Wheres the money go?

No matter your skills or interests, there's a way for you to participate in the creation and manifestation of Black Rock City, both at the event and year-round.

Postby cutmeoffandcallmeshorty » Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:44 pm

Don't tell them about the secret radar perimeter watch coupled to the star wars laser vaporizer guns.


Good onya Tom, Now they know all the secrets,
Steely Seal is gunna be really fuckin pissed with you dude! Come by and I will give you some Infrared Glow sticks to hang around your neck.
This will blur out his IR Scope and may be the only thing that will save you from him and his 5.56 asswhipin when you least expect it .

Tom, You know he's a sick Bastard and enjoys blind shots through the porta potty door. Just like he did in 06 with that belt fed thing. I still don't know what the hell that was but it tore the Porta Loo to shreds and the 3 ply toilet paper perpetrator taking a dump.

On another note, I have volunteered for the Tunnel during Exodus. Im taking Bribes up until August 23rd, PM me for times and Prices for express departures, we all know about the 7 hour delay leaving on Sunday.
Be prepared and shop early.

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Postby Simon of the Playa » Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:56 pm

dude, sneaking in, i mean, c'mon, that is so pre-millenial, sneaking OUT, now that's the shit....


i'm in for the tunnel. do i have to pay a bribe to the coyotes, and should i dress as a mexican for effect?

also, will i get my green card when i reach the bar at bruno's?


questions, questions.
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Zoomorphic is asking common sense questions

Postby epic » Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:21 pm

Zoomorphic is asking common sense rational questions and is attacked by brainwashed cult members who tolerate no dissent, freedom of expression or thinking. At current ticket price its $43+/day, That covers toilets, of which there is a serious shortage. Everything else is supplied by the participant. Which amounts to hundreds $$ in gasoline/transpo costs, equipment and supplies. It is certainly NOT a cheap vacation as one poster implied. Telling someone if they don't like it don't go is just as small minded as saying if you don't like the policies of the current US gov't, move elsewhere.
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Postby ZaphodBurner » Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:24 pm

EspressoDude wrote:
TomServo wrote:Last I heard, Perimeter invested in .50 cals. I wouldn't try sneaking in this year.. Wouldn't worry about bringing food or water..If you can find them, their are some stands that sell pretty reasonably! Also!! Our sponsors, backed out at the last minute!! thats why the high ticket price!


Don't tell them about the secret radar perimeter watch coupled to the star wars laser vaporizer guns.


Dude, that shit was expensive. Between that and the Blackwater contractor fees, it boggles me why people wonder where the money goes.
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vacation prices

Postby epic » Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:52 pm

For 4 people in 2 cars: US national park: total $50 entry fees, $175 camping fees = $225 for 4 for 7 days.
Burning man for 4 for 7 days: $1200.
At both you can buy ice and coffee.
That's no bargain.
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Re: vacation prices

Postby gyre » Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:03 pm

epic wrote:For 4 people in 2 cars: US national park: total $50 entry fees, $175 camping fees = $225 for 4 for 7 days.
Burning man for 4 for 7 days: $1200.
At both you can buy ice and coffee.
That's no bargain.
How much are the permit fees for one to camp on federal land like black rock off season?
As I recall, they were quite high.

How much is that natl park camping for one?
Same price as four?
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Sat Aug 09, 2008 2:02 am

epic, i'm afraid that you havent explored the sliding scale of entry fees and volunteer work to offset the cost of a ticket.

i paid with food stamps this year, and there was no problem.

And NEXT year, which was better, by the way,after the Democrats take back the White House, Burning Man will open it's gates to ALL, even Black People!
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Postby gyre » Sat Aug 09, 2008 2:57 am

Epic
At current ticket price its $43+/day
Most concerts these days charge $43 / hour, and that's for the crappiest seats.
And if they're sold by ticket bastards, all the good seats go to scalpers.
I don't like that and I don't go.
Maybe I just got spoiled by being able to pick my seats for so many years?
Most are boring as hell too.

I wonder how much it would take to persuade the best fire artists in the world to perform by the campfire in that national park for a few people and me, as happened to me in 2006?

Oh, and as much as I hate the playa and it's dust, not one burner has been eaten by a bear out there since 1990.
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Re: vacation prices

Postby BitterDan » Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:16 pm

epic wrote:For 4 people in 2 cars: US national park: total $50 entry fees, $175 camping fees = $225 for 4 for 7 days.
Burning man for 4 for 7 days: $1200.
At both you can buy ice and coffee.
That's no bargain.


