Mankind Research Unlimited

Postby Simon of the Playa » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:20 pm

try taking 30 mg. first thing in the morning....


not for the faint at heart.
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Postby Toolmaker » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:46 pm

I'm supposed to goto a psych doc because of my RSD. The docs aren't happy that I want amputation and/or euthanasia to get rid of the pain in the toe. They tried numerous anti-depressants and nothing worked. Alot of those "brain" drugs have odd effects on me other than what they are supposed to. Sometimes pills have the exact opposite effect.. thats why I try to stick to weed.
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Postby jkisha » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:58 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:
the bigger question is, for what reason are we as a society being cranked up?

to handle the information and multi-tasking that we now do as "the norm"?

to be able to "focus" for more hours at a time and retain the information acquired?

whatever it is, the down side is the many side effects of long term usage, which are still being studied, and i am part of that.



I've always been a proponent of better living through chemistry. I must admit that I have never thought of this in terms of " for what reason are we as a society being cranked up?" as this being something that 'big brother' was trying to force on us to better attain 'his' goals.

My thinking is more along the lines of what I am willing to do to achieve my personal goals.

And just as with recreational or other 'legal' pharmaseutical drugs, there are always side effects and trade-offs to be made.

I had a surprise epiphinay of sorts when in my mid 30s. I was in the midst of a depression that lasted for probably months. Didn't really think at the time there was much that was wrong other than I was a bit 'down'. Then, a friend came over and happened to ask me if I wanted to do a couple lines of coke with him. This was the first time I had done drugs in many months and I figured what the fuck, and we finished off the better part of an 8 ball.

Well, to my surprise, my depression totally lifted. I really can't explain it other than to compare it to a drastic version of becoming "claratin clear" like in those commercials.

It was then that I did go and see a doctor who prescribed some legal drugs that I could take with fewer side effects. They didn't work as well as the coke, but when I started getting too jittery and the benefits of the pills started to become outweighed by the side effects, I stopped taking them. Fortunately, either taking those drugs or maybe just time seemed to put my chemistry back in balance and I haven't been depressed since.

Anyway Simon, I'd be willing to bet that when your experiment starts to have more adverse side effects than the benefits you are receiving from them, you will quit.

All this talk has just made me want to try one of those drugs even more! Too bad I don't know any college students.

JK

(Oh, and I'm another one of those 'non-huggers'. Though I'm trying hard to change that.)
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:02 pm

interesting.




i have not done it in a long time nor do i want to.


as far as i can tell, in it's current status, purity, and price, nothing good will ever come of it, unless you're into crack whores, in which case, you'd be the man..

maybe like some writers and thinkers of an age gone by where you could get medical grade at the drugstore and mix up your own speedball or whatever suited your chemical fancy. Now, it is illegal, unpure, and outrageously expensive in relative terms, hence the growth of both the legit and iilegit crank industry, the legit being sponsored by uncle sam and other nations for obvious reasons.

cocaine, if used liked the indians that chew it for altitude adjustment and against hunger and fatigue is not a bad thing i think, i opine, not ever having done it in that manner, or for extended periods of time, however, the processed powder is a downward spiral of self delusion.

first you party with your friends at parties, etc, then with just a few coke buddies, and then by yourself, in a bathroom, before a PTA meeting.


see what i mean, it's a dead end road, as far as i can tell, it begins to mimic your actual dopamine receptor sites, and after a while, you cant be "happy" unless you are on it.

so, for these and other reasons, i now decline, although i have always loved the ritual of chopping, and cutting out lines and snorting something into my nose, the ritual is almost as important, in my eyes.
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Postby jkisha » Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:09 pm

It's always the "experience" or the ritual--call it what you will. Same as dining out--the food is only a part of the experience.

My attitude towards any recreational drug is only to augment some other activity. I think people get into trouble when the drugs become 'the' activity.

And like anything else, moderation is key. (Moderation is easier now that I'm older.)

Anyway, enough of this serious talk, let's get back to snarking and baiting.

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Mind machines

Postby Ugly Dougly » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:01 am

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Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:48 pm

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Postby Ugly Dougly » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:53 am

Not exactly. :) The device I shared has lights that blink in a certain frequency (or frequencies since they can be deliberately out of phase), and can coordinated with sounds (which can also be out of phase).

You relax and close your eyes. Soon, you feel like you're tripping on LSD.

These are sometimes called LSD Flight Simulators. :D
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:49 am

yes dougly, i actually have tried the "phase shifters" pictured.

they were ok...my friend spent the ridiculous sum they were asking for a pair, and he still has them and uses them to "relax".

i prefer my Lsd more Lsd-ey.


