Arrests and Crime stats?

Postby hsdavis » Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:35 am

The 6 interactions with the police this year were ones that I had myself. They were just snooping and "doing their job". I had no drugs on me and was not doing anything suspicious. In every case they left empty handed and dissapointed. I have never seen the police so vigilent, off base and out of control as they were this year.
Since I have no illeagal drugs with me, I am thinking that I could withstand a search of my personal belongings by the police. I have in my tent some over the counter sleeping pills and if they are in an unmarked bottle, I will go to jail until the tests come back. The pills look like they could be something bad and in their excited frenzy, the police will only think the worst.
Again, I have never seen such a rouge group of out of control police trying to find anything they can to justify their exsistance.
I will say again, that one on one, they are all very nice men and women. But the marching orders they're getting are extremely nazi-like! The police need new leadship and a new plan.
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Postby unjonharley » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:46 am

Tristan wrote:There was a large-scale police action on the playa at dawn sunday morning. They arrested several people, apparently for drugs. LEO guys were in ambush around the big flaming yellow ducky art car where people were dancing., observing people with binoculars, and at one point they did the bust with dogs and many BLM rangers and other LEO (Sheriff etc) (maybe 15 cars and trucks).

I took most photos with a telephoto because they made it clear didn't like photographers taking photos of them in action.

i asked several BRC rangers about what happened, but they all declined to comment. I'm sure some people in the Burning Man organization know the story.

see photos here:

http://flickr.com/photos/loupiote/tags/leo/


What the hell were these pictures suppose to show.. Other than police moving around.. Showed no one in cuffs.. Showed no one being moved.. Did show passer-by, not paying any attention to the cops.. Did show a police that may or may not be talking to some one..Did show a bunch of police standing around there trucks..AS for the person on the ground in that photo.. You can see people sitting in this manor to rest on the playa or a park at home..

Come back when you have something of value to this subject to show and tell..
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Postby ZaphodBurner » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:54 am

Observations are valuable.

By the way, Tristan, excellent photos again this year.
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Postby Tristan » Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:01 pm

> AS for the person on the ground in that photo.. You can see people sitting in this manor to rest on the playa or a park at home

this guy was handcuffed.

he was just not resting there in the middle of 15 police cars (there was about that many in a large circle around him, although you see only a couple on this cropped photo). he was brought there by the cops.

i'm sure other people witnessed this police action, there were about 100 people at the flaming yellow ducky at dawn when this took place. i saw another guy (in a costume) being taken by police from a small art car parked near the flaming yellow ducky, during the same bust.
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Postby unjonharley » Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:12 pm

Tristan wrote:> AS for the person on the ground in that photo.. You can see people sitting in this manor to rest on the playa or a park at home

this guy was handcuffed.

he was just not resting there in the middle of 15 police cars (there was about that many in a large circle around him, although you see only a couple on this cropped photo). he was brought there by the cops.

i'm sure other people witnessed this police action, there were about 100 people at the flaming yellow ducky at dawn when this took place. i saw another guy (in a costume) being taken by police from a small art car parked near the flaming yellow ducky, during the same bust.


Police do no cuff from the front.

THis was taken with a telaphoto lens huh? So you know just what went on there?

It's half ass shit like this that keeps the cops/drug users at odds.

Come back when you have something real.. Up close and personal..
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Postby willyloafofphora » Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:42 pm

I watched the early Sunday Disco Duck police freak out from on top of the temple. They were speeding across the playa at what must have been like 40 to 50 mph it was ridiculous they could have killed someone. Their behavior was much more dangerous than the drugs they were probably after. I don't know for sure that it was about drugs but thats my gut feeling. I would be down to spend some time monitoring them next year.
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Postby Tristan » Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:51 pm

> They were speeding across the playa at what must have been like 40 to 50 mph it was ridiculous they could have killed someone.

yes, that's correct. i saw them going really very fast on the playa during this operation. i don't think it was justified by the possible crime they were dealing with.
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Postby unjonharley » Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:59 pm

willyloafofphora wrote:I watched the early Sunday Disco Duck police freak out from on top of the temple. They were speeding across the playa at what must have been like 40 to 50 mph it was ridiculous they could have killed someone. Their behavior was much more dangerous than the drugs they were probably after. I don't know for sure that it was about drugs but thats my gut feeling. I would be down to spend some time monitoring them next year.