Government Funding for National Parks: 2.6 Billion Dollars
Government Funding for Burning Man: 0 Dollars
Listening to people bitch and moan about the price of a ticket: Priceless
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Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:48 pm

And those national parks are underfunded, perhaps as a plan to kill them by neglect.
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Postby gyre » Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:03 pm

When I leave burning man, I always find myself thinking,

Well, I'm still alive!
Now what?




I don't always get that other places.
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Re: Zoomorphic is asking common sense questions

Postby thirt33n » Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:24 pm

epic wrote:Zoomorphic is asking common sense rational questions and is attacked by brainwashed cult members who tolerate no dissent, freedom of expression or thinking. At current ticket price its $43+/day, That covers toilets, of which there is a serious shortage. Everything else is supplied by the participant. Which amounts to hundreds $$ in gasoline/transpo costs, equipment and supplies. It is certainly NOT a cheap vacation as one poster implied. Telling someone if they don't like it don't go is just as small minded as saying if you don't like the policies of the current US gov't, move elsewhere.


'epic'ally delusional.

ya think maybe the ticket price partially pays for trucking in and setting up the logistics of a city that can handle 50,000 ppl and then breaking it down too? don't forget gas prices for all the transportation, insurance, dust water trucks, year round staffing, blah frikkin' blah you dolt?

...sorry. that wasn't the nicest thing to say.
sometimes i just wanna give summa y'all an extra hard "love slap"


p.s. siding with zoomorphic, on this thread, in my opinion, is suicide.
blow.
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Postby thirt33n » Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:36 pm

a further list of "things supplied by the participant"
(in a sarcastic tone)
dedicated to "epic"

the man
street signs and posts
trash fence stakes and orange fence
"public" structures. center camp, arctica, info, ranger stations.
random vehicles and gas
generators electrical routing and fuels for them.....
internet presence
staffing
online ticket sales system


anyone wanna chime in?
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Postby capjbadger » Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:19 pm

You're forgetting the massive amount of money BLM forces us to pay them to use the playa and the other chunk of change they force us to pay for the cops there.

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Postby Medium » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:23 am

I'm still a virgin (but with tickets for 2009 in hand). I guess I can't see traveling 3000 miles to an event without a ticket in hand. Plus I heard that sneaking in would result in my mortal soul being banished to the lowest levels of hell for an eternity of suffering or by 5 years living in Utah, at my own discretion.
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Postby penguin » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:37 pm

Let's see tickets to a major rock concert $150 for maybe 4 hours ($37.50/hour) of amusement/entertainment. Versus let's say $300 for 9 days (or a $1.40/hour). They both provide free toilets, but at the concert you can't bring your own food, your own booze, etc.

I've looked all over the BM website, but darned if I can find the 501(c)3 statement.
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Re: Wheres the money go?

Postby mdmf007 » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:56 pm

Zoomorphic wrote:Okay so I think the whole idea of Burning Man is pretty cool. Work together, make art, love life etc etc. I also like the idea of self reliance and the lack of port-o-potties, over priced food stands etc etc...I was just curious about where all of the money from tickets is going?....


Unfortunately the BMORG is a private LLC and doesnt have to disclose anything - they provide a service, and people take em up on it.
I would like to see them act a little less like a non profit though, without the transparency.
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epic wrote:For 4 people in 2 cars: US national park: total $50 entry fees, $175 camping fees = $225 for 4 for 7 days.
Burning man for 4 for 7 days: $1200.
At both you can buy ice and coffee.
That's no bargain.


your jaunt to the park doesnt include law enforcement, first aid, an airlift helicopter on standby, pyrotechnics, other infrastructure.

So I still see it as a bargain.
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Postby jkisha » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:29 pm

This whole thread is rediculous. A company puts on an event. They sell tickets. You either buy them and go; or you don't. End of story. If the tickets are too expensive--or you feel that they are too expensive, you just don't go. This is a free country, so you do have the right to bitch about it, but it won't do any good. Hell, I've gone out to dinner for two and spent way more than the cost of two BM tickets. Some people chose to gamble away thousands of dollars. Do it or don't; just stop bitching about it. This isn't a democracy, it's a business.

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Postby Oldguy » Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:42 am

Tater tots and Jimmy Dean sausage links ( original flavor ), oh, and depreciation on 60 40-foot trailors, the ranch, rental on potties, fees to gubment, and other stuff like printing, gasohol, replacment tent fabric, wood, office rents, supplies and incidentals... and more tater tots.
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Postby Steven bradford » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:39 am

Tots!

and


Obama!
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Postby Sham » Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:31 am

jkisha wrote:This whole thread is rediculous. A company puts on an event. They sell tickets. You either buy them and go; or you don't. End of story. If the tickets are too expensive--or you feel that they are too expensive, you just don't go. This is a free country, so you do have the right to bitch about it, but it won't do any good. Hell, I've gone out to dinner for two and spent way more than the cost of two BM tickets. Some people chose to gamble away thousands of dollars. Do it or don't; just stop bitching about it. This isn't a democracy, it's a business.