However, with the coming integration of Man and Machine and the inherent ability of our minds to pull the wool over our own eyes, we will soon see virtual simulators that will make us question the very nature of reality.
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:22 am

I bought one gadget that was made out of plastic. It was like a rigid scuba mask that went over your face.

There were no wires; you just puffed through a pipe and something spun around inside, intermittently blocking sunlight at varying frequencies (depending on how hard you puffed). With your eyes closed you saw some pretty cool pictures.

That one was cheap, anyway.

There have been a few participatory installations on-playa that played with these ideas.
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:58 am

if i can get a grant, or win a small scratch off lotto ticket, i'm going to build the sensory overload chamber that consists of a cube that is made from 216 televisions, each wall being a 6 x 6 grid of Televisions, 36 per side.

each wall will have 36 different "channels" all at the same volume. each wall has the same array of channels so that no matter where you look, up, down, sideways, it's all tv, all the time.

i believe that after an extended immersion via La-Z-Boy comfort technology sitting apparatus the mind will separate and re-align it's filters to not only watch, but comprehend all 36 stations at once...an OmniView, a Weltscmerz Machine, a digital Panopticon.

you can take it all in at once.....of course, Dr. Lilly and his associates went stark raving mad in the isolation / deprivation tank so one can only surmise what this might do to a "normal", "healthy" brain.


i kinda dig the temporary schizoid mental state, but i'm weird that way.
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Love it!

Postby Shellahhh » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:07 pm

How about some Past-life regression??? Any specialists you know in that field??
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:50 am

Past Life Regression?


i'm sorry honey, but thats right up there with Chiropractice, Reiki, and Chicken Bone Divination.


we only use REAL science here.
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Re: Love it!

Postby Ugly Dougly » Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:46 pm

Shellahhh wrote:How about some Past-life regression??? Any specialists you know in that field??


Ask Simon about Past Life Repression. He's an expert in that. ;)
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:14 am

head over heels.....


COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. – A pediatric neurosurgeon says a tumor he removed from the brain of a Colorado Springs infant contained a tiny foot and other partially formed body parts.

Dr. Paul Grabb said he operated on Sam Esquibel at Memorial Hospital for Children after an MRI showed a microscopic tumor on the newborn's brain. Sam was 3 days old and otherwise healthy.

Grabb said that while removing the growth, he discovered it contained a nearly perfect foot and the formation of another foot, a hand and a thigh.

"It looked like the breach delivery of a baby, coming out of the brain," Grabb said. "To find a perfectly formed structure (like this) is extremely unique, unusual, borderline unheard of."

Grabb isn't sure what caused the growth but says it may have been a type of congenital brain tumor. However, such tumors usually are less complex than a foot or hand, he said.

The growth may also have been a case of "fetus in fetu" — in which a fetal twin begins to form within another — but such cases very rarely occur in the brain, Grabb said.

Sam's parents, Tiffnie and Manuel Esquibel, said their son is at home now but faces monthly blood tests to check for signs of cancer or regrowth, along with physical therapy to improve the use of his neck. But they say he has mostly recovered from the Oct. 3 surgery.

"You'd never know if he didn't have a scar there," Tiffnie Esquibel said.
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Postby mdmf007 » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:09 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:head over heels.....


COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. – A pediatric neurosurgeon says a tumor he removed from the brain of a Colorado Springs infant contained a tiny foot and other partially formed body parts.

Dr. Paul Grabb said he operated on Sam Esquibel at Memorial Hospital for Children after an MRI showed a microscopic tumor on the newborn's brain. Sam was 3 days old and otherwise healthy.

Grabb said that while removing the growth, he discovered it contained a nearly perfect foot and the formation of another foot, a hand and a thigh.

"It looked like the breach delivery of a baby, coming out of the brain," Grabb said. "To find a perfectly formed structure (like this) is extremely unique, unusual, borderline unheard of."

Grabb isn't sure what caused the growth but says it may have been a type of congenital brain tumor. However, such tumors usually are less complex than a foot or hand, he said.

The growth may also have been a case of "fetus in fetu" — in which a fetal twin begins to form within another — but such cases very rarely occur in the brain, Grabb said.

Sam's parents, Tiffnie and Manuel Esquibel, said their son is at home now but faces monthly blood tests to check for signs of cancer or regrowth, along with physical therapy to improve the use of his neck. But they say he has mostly recovered from the Oct. 3 surgery.