OK now, Some one saw this raid..

I have a good vidio camcorder w/tella and nite vision.. Next year it will be cocked and ready for any show time..

If I get any footage I will ask others to wittness the time place and so on..

My main thing right now is to stop these half truths.. If this can be done..It is a start at correcting the wrongs put on BRC citizens
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Postby hsdavis » Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:04 pm

unjonharley wrote:

Police do no cuff from the front.

THis was taken with a telaphoto lens huh? So you know just what went on there?

It's half ass shit like this that keeps the cops/drug users at odds.

Come back when you have something real.. Up close and personal..

Are you a Rebulican who thinks that George W. Bush is the best President we ever had?

Have you ever actually attend the Burning Man festival in Nevada?

If you did attend the event, have you ever wandered away from the safety and comfort of your camp to see what is going on outside?

Were you in law enforcement before you retired?

Are you really retired or are you just some 16 year old pimply faced kid playing games?
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Postby dragonfly Jafe » Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:19 pm

hsdavis wrote:Are you a Rebulican who thinks that George W. Bush is the best President we ever had?

Have you ever actually attend the Burning Man festival in Nevada?

If you did attend the event, have you ever wandered away from the safety and comfort of your camp to see what is going on outside?

Were you in law enforcement before you retired?

Are you really retired or are you just some 16 year old pimply faced kid playing games?


What does any of this have to do with the discussion? Ad hominem maybe?

"(Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject."

However I know Unjonharley, and can attest he is a veteran burner and of a respectable age. He is also a fascinating and wonderful person. You, I don't know (except for your posts).
Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.
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Postby ZaphodBurner » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:18 pm

hsdavis wrote:But the marching orders they're getting are extremely nazi-like!


If they were extremely nazi-like there would be no Burning Man, and/or you'd be dead now for being a dissident. Perspective.

It's weird...I saw people along our street and visiting our camp using or talking about drugs I'd never even heard of until this year, and not one of them had any contact at all with the police. The one year they did, which was when their RV broke down on the side of the road with a bunch of weed and mushroom in the back, the cop that stopped to assist them had a K-9 in the back. I have a hard time figuring out how people get busted.

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Postby willyloafofphora » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:36 pm

Accidents happen and they really suck.
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Gettin some wheres..

Postby vertigo900 » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:44 pm

unjonharley wrote:Vert, Gotta say a few do not 100's make..

Everyone!! at BM has to understand "you are profiled as a wild drunken druged out freak"


I agree. But I believe that doesn't make it right to profile. I also believe it's wrong to violate Constitutional law and federal profiling bans in hopes of catching someone breaking a laws that give their agency more funding next year. I might add, A LOT more funding than addressing other more devastating problems on the playa like rape, theft, and vandalism. I can care less if someone wants to go on a vision quest on the playa as long as they are NOT going to pilot a MV or do a cannonball off a 50 foot scaffolding.

The sad thing is, if someone rapes my campmate, then I find out where he's camping. I would probably have better luck getting LEO assistance if I caught the fuck myself and dragged him over to Opulent or Roots (my opinion). They may as well just put their outposts there! If I need that kind of self-reliance what are they out there for? When I found out some aholes from my camp stole 4 bikes. Where the fuck were they?!!! They were busy packing up for Exodus. We even went to the BR Rangers outpost and no one wanted to touch the headache. This type of theft can ruin peoples burn and needs to stop. We need better action; more pro-active protocols need to be put in place and follow though needs to be carried out. Such as, if the thief returns, which I just found out he had returned this year, the LEOs and BRR should go have a talk with him...key point now...EVEN IF IT HAPPENED LAST YEAR. They weren't even my bikes, but I give more of a shit than they apparently do. If the LEOs want to do some positive work on the playa, they need to begin by reprioritizing their focus away from chasing every burner down waiting for them to light something up, put something in their mouth, dig in their backpack, or pick something up off the ground. And towards REAL devastating issues like rape, vandalism, theft, and any other behaviors that physically and emotionally injure OTHER burners. Some people thought the bike thefts were kinda funny and dismissed it as their comedian buddy getting shit-faced and he stole the bikes because someone stole his and he thought it would be funny. Well he better hope some people don't find where he's camping next year!

