recent occurances may cause this case study to go from being something distasteful, but legal, to an active crime, and therefore quite distinctly against the t.o.s.

http://www.securityfocus.com/printable/columnists/233
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Time start trimming

Postby technopatra » Sat Apr 17, 2004 1:19 pm

Ok, let me explain one more time what this thread is for -

III created it to be a community space to talk about admin actions, to study them and figure out ways of improving both admin and community response to issues.

And I crush him hard for that, as this forum has been, and still is, a tremendous resource for me. I refer to it everytime I am considering an admin action, and frequently when I see situations that might get out of hand.

This has also been a very solid forum folksbeing able to provide their opinons, suggestions, issues, and preferences, and actually be heard, both by the concerned community (those who particiapte here) and by me.

While this is still a community space, it has a very specific set of goals and uses. This is to be a historical record of our actions and ruminations, and the personal comments and digs have no place here.

To that end. I will start trimming the noise from here - not anyone's opinion about a topic at hand, but anything off-topic that does not lend itself to the issues being discussed.
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Re: Time start trimming

Postby Panther » Sat Apr 17, 2004 3:05 pm

technopatra wrote:Ok, let me explain one more time what this thread is for -


Technopatra, you are obviously the driver here. And you're going to drive this thread around to wherever you see fit to take it, in your own unilateral way. Go for it. All groupies, get on the bus! Technopatra is the driver. Have fun!

But I want to tell this, quickly. Given that this is a computer system, I imagine there's an UNDO somewhere, somehow. A word of advice: With the greatest haste and urgency, I would advise you to call whomever you need to help you UNDO YOUR DELETION OF MUTLIPLE POSTS and fix this mistake before it becomes hopelessly irreversable!

What you have done- trimming people's posts, is tragic! No one can trust to post a message if they can't absolutely second-guess whether it is going to be deleted or not! These posts weren't as off-topic as you thought- in your own egocentric way. We were pulling the thread back on topic! Mine was the last post before your "trimming". The last line of my last post read- "Now back to Case Studies"!!!

Honestly, you should try an UNDO if at all possible. And then I'll show you why there was something in those posts that was actually very valuable to e-playa and community building.

If not, I plan to re-post my reply to Don Muerto. Mine is a reply to his post- It's well written, and it should be fair to me to post a reply. Tell me now, are you going to delete my post again?!


Panther :)
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Postby Ivy » Sat Apr 17, 2004 8:53 pm

>>The last line of my last post read- "Now back to Case Studies"!!!

Which reinforces the fact that the rest of the post *wasn't* about casee studies.

IMO, if it is posted again, it should be deleted again.

If it is made clear that posts will be trimmed and/or deleted, and you choose to post anyway, then you accept that risk or don't post. Your choice. It seems perfectly logical to me.
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Postby Lydia Love » Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:48 pm

And if you must share this post with us there is nothing stopping you from trying to find a more appropriate thread for it.
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Postby Lydia Love » Sun Apr 18, 2004 1:18 am

Chunking? Is that you?

So *there's* an interesting case study. A poster disregards the topic, the requests of other posters to keep on topic and reposts a gawdawful long (perhaps not as clever as the poster thought), off-topic post after it's been deleted.

I'd support deleting it again. It was, imo, pretty hostile to the thread to repost it.
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off-topic repeat offender case study

Postby technopatra » Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:07 pm

I agree, Lydia. I have deleted it again, and formally warned Panther that if he posts another off-topic message here, or re-posts anything I have deleted, I'll suspend his posting privileges.

Thank you everyone else for your understanding and support.
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Postby technopatra » Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:10 pm

p.s. I left his other post as I think it provides a very clear example of TOS & CG violations, therefore making it a great case study.
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Case study: Black Rock Ric

Postby technopatra » Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:43 am

As I have stated and restated to Black Rock Ric, the eplaya isprovided for the support of the Burning Man community. I had truly hopes that BRR would come around and start participating with this community in a positive way, but feel, with his last post, that it will never happen:

viewtopic.php?p=46599&highlight=#46599

I had already given him a warning based on a formal complaint, and tarried with him elsewhere on the eplaya. I have now deactivated his account.

I am sad about this because I truly believe his posts were a very misguided effort to make contact with people - such socialization is obviously absent for his life and he quite obviously needs more of it. However I do not think that anyone should have to put up with his constant denigration of the event and our lifestyles any longer. He was causing just way too much damage.

Especially as he falsely presented himself as a representative of the majority of Washoe County residents in his NIMBR (not in my Black Rock) attitude. The LLC has worked very hard to create positive relationships with the communities there over a number of years, and has been very successful. If that weren't the case, we wouldn't be able to hold the event there.

BTW - this makes a total of 4 account deactivations to-date - WSPR, stopbmorg, allanon03, and BRR.