"You'd never know if he didn't have a scar there," Tiffnie Esquibel said.


This is a Teratoma - ive heard some horror stories out there, makes surgeons lose sleep im sure.
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Postby wedeliver » Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:23 pm

Above there is a mention of the "healthful" effects of some drugs like cocaine, here is my offering.


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My favorite drinking song (the only one I know) is..

drink drink drink to Lilly The Pink
her compound cured every case.
(the songs a lot longer and I have posted it before)
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Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:25 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:"It looked like the breach delivery of a baby, coming out of the brain," Grabb said. "To find a perfectly formed structure (like this) is extremely unique, unusual, borderline unheard of."
Did anyone else want to have the option of a photo viewing.
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Postby jkisha » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:17 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
Simon of the Playa wrote:"It looked like the breach delivery of a baby, coming out of the brain," Grabb said. "To find a perfectly formed structure (like this) is extremely unique, unusual, borderline unheard of."
Did anyone else want to have the option of a photo viewing.


Yes.

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Postby Napalm Demon » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:59 pm

jkisha wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
Simon of the Playa wrote:"It looked like the breach delivery of a baby, coming out of the brain," Grabb said. "To find a perfectly formed structure (like this) is extremely unique, unusual, borderline unheard of."
Did anyone else want to have the option of a photo viewing.


Yes.

JK


I searched for it - didn't find that exact stories photos, but I did find others. The information is out there, but I am not reposting it here. I'd feel guilty if someone stumbled upon them after eating. :shock:
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Postby jkisha » Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:15 pm

Napalm Demon wrote:
jkisha wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
Simon of the Playa wrote:"It looked like the breach delivery of a baby, coming out of the brain," Grabb said. "To find a perfectly formed structure (like this) is extremely unique, unusual, borderline unheard of."
Did anyone else want to have the option of a photo viewing.


Yes.

JK


I searched for it - didn't find that exact stories photos, but I did find others. The information is out there, but I am not reposting it here. I'd feel guilty if someone stumbled upon them after eating. :shock:


I was thinking appetizers.

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Postby Simon of the Playa » Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:59 am

Shocking revelation: Santa Clara University professor mirrors famous torture study

By Lisa M. Krieger

Bay Area News Group
Article Launched: 12/20/2008 08:00:00 PM PST

Replicating one of the most controversial behavioral experiments in history, a Santa Clara University psychologist has found that people will follow orders from an authority figure to administer what they believe are painful electric shocks.

More than two-thirds of volunteers in the research study had to be stopped from administering 150 volt shocks of electricity, despite hearing a person's cries of pain, professor Jerry M. Burger concluded in a study published in the January issue of the journal American Psychologist.

"In a dramatic way, it illustrates that under certain circumstances people will act in very surprising and disturbing ways,'' said Burger.

The study, using paid volunteers from the South Bay, is similar to the famous 1974 "obedience study'' by the late Yale University psychologist Stanley Milgram. In the wake of Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann's trial, Milgram was troubled by the willingness of people to obey authorities — even if it conflicted with their own conscience.

Burger's findings are published in a special section of the journal reflecting on Milgram's work 24 years after his death on Dec. 20, 1984. The haunting images of average people administering shocks have kept memories of Milgram's research alive for decades, even as recently as the Abu Ghraib scandal.

The subjects — recruited in ads in the Mercury News, Craigslist and fliers distributed in libraries and communities centers in Santa
Advertisement
Clara, Cupertino and Sunnyvale — thought they were testing the effect of punishment on learning.

"They were average citizens, a typical cross-section of people that you'd see around every day,'' said Burger.

In the study, conducted two years ago, volunteers administered what they believed were increasingly powerful electric shocks to another person in a separate room. An "authority figure'' prodded the volunteer to shock another person, who was playing the role of "learner." Each time the learner gave an incorrect answer, the volunteer was urged to press a switch, seemingly increasing the electricity over time. They were told that the shocks were painful but not dangerous.

Burger designed his study to avoid several of the most controversial elements of Milgram's experiment. For instance, the "shocks'' were lower voltage. And participants were told at least three times that they could withdraw from the study at any time and still receive the $50 payment. In addition, a clinical psychologist interviewed volunteers to eliminate anyone who might be upset by the study procedure.

Like Milgram's study, Burger's shock generator machine was a fake. The cries of pain weren't real, either. Both the authority figure and the learner were actors — faculty members Brian Oliveira and Kenneth Courtney.