If you are of the few that chose to break the law.. It's on you and you alone.. I say" stop your whining" There are not enough of you to force any change.. Citing proabishion is crap..


I for one have joined the campain to bring hemp back..


Free H.R. 3037...HEMP for Victory!!! And Plywood, floor joists, carpet, etc.

AS for my personal life and drugs.. I have been morbitly brain and nerve damaged from illegal drugs.. I did miss the LSD eara and have not gotten into any designer stuff..


I'm sorry to hear that. That sucks. Yes drugs are bad, I believe, in the same way anything consumed beyond moderation is unhealthy. I seen people have a tragedy in there life and go from recreational user to addict in order to escape the pain, guilt, and self-loathing. I also have friends who have over-exercised or done sport and ruined their vertebrates and joints, some have even died. I also have family members who have overeaten fats and sugars to the point of developing diabetes, heart disease and ultimately dying earlier than they should have. But should the government begin to regulate their behaviors? Should they also be incarcerated and held longer than murders and rapists for their non-violent crimes? Since the early the war of drugs began in the early 1980s, the US government has more money is being put into funding prisons and the war on drugs than into public education and job training programs. Now that machines have been put into place, there is big money to be made in the incarceration of humans for non-violent drug related offenses. Once big money became invested and realized the potential financial returns, the Prison-Industrial Complex erupted and sadly has became a pandora's box for our society to begin to close and reappropriate it's limited resources. Does this sound like a dangerous trend to you? But this brings me back to my question to you, Unjon; do you believe there are any positive medical benefits in the consumpution of substances such as marijuana if taken respectfully, in moderation, and/or according to a doctor's recommendation? Given your background, what are your current opinions on this?

Sence then I have served the public interest in drug rehabilation.. Pulling injured back from the brink of distruction.. I have held 5 in my arms while they died of illegal drugs.. I worked out in the streets where these people are.. I have been beaten stomped and shot at by dealer trying to get rid of me.. I worked hard to force new laws to help,not punish drug users.. That part has worked some what.. I have had to stop on request of my childeren for my health.. More than likely I have been at war longer than most drug user have been alive..


Thank you for all the positive work and sacrifices you have done in regards to drug rehab and other positives toward our society. Our personal lessons in life can become another's blessing when we choose to take the time to share our exeriences and allow others the opportuntiy to learn vicariously through our sucesses and mistakes.

With that said.. lets start getting peoples head right..

Don't walk into the loins den an fuck with the cat.. The playa is Ferderal/tribal land.. Don't go there and fuck with the man..


With laws that violate our right of freedom of assembly like the Rave Act and Patriot Act, thus preventing folks from doing it on private land...I can't think of a better place to do it or better group of critical thinking freaky humans to do it with! :D

Lets start a campaign asking for a BRC ranger to wittness any interactions between yourself and the playa law man..


Sounds great! :D I'm all for it! Public education of rights, collection of video documented LEO behaviors for LEEP, etc..
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Re: Gettin some wheres..

Postby willyloafofphora » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:57 pm

" I can care less if someone wants to go on a vision quest on the playa as long as they are NOT going to pilot a MV or do a cannonball off a 50 foot scaffolding."

"If you think you can fly take off from the ground." the late great Bill Hicks.
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Postby vertigo900 » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:00 pm

dragonfly Jafe wrote:
hsdavis wrote:Are you a Rebulican who thinks that George W. Bush is the best President we ever had?