JK

What he said! BMorg's only real issue is keeping the price resonable so they sell tickets every year and people coming back. It's basic supply and demand and if you feel the price is too high, then don't buy the ticket. If ticket sales slump, they would be forced to lower the ticket price or end the event.
As it stands, the price is very fair to the majority of the participants and selling lots of tickets is not an issue. Just keep in mind what happened with the price of gasoline and how it dropped when people stopped buying it. It dropped by nearly 2/3 and there was nothing the oil companies could do.
As long as people like me think that paying under $300 for a week long event is fair, then the event will continue for years to come. Capitalizm is a wonderful thing!
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Postby mdmf007 » Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:35 am

Lots of Bacon as well and Tofu flavored Bacon
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Postby penguin » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:38 pm

mdmf007 wrote:Lots of Bacon as well and Tofu flavored Bacon


:shock:

Tofu flavored bacon?!? What's next, tofu flavored tequila?!?
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Postby wedeliver » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:39 pm

jkisha wrote:This whole thread is rediculous. A company puts on an event. They sell tickets. You either buy them and go; or you don't. End of story. If the tickets are too expensive--or you feel that they are too expensive, you just don't go. This is a free country, so you do have the right to bitch about it, but it won't do any good. Hell, I've gone out to dinner for two and spent way more than the cost of two BM tickets. Some people chose to gamble away thousands of dollars. Do it or don't; just stop bitching about it. This isn't a democracy, it's a business.

JK


I'm not really trying to get involved in this discussion. I just wanted to add "food for thought".

This camping trip we love so much really could not exist without the volunteer's. I have no idea the size of the staff, including temp employement during the burn, but without the volunteer's it would be a lot different.

So, they have an interest in how much profit is made by the Owners. Perhaps there is enough to pay them some small pittance. Now I only suggest this for the sake of discussion on what is fair.
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Postby wedeliver » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:48 pm

cutmeoffandcallmeshorty wrote:Don't tell them about the secret radar perimeter watch coupled to the star wars laser vaporizer guns.
....


Did we discuss the ramifications of the following.

they only have our safety in mind.


http://www.burningman.com/news/080401_security.html

San Francisco, CA -- Black Rock City LLC has announced a series of security improvements for Burning Man, the yearly counter-culture arts event it hosts in the Black Rock Desert of Nevada. The new measures represent "a wholesale improvement to Burning Man's existing security plan," explained Burning Man Founder Larry Harvey. "Now, before everybody goes and gets their panties in a twist, let me just say that this is completely irrespective of, unrelated to, and independent of Senator McCain's announcement that he'll be participating in Burning Man this year," said Harvey. "No, really!" he added, noticing a reporter's smirk.

The first of these new measures is that Burning Man's Gate and Perimeter staff will be replaced by a TSA crew recruited from New York's John F. Kennedy Airport. "This crew is particularly expert in looking intimidating, waving wands, and grimacing ... and they seem to have a penchant for body cavity searches, which our market research team has told us fits nicely into our participants' interest demographic," said Harvey. All gels and fluids, including water and breast milk, will need to be left at the Gate, or carried into the event in no larger than 3oz. plastic bottles. Participants are reminded that casual jokes will absolutely not be tolerated at the Gate, and will result in a full interrogation and body cavity search for everybody in your vehicle. "No, not the sexy kind," warned Harvey. "You should be so lucky."


The second of these measures is a 10-foot tall, electrified border fence surrounding the event site, topped by spirals of glitter-encrusted razor wire. Ravers are reminded that the glittery razor wire should be avoided regardless of how pretty it may look. In fact, ravers are generally reminded that pretty things can kill you too.

The Burning Man Project will also be installing a fully automated missile defense system, complete with radio-controlled, laser guided surface-to-air missile bays located on each of the corners of Black Rock City, and secreted beneath the Man. Participants are asked to generally avoid these, and at the very least to not push the big red launch button located on the front face of the launch pad, down there at the bottom right, next to the words "Launch Button". Additionally, participants accustomed to using radio-controlled devices on playa are asked to kindly refrain from doing so this time around, if you don't mind.


The most important of these important safety measures, though, will be a marked increase in the use of caution tape throughout Black Rock City, securing sensitive areas of particular interest. Caution tape should not be crossed, lest you risk grave danger. Very, very grave danger. If necessary, go all the way around it to reach your destination ... it might be somewhat inconvenient, but Jiffy Lube Camp will still be there waiting for you. This is for your own good.