Since the TOS and CG were implemented I have given out about 10 formal warnings to other users based on complaints from other eplayans - all for personal insults or commerce violations. Each of these users has accepted the feedback, changed their behavior, and basically been good citizens since then.

Comments welcome.
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Postby Alpha » Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:08 am

Good on ya, TP. I support reasonable discourse about the good and bad elements of Burning Man but this guy repeatedly went too far to bad-mouth the event. If he hates it so much, why spend so much time on eplaya? Hopefully he can make some friends on a message board that is more in line with his interests.
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Postby calsur » Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:27 am

TP,

So does this mean the peepee whack I got from you for calling BBR a name come off my record?
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Postby stuart » Tue Apr 27, 2004 4:36 pm

once again I applaud your decision. Though I had fun pointing out his inconsistencies. The lefty in me wishes there was a better way. The eplaya consumer in me is glad for the result.
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BRR - the soap opera continues...

Postby technopatra » Thu Apr 29, 2004 3:07 am

So as BRR/Reverend Jones keeps posting his TOS-violating garbage, I'm planning on keeping following the rules and deactivating his latest account. I admit that part of me is just curious to see how much energy he has and how many email accounts he is willing to make just to do this. (2 and counting for himself, 6 so far for his whole stopbmorg crew).

On the other hand, I don't think we could possibly, even as a group, make him look any more the fool than he has himself. So there is merit to just letting his verbal plumber's crack keep showing it's...uh...face.

(No offense to plumber's cracks.)

I do know for a fact that he will have less opportunity to post if we keep deleting, because of the time it takes to set up a new account.

It's no skin off my nose to deactivate him over and over, but the fascism and technopatra-as-enemy-of-the-first-amendment cracks have me laughing chocolate milk through the same nose. But perhaps keeping a violator around because I think he's funny and he makes me feel good about my work here is not appropriate admin behavior.

Beyond the plonk button - and it's coming, I swear - what would you guys rather me do about him and other persistent trolls? Does it more adversely affect your experience if we keep deleting and having him come back, or if we keep letting him post?

Tell me what you'd like to see happen.
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Postby angrykittie25 » Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:45 am

I personally have learned to ignore him and people like him. So either way it doesn't really effect me. Although deleting his account and then him comming back with that rather funny post was amusing. Because I have nothing better to do I would keep deleting him and watch him make himself look like an ass, but that's just me. I am sure you have better things to do with your time and its your call. I have yet to see you make an admin decision that I thought was outrageous or uncalled for.

just my two cents
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Postby DVD Burner » Thu Apr 29, 2004 7:25 am

Actually I dont know.
He made an actual physical threat to TP. that worries me. Mostly about her well being more so than anything. He seems like a cop or a wanna be cop. people like that are unstable.
You should pull a restraining order out on him.


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Postby anticdevices » Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:40 am

I really don't see any problem with deleting him, mostly in the interests of being consistent. Not that consistency is the be-all end-all or anything, but it does make it easier for people to foresee the consequences of their actions.

Ah. Well. In most cases.

Though I do agree that he does provide some amusement value. But I'd rather encourage Ring O’Fire’s brand of entertainment (as an example) over ranting screeds.
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Postby Tancorix » Thu Apr 29, 2004 9:58 am

TP, your actions were right on target again. As for what to do with him, this is turning into a game of "Whack a mole" you never know where he's going to resurface again.

What seriously concerns me is the threats. He threatened you with physical violence. You might have called him a toothless tiger, but it's not so much the teeth you worry about, tigers have claws and other abilities to hurt you before needing to use their teeth. My point here is your personal safety was challenged in public....and I'm wondering what can be done to prevent a repeat?

It's easy to call the guy a psycho, loony or other names and dismiss him....but these kinds of people can be very dangerous. The more he gets bounced the angrier he gets, then what little logic we were dealing with gets overcome by sheer rage. Maybe I'm rambling but this guy comes across as semi-smart and dangerous. Not a combination to be handled lightly.
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Postby stuart » Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:02 pm

what, you mean BRR was part of the stopbmorg.com gang?
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Re: BRR - the soap opera continues...

Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Apr 29, 2004 2:49 pm

technopatra wrote:It's no skin off my nose to deactivate him over and over, but the fascism and technopatra-as-enemy-of-the-first-amendment cracks have me laughing chocolate milk through the same nose. But perhaps keeping a violator around because I think he's funny and he makes me feel good about my work here is not appropriate admin behavior.