Have you ever actually attend the Burning Man festival in Nevada?

If you did attend the event, have you ever wandered away from the safety and comfort of your camp to see what is going on outside?

Were you in law enforcement before you retired?

Are you really retired or are you just some 16 year old pimply faced kid playing games?


What does any of this have to do with the discussion? Ad hominem maybe?


I am in agreement. Please help us stay on topic. We don't need any more flaming wars. THANKS! :D
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Postby vertigo900 » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:06 pm

Tristan wrote:> They were speeding across the playa at what must have been like 40 to 50 mph it was ridiculous they could have killed someone.

yes, that's correct. i saw them going really very fast on the playa during this operation. i don't think it was justified by the possible crime they were dealing with.


I was photographing the temple sunrise on sunday morning and also saw this. I was quite shocked at their driving speeds as well!

Also thanks for sharing the photos!
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Postby gyre » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:35 pm

Those of you that witnessed this, especially the speeding, need to file formal complaints with the org and law enforcement.
It wouldn't hurt to contact media and other legal groups.
You never know when this may be useful to someone.
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Postby troyds » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:08 pm

I swear 7 o’clock was a main corridor for the police. There was a giant boombox art car parked off and on every day by at the end of 7 and Esplanade and there were like 3 BLM Ranger vehicles at one time just hanging around the art car? It was almost like they were harassing their car. Maybe they showed up to watch the topless dancing on the top of it or something? I thought that there were an excessive amount of cops on the playa this year. It was visually distracting from the art, IMO. I think that they should have to decorate their vehicles. And some of them were driving on the Esplanade where people were walking. I saw that a couple of times.

Also, on Saturday two four wheelers and a Ranger vehicle were speeding across the playa toward 9 o’clock at 40mph or better. I think that was late morning or early afternoon. I thought that it was unsafe.

I never had any other issues with them.
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Postby gyre » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:34 pm

Look out for police "art" cars.
Hard to tell with some of the party barges, I know.
Look for tags.

I've nearly been hit by police vehicles with their lights off before.
They were just driving fast.
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Postby wedeliver » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:44 pm

vertigo900 wrote:
Tristan wrote:> They were speeding across the playa at what must have been like 40 to 50 mph it was ridiculous they could have killed someone.

yes, that's correct. i saw them going really very fast on the playa during this operation. i don't think it was justified by the possible crime they were dealing with.


I was photographing the temple sunrise on sunday morning and also saw this. I was quite shocked at their driving speeds as well!

Also thanks for sharing the photos!


I am waiting to see better photo's then the cropped pics with someone hands in front probably not handcuffed as claimed. So Vert, you were out taking pics.. don't tell me you frooze up and didn't think to photograph racing BLM and Sheriff cars. Damn
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Postby Tristan » Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:39 pm

another witness of this police action commented here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/loupiote/2850272046/

> the cropped pics with someone hands in front probably not handcuffed

yes, you are probably right, the person was likely not handcuffed on this photo, because of the hand position. but this person was not a guy randomly sitting there and resting leasurely on the playa.
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undercover cop?

Postby epic » Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:27 pm

We were camped at 8:30 at A this year and a neighbor girl, early 20's, calling herself Eden with a fresh tattoo on her chest asked me for E as her opening conversation. I told her I didnt have any. I saw her for a couple of more days and then she left. Was she an undercover?
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Postby gyre » Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:39 pm

Could be or just utterly clueless.
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Postby vertigo900 » Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:44 am

wedeliver wrote:
vertigo900 wrote:
Tristan wrote:> They were speeding across the playa at what must have been like 40 to 50 mph it was ridiculous they could have killed someone.

yes, that's correct. i saw them going really very fast on the playa during this operation. i don't think it was justified by the possible crime they were dealing with.


I was photographing the temple sunrise on sunday morning and also saw this. I was quite shocked at their driving speeds as well!

Also thanks for sharing the photos!