"And for the love of all that's holy, if you see a sign with a circle-slash in it, just DON'T DO IT," shouted Harvey. "We're here to serve your best interest, so why wouldn't you trust us? If you don't trust us, you're clearly against us, and want them to win." Harvey would not elaborate on whom exactly "they" are, though experts speculate this is a reference to shirtcockers, widely seen as the terrorists of the playa. Either way, Burning Man participants will inevitably trust, and submit to Larry's superior judgment.

These innovative new measures represent a comprehensive improvement to Burning Man's previous security plan, which had been "sort of scribbled on a napkin that was accidentally left under somebody's cocktail, and all the ink ran and we couldn't read it anymore," said Harvey. "That was, what, '97?" he shrugged.

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Postby jkisha » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:52 pm

wedeliver wrote:
jkisha wrote:This whole thread is rediculous. A company puts on an event. They sell tickets. You either buy them and go; or you don't. End of story. If the tickets are too expensive--or you feel that they are too expensive, you just don't go. This is a free country, so you do have the right to bitch about it, but it won't do any good. Hell, I've gone out to dinner for two and spent way more than the cost of two BM tickets. Some people chose to gamble away thousands of dollars. Do it or don't; just stop bitching about it. This isn't a democracy, it's a business.

JK


I'm not really trying to get involved in this discussion. I just wanted to add "food for thought".

This camping trip we love so much really could not exist without the volunteer's. I have no idea the size of the staff, including temp employement during the burn, but without the volunteer's it would be a lot different.

So, they have an interest in how much profit is made by the Owners. Perhaps there is enough to pay them some small pittance. Now I only suggest this for the sake of discussion on what is fair.


Interisting point. I volunteer myself. Imagine how much more the tickets would be without them. After all--the owners of BM, Inc. are going to have to make a profit one way or the other.

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Postby betrdanevr » Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:35 pm

When I first heard about Burning Man and saw the ticket prices, I was astounded. For about 30 minutes. Until I started talking to a friend and realizing what all was involved. And for all the reasons stated by the burners above.
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Postby Igneouss » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:24 am

I'm gonna take two sides on this issue cause it's always more fun to take multiple sides :)

side 1) I've worked with a 2000 person camping event for years. When you work on the inside you develop a serious appreciation for how costly and difficult it is to run this sort of event. Trust me, tickets are resonably priced at BM. I can imagine the effort that goes into simply filling out the BLM forms/meetings/negotiations. Same for law enforcement. Local relations... etc. It's WAY more than providing porta potties.

side 2) Only the six owners of Black Rock City LLC know what happens to the money. I don't really care what sort of corporate structure they have adopted but it would seem prudent to publish some verifiable accounting. BECAUSE, if they are taking big profits then what would the thousands of volunteers think? With revenues upwards of $12 million/year there is a lot of cream that could be skimmed off. Play devils advocate: would you trust anyone with $12 million dollars and no one looking over their shoulder? Would you volunteer so that someone else can take a huge paycheck home? Would you volunteer if you couldn't tell if someone else was raking big bucks?

ps. I've already bought my tickets and filled out my volunteer app. :)

cheers
Basic b/e analysis:
2005 $243K
06 $855K
07 $1.0M
08 $1.1M
09 $0
10 $1.1M
11 $1.2M
12 $1.2M
That’s $6.8M that thousands of volunteers deserve to know about. Capitalism is alive at BM. Tickets are the commodity. Others have estimated higher profits.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:39 pm

So are the figures they do publish inadequate for you?
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Postby Igneouss » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:09 am

Please keep in mind that I am playing devil's advocate, ok?

The published figures would be inadequate to anyone that is thinking critically. For starters, as revenues have grown the level of detail has dropped to 0. I believe the most recent afterburn #s are from 2006 for example.

For second, I bet you would be hard pressed to find any other organization that handles millions of dollars without any independent oversight.

For third, as an LLC they pay taxes. It would be a simple task to post the tax returns along with any sort of audit reports that exist.

Why isn't BRC, LLC chartered as a charitable organization? That's really the big question. It seems odd that an operation that exists only because thousands of people volunteer an enormous amount of labor would strive to be transparent.

Now back to the flip side....

There is clearly a small group of people who manage all this very effectively. Those people should be compensated well. I might have criticisms about transparancy but I am aware of the level of effort required to make something like BM happen. It is enormous.
Basic b/e analysis:
2005 $243K
06 $855K
07 $1.0M
08 $1.1M
09 $0
10 $1.1M
11 $1.2M
12 $1.2M
That’s $6.8M that thousands of volunteers deserve to know about. Capitalism is alive at BM. Tickets are the commodity. Others have estimated higher profits.
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