(elipses)

Tell me what you'd like to see happen.
I want him gone. I was real active in going after him--but I'm like a terrier beside a rat hole. I have trouble turning off that part of my brain. (Take THAT hunter analogy, BRR.) It was so much more relaxing to be here without him. He can rejoin, of course. But then it's up to him to be polite enough not to get thrown off again. I tend to agree with the poor socialization/irritating personality hypothesis--in part because I struggle with that in my own life. And I certainly don't want to say that that puts him forever beyond the pale. But as long as he treats e-playans like bears in a pit to be tormented for his own amusement (yeah, yeah, right back at him) he runs the risk of being booted. And he has never put any vital part of himself on the table. All he does is sneer at us, like the grinch of Black Rock. I will admit that my style of trying to dialogue with him was not productive, yet, even at my poofiest I think if he had laid something real on the table I would have backed down. I'm not as whole some a Cindy Loo Hoo, but I am not a maruding barbarian 24/7.

I gotta wonder how many posters dropped off the board in the past 3 months between him and the stopbmcrew. It really did make this an unpleasent place at times.
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Postby juanicoheal » Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:51 pm

This clown has something to prove to himself or some cronies.

If his physical threats are to be taken seriously, that should be dealt with in the real world rather than online. There's really not much you can do about it here, except documentation of actions.

He's just going to keep re-inventing himself, if does have something to prove. For the moment we know what his moniker is. His stance on the event isn't going to change, so he'll always be easy to spot if deactivation is necessary.

I say either the current account is left alone, with close monitoring of his posts, deleting posts as necessary, or we start a chameleon count. How many notches will TP get on her belt?

Could turn into a theme camp - The many faces of BRR. ( I envision dartboards with charicatures him on his llama in his various guises ) Voodoo dolls to throw into the "Flamer's Inferno" ( We'll make a special one for you TP.) Monday night - effigy burn. That way he won't be around to bother anyone all week.
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Postby Bob » Fri Apr 30, 2004 1:45 am

If TP is simply following up on previous decisions, I see nothing worthy of a new case study in this, unless there's some seriousness about backing off altogether. I've respected previous decisions, although if it were up to me I would have done nothing.

IMO, somebody posting like "Crack Baby Ric", or "DVD Burglar", or "Bob" even, deserves whatever response you feel is appropriate, or no response at all. It's not as if there's a risk of Bowdlerizing the works of Shakespeare in it.

CAESAR:
"Pardon him, Theodotus: he is a barbarian,
and thinks that the customs of his tribe and
island are the laws of nature."

ie, in other parts of the online world, there also be fuckwits, and people deal with them without any undo hand-holding, wet-nursing, or diaper-changing.

'Nuff said.
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Postby Tancorix » Fri Apr 30, 2004 8:14 am

So...we're supposed to overlook his threats of physical violence? Just look the other way as this crackpot stews, his rage gets stronger and next thing you know TP has a stalker that carries out his threats?

I have experience with stalkers as I've got one myself. I had a 9MM pulled on me coming out of work last year...I've learned to take threats very seriously. While not every situation will be like mine, national resources on the subject advise paying attention to these kinds of things as they can be precursors to future adverse events. In other words, ignore this conduct at your own peril.

I'm thinking the admins might want to investigate IP logging so if he returns with more threats, the legal team has more to work with than an elusive untrackable e-mail address. No action is an option...but if this escalates and he does something, I don't want to be one who has regrets about it.
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Postby DVD Burner » Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:40 am

I say, let TP and the crew do what they want.
explaining things till your blue in the face wont change anything.
you've given your opinion. time to move on.
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Postby blyslv » Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:43 am

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
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Postby Bob » Fri Apr 30, 2004 11:53 am

AFAIK, TP is asking for input, but it seems to be others who are mentioning "threats of physical violence", not her.

I know I'll regret this, but would any of you f-wits feel inclined to provide a cite (ie, a representative quote, with attribution) here and define exactly how it may constitute "threats of physical violence" in terms of a relevant case study, rather than go completely off-topic?
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Postby blyslv » Fri Apr 30, 2004 1:50 pm

"If your not careful, I'll come over and give you such a pinch."

posting.php?mode=reply&t=2537
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Postby calsur » Sat May 01, 2004 1:42 am

Black Rock Ric wrote "Thus it is with Nicole, by acting in such a petty fashion, she pissed me off. I make my living by zapping folks with Tazers, Pepper spraying them, whacking them with baseball bats when necessary, all backed up with a fair amount of fire power, North Las Vegas Skip Tracer..."

Ric, you just made a terrorist threat.

California Penal Code § 422 (2001) - Punishment for (Terrorist) Threats

Good enough cite, Bob?


The thing that really pisses me off about the whole BBR thing is “it” is just a bully. Just my opinion
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Postby calsur » Sat May 01, 2004 1:47 am

ePlaya Forum Index -> Yearround -> General Discussion -> Fascism in Action

Bob, this was where the original post was on page 1
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Postby Bob » Sun May 02, 2004 7:05 pm

Give me a break. Everybody on this Bulletin-BS is a freaking menace.
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