I am waiting to see better photo's then the cropped pics with someone hands in front probably not handcuffed as claimed. So Vert, you were out taking pics.. don't tell me you frooze up and didn't think to photograph racing BLM and Sheriff cars. Damn


I wish I got shots of that. I was shooting large format panos of the Sunday morning temple sunrise and a little ways away from the LEO frenzy. In hindsight, I should have dropped what I was doing and investigated. A lesson to me. I also realize the limations of still photography. And in order to properly document LEO behaviors I must add a digicam to the arsenal along with some forms for witnesses.

In regards to Tristan's 3 pics...
http://flickr.com/photos/loupiote/tags/leo/

From my experienced eye the shot with the deputies standing around the sitting burner was taken with a telephoto shot @ 130-170mm. I doubt it's a crop.

However, by the DSC numders, there were other shots taken during this time period. Tristan, if you have other photos, please post them. Thank again for your input and sharing!

DSC08809
DSC08810
DSC08817

After incidents like the one in Tampa ten years ago, most people are handcuffed w/ hands behind them; handcuffed or nor this guy is obviously being detained.
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What I've learned from all of this

Postby sun4all » Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:22 pm

We've never had a problem with LEOs on the playa. Reading the posts on here tells me that how we act at Burning Man has a lot to do with avoiding LEO problems.

1. We don't hang around the large art/party cars or the rave/dance tents. This seems to be where MOST of the LEO action happens

2. We don't smoke pot and if we smell it, we go in the opposite direction...FAST.

3. If we do decide to party, we are very discrete about it.

4. If we sense that there is any type of trouble in a crowd such as a fight or drug bust, again, we head in the opposite direction.

Burning Man is really all about the art for us. If we really want to party our brains out, we can go do that in much more comfortable climes when we get back to the default world!

/rant
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Postby gyre » Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:24 am

How about quiet private camps?
The Center Cafe?
Ever go to the man?
How about back streets?

You must never leave your tent.
Quit kidding yourself.
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Re: What I've learned from all of this

Postby vertigo900 » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:41 am

sun4all wrote:We've never had a problem with LEOs on the playa. Reading the posts on here tells me that how we act at Burning Man has a lot to do with avoiding LEO problems.

1. We don't hang around the large art/party cars or the rave/dance tents. This seems to be where MOST of the LEO action happens...


It funny, cuz in my 20 years of photography, 9 years on the playa, the only time I've been accused by a LEO my camera battery was a pot pipe was in my quiet, private camp in BRC. I do not subscribe to the whole "if you sleep with dogs, you get flees" attitude. The LEOs are harassing 100s and intimating 1000s on the playa.

Our silence = consent
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Postby Teo del Fuego » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:17 am

I've never really noticed LEOs on the playa but perhaps I've been lucky or maybe because I read a lot on eplaya before attending my first time in 2005.

I find it way too easy for folks who do drugs to simpy do them in their own tent or dome before heading out onto the open playa. Not sure why folks feel the need to do drugs on the playa or at the big dance camps.

I camped with Mischief Camp at 7:45 and Esplanade and we did have a LEO parked right outside our camp for hours on end. We surmised he was looking to see if he could bust us for distribution of pornography to minors as our kiosks out front were labeled "Free Porn." Of course, all our kiosks delivered was a healthy shock to anyone trying to log on to the computers.
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Postby Intubater69 » Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:28 am

gyre wrote:How about quiet private camps?
The Center Cafe?
Ever go to the man?
How about back streets?

You must never leave your tent.
Quit kidding yourself.


I smelled pot quite alot, both out on the playa and walking the streets, mostly at night.

How did I know it was pot? I, er, um, ahem, you know, just surmised it was pot. Yeah, thats it... :lol:
I get to drive the ambulance how fast?!!

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Postby somekind » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:06 am

Shoot me if I wrote this b4, but I was scrutinized by a ranger at the Opulent Temple. I was prepping my earplugs for insertion, but he was looking for drugs. Maybe he figured I was undercover.
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If someone asks you for drugs, it's a cop.
If someone fucks you for drugs, it's not a cop.
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