Electric Bicycle?

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Electric Bicycle?

Postby phil » Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:50 pm

Where would a bicycle with an electric motor fit in the scheme of things at Burning Man? Would that break the rule for powered vehicles? Would it matter if it's solar-powered?
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Postby gyre » Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:35 pm

It currently requires a permit.
I don't think anyone really cares if the rules of safety and speed are followed, but that's the current rule.
It would take a hell of a solar rig to do this.
And don't forget to light your ass up.
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Re: Electric Bicycle?

Postby unjonharley » Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:29 pm

phil wrote:Where would a bicycle with an electric motor fit in the scheme of things at Burning Man? Would that break the rule for powered vehicles? Would it matter if it's solar-powered?


I saw several electric assist bike last year.. Not so many this year.. None seemed to have a permitte attached.. They do not go so fast as to be a problem.. With playa drifts it would be hard to ride like any bike.. The tires sink in and suck the power..
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Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:54 pm

I heard a hottie say that the DMV was kinda blindsided (my paraphrase, did not take notes, on playa where my brain gets to be kinda mushy) by the number of them this year. That might lead to some sort of rules put in place in ohnine.
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Postby BoxaRox » Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:44 am

If we cannot outlaw them, then we must make them mandatory. or visa versa.
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Postby Karma » Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:55 pm

I dont think it would take that big of a solar setup to recharge electric bikes ? I see 600 watt panels for sale in the $300 - 500 dollar range. And I think they should be allowed.

Saying that the soft Playa would suck up the juice as to not make them worth it I think is in correct. In pedal assist mode, it would've made Pedaling thru the soft Playa this year like Pedaling on Hard Playa in years past if not easier. Plus in Pedal assist mode, you can get a range sometimes in excess of 20 miles on a single charge, even in soft Playa.
In full electric mode, you're correct, it would be a battery killer in soft playa. Maybe a few miles, maybe more depending on your battery setup.

They're quiet, easy to maintain and with the built in battery packs, it would be easier to do some creative illuminating (sacrificing some range in the process).

I would've been able to see ALOT more of the city this year with one and I plan on bringing two with me next year unless the org outlaws them for some stupid reason.
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Postby jkisha » Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:58 pm

For me it wasn't the peddling that was the problem, it was staying upright once you hit a soft spot.

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Postby unjonharley » Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:03 pm

jkisha wrote:For me it wasn't the peddling that was the problem, it was staying upright once you hit a soft spot.

JK


That's what they make trikes for..
Suggest you can make an electric trike from parts..

ONe trike and a used 24v scooter..
SAw a scooter on Craigs list for 60$. That beats the hell out of 1200.00.
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Postby gyre » Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:03 pm

Please post links to any panels that cheap.
Are they used?
If so, how much are outputs down from rated?

Electric, already requires a permit.
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Postby Colonel Monk » Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:24 pm

I'm thinking the same thing - they should be allowed, provided the rider doesn't ride faster than with pedalling and doesn't kick up a bunch of dust.

The increasing size of the city and playa conditions are causing me to change my mind, and I think we're all getting tired of listening to the Borg's ascertation that "stand-up powered scooters are OK, because you can't sit down on them." WTF? What kind of rationale is that?

I think scooters make more dust than a bicycle because of the fat tires low clearance to the ground. But even then, I'm not against the scooters, I just think that e-bikes are no different and we should be able to ride them in BRC.

I say we all just bring them, and ride them responsibly, and that's that. and if we get shit for it we can just remove the seat and stand on them.

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Postby jkisha » Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:35 pm

Well, based on my observations this year I would be more for allowing electric assist bikes and banning scooters. The people I saw on scooters were always speeding and kicking up dust; seems the people with the electric bikes were more respectful of pedestrians and the playa in general.

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Postby unjonharley » Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:40 pm

jkisha wrote:Well, based on my observations this year I would be more for allowing electric assist bikes and banning scooters. The people I saw on scooters were always speeding and kicking up dust; seems the people with the electric bikes were more respectful of pedestrians and the playa in general.

JK


I do not see DMV having any problem with electric assist bikes.. They are not designed to go faster than a peddeled bike.. The key word is "assisted"..
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Postby phil » Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:46 pm

with the built in battery packs, it would be easier to do some creative illuminating (sacrificing some range in the process).

Our non-electric bikes this year:
Image
From http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?o=33&f=/c/a/2008/08/27/BAEE12J3FL.DTL

Lighting up electric bikes wouldn't be a problem.
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Postby gyre » Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:49 pm

The current rules make no distinction between pedalecs and pure electric bikes.
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Postby phil » Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:58 pm

gyre wrote:The current rules make no distinction between pedalecs and pure electric bikes.

Yeah, but is my ass lighted up enough? :->
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Postby gyre » Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:04 pm

Absolutely!
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Postby sun4all » Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:59 pm

You may find more comfort on a recumbent trike and thus not need the motor. Go to www.atomiczombie.com for ideas. There are plenty of pre-made trikes out there. The standard ones will be a lot less expensive than recumbents which are sadly a bit rare in this country. I'm in the process of building a sociable recumbent trike so that we can peddle side by side on the playa.