Burger found that 70 percent of the participants had to be stopped from escalating shocks over 150 volts, despite hearing cries of protest and pain. Decades earlier, Milgram found that 82.5 percent of participants continued administering shocks. Of those, 79 percent continued to the shock generator's end, at 450 volts.

Burger's experiment did not go that far.

"The conclusion is not: 'Gosh isn't this a horrible commentary on human nature,' or 'these people were so sadistic,'' said Burger.

"It shows the opposite — that there are situational forces that have a much greater impact on our behavior than most people recognize,'' he said.

The experiment shows that people are more likely to comply with instructions if the task starts small, then escalates, according to Burger.

"For instance, the suicides at Jonestown were just the last step of many,'' he said. "Jim Jones started small, asking people to donate time and money, then looked for more and more commitment.''

Additionally, the volunteers confronted a novel situation — having never before been in such a setting, they had no idea of how they were supposed to act, he said.

Finally, they had been told that they should not feel responsible for inflicting pain; rather, the "instructor" was accountable. "Lack of feeling responsible can lead people to act in ways that they might otherwise not,'' said Burger.

"When we see people acting out of character, the first thing we should ask is: 'What's going on in this situation?'''

Contact Lisa M. Krieger at lkrieger@mercurynews.com or (408) 920-5565.
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Postby fciron » Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:39 am

Repeat Milgram's authority experiment and get the same results 34 years later.

PROGRESS!!!


Go Baby, Go!


Simon, BMan might provide the perfect opportunity to repeat the highly successful Stanford Prison Experiment as well. After all, it's ok to traumatize people as long as there is no danger of reaching new conclusions. :shock:
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Postby wedeliver » Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:18 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
Simon of the Playa wrote:"It looked like the breach delivery of a baby, coming out of the brain," Grabb said. "To find a perfectly formed structure (like this) is extremely unique, unusual, borderline unheard of."
Did anyone else want to have the option of a photo viewing.


Image

video here:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/SecondOpin ... 655&page=1
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:50 am

i have been in jail and am well aware of the Guard & Prisoner dynamic that occurs and the sadistic and masochistic tendencies that result on each side of the equation.


the dramatic part of this experience is the way even BEST friends became enemies, and this experiment had to be halted because of what was occurring to both sides of the test subjects.


i wonder though about the timing of this second experiment concerning electric shock because it actually provides an excuse and rationale for torture and what has happened in Abu-Ghirab etc etc.

"oh hell, ANYONE will do it if told to do so....so therefore, they were just following orders..."


sound familiar?




ps. an excellent book by e.e. cummings, "The Enormous Room" deals with the prisoner side of the psychological transition in a most intriguing way.
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Postby wedeliver » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:21 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:i have been in jail and am well aware of the Guard & Prisoner dynamic that occurs and the sadistic and masochistic tendencies that result on each side of the equation.


the dramatic part of this experience is the way even BEST friends became enemies, and this experiment had to be halted because of what was occurring to both sides of the test subjects.


i wonder though about the timing of this second experiment concerning electric shock because it actually provides an excuse and rationale for torture and what has happened in Abu-Ghirab etc etc.

"oh hell, ANYONE will do it if told to do so....so therefore, they were just following orders..."


sound familiar?




ps. an excellent book by e.e. cummings, "The Enormous Room" deals with the prisoner side of the psychological transition in a most intriguing way.


Part of this research showed that "Normal" "Nice" people become evil over time. that it takes the incremental steps to actually become vicious.

You or I might think that we are immune to this, but if the right keys were used, if you or I were targeted, then it might be possible for the mind control to work. I think we see examples of this all the time.

What was I thinking!
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Postby jkisha » Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:19 pm

How do you think they condition and train soldiers to kill?

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Postby wedeliver » Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:47 pm

jkisha wrote:How do you think they condition and train soldiers to kill?

JK


For a lot of us that training did not make us killers, what did bring the blood to boil was fear and just having to protect yourself and your people. (that included fragging)


The training just made us good at it.
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Postby jkisha » Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:04 pm

wedeliver wrote:
jkisha wrote:How do you think they condition and train soldiers to kill?

JK


For a lot of us that training did not make us killers, what did bring the blood to boil was fear and just having to protect yourself and your people. (that included fragging)


The training just made us good at it.


That was just the fuse that set the training and conditioning into action. I can still remember the exact moment that my fuse was lit.

(or maybe, on second thought, we are both saying the same thing with different words.)

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Postby Simon of the Playa » Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:10 pm

well, we've already seen the Manchurian Burner Program, and it's complete success, so now i think we're ready for "Krowd Kontrol".
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