I think the DMV does regulate any type of powered vehicle. Now, if you are really handy you could just get a hub motor, controller, and battery and leave it OFF the bike until you are unpacking. Then you could bolt everything back on, but I'm not sure the DMV would be very happy if they caught you.

As far as getting one's ass lit up, I usually like to get lit and THEN jump on my bike that has lots of lights, but that's just my preference :)
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Postby Karma » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:36 am

Gyre, My blunder on the wattage rating. Not even close to what I stated.
From now on I will wait at least an hour after waking up to post to the board. ^-^

But I've been looking at panels for RV's. Just google Rv solar panels.

Fine ass illumination Bill !
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Postby gyre » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:46 am

It's well worth doing for an rv.
I wouldn't expect more than lighting and basic electric power for a tv maybe.
Pay attention to cell types.
Some handle vibration much better than others.

If you need help with lighting let me know.
I recommend 12 volt fluorescents, us made ballasts.

A good use for solar panels is a direct vent fan for parked cars.
It can be done with no battery and a basic controller.
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Postby ilmarinen » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:11 pm

I have to say, I'm really baffled by the "stand-up scooters OK" rule, but nothing else is? What default-world-legal or in-reality difference is there between them and other powered vehicles that I am missing?

In particular, low-power mopeds--electric or gas. I saw a lot of these around the playa with no apparent permitting. I don't know that I have a problem with this myself, think they are less annoying than the gas-powered stand-up scooters. But when the rules are so illogical, and not evenly enforced, it creates a credibility/legitimacy problem for the rules as a whole. Are gate folks supposed to be screening for those? And what about that--I read the rules as saying one is not allowed to bring them into the event--but what if you are just traveling with them for use off-playa? Some folks drive a long ways, and many RVs bring tow-vehicles or scooters along. The rules don't make sense.

So, what if someone made a MV that was a stand-up chariot with a motorized drive out front (something along the lines of the RoboShaw). Would that OK to go not-licensed? What if it was made with the engine from one of those stand-up scooters?

Also, having lots of non-DMV approved vehicles running around because they are DPW, Emergency, staff, etc., yet don't have any clear markings of such further creates confusion as to the rules. I understand why they are allowed/needed, but they should have some sorta permit/pass clearly shown so folks know what category they are under.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:39 pm

ilmarinen wrote:
Also, having lots of non-DMV approved vehicles running around because they are DPW, Emergency, staff, etc., yet don't have any clear markings of such further creates confusion as to the rules.
Those should have door seals.
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Postby gyre » Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:47 pm

To keep the dust out?
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Postby unjonharley » Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:51 pm

gyre wrote:To keep the dust out?


To keep two weeks on the playa smell in?
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Postby ilmarinen » Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:07 pm

Maybe there were just a lot of "pirate" vehicles running around then.



[quote="theCryptofishist"][quote="ilmarinen"]

Also, having lots of non-DMV approved vehicles running around because they are DPW, Emergency, staff, etc., yet don't have any clear markings of such further creates confusion as to the rules. [/quote]Those should have door seals.[/quote]
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Postby phil » Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:13 pm

Door seal:
Image

Door seal:
Image

Door seal:
Image
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Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:57 am

I suggest that if you see an "Artery" vehicle with the last, do not argue.
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Postby Box Burner » Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:02 pm

The speed limit for motorized vehicles in BRC is 5 miles per hour. The average person can walk that fast without any trouble. Although most peeps walk at a pace of 3 to 4 miles per hour to facilitate sight seeing. I saw several motorized scooters that were going 15 to 20 miles per hour or more. And all motorized vehicles are supposed to be mutant or art cars except for dpw and handicapped. I think this year I saw only 1 or 2 scooters that were decorated. And if you are riding on a scooter (stand up vehicle) there is a 99% probability that you are not handicapped. DMV has requested that handicap vehicles be decorated as art cars and many of our fine handicapped citizens have done that. So there is no excuse for scooters to not be made into mutant vehicles.

I do not think that motorized scootes should be allowed. It is only a matter of time before someone gets hit by one of those scooters going 20 mph.
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Postby gyre » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:08 pm

Stand up scooters do not require a permit.
If you think electric bikes make more sense than scooters, write the llc.
Scooters are still required to meet safety regs, including the 5 mph or less rule.
Crowds often require vehicles to go very slow.
Anyone who has used a bike out there knows that.
If you aren't okay with that, don't try to drive.

Most handicaps are not visible and may range from heart problems to parkinsons etc.
I have a bad knee, so a standup anything wouldn't be my first choice, but I could tolerate it better than cycling, which seems to be particularly destructive for me.
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Postby jkisha » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:22 pm

I would agree that I saw the most violations of speed limits and reckless disregard for pedestrians by people/kids on stand-up scooters.

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Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:23 pm

Box Burner wrote:The speed limit for motorized vehicles in BRC is 5 miles per hour. The average person can walk that fast without any trouble.
I go 5mph, and, believe me, most people don't walk anything close to that. Maybe trot or jog, but not walk.
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