Fuck Flag Burning! Let's argue about "assault" rif

Fuck Flag Burning! Let's argue about "assault" rif

Postby TomServo » Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:08 am

Now here's a debate I prefer!
Pro A.R.: What kind do you own? Why Do you own it? Do you own it? Do you think Assault Rifles are "deadlier" than hunting rifles? Share your thoughts!

Anti A.R.: Why do you feel they've no place in society? Are you a firearm owner? What do you know about Assault Rifles? What's your idea for banning guns, in this country? Share your thoughts!

Feel free to add your own questions.

FEEL FREE DAMMIT! THATS AN ORDER!
anything worth doing..is worth overdoing

Vor Gebrauch Sprengkapsel einsetzen
User avatar
TomServo
 
Posts: 6017
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:17 pm
Location: Marshalltown, Iowa
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: BloodBath&Beyond

NTHB

Postby ZEFEX » Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:51 am

Need To have Basis

Why do you feel you need one?

There are many tools i dont have, simply because i dont need them. If i have the need for one i can go buy one, thats how it should be.

IMO i dont think people should have them unless they know how to fully disasemble them. I wouldnt trust a person who doesnt know how to disasemble his weapon.

IMO only gun smiths and paranoid phobes should keep them.
User avatar
ZEFEX
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:19 pm

Postby TomServo » Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:39 am

I don't need one. I don't need a hunting rifle. But I have the right to own both. Personally, I hate hunting..though, admittedly I eat meat. Hypocritical yes..but if I had to I would. thing is..why do you think an assault rifle is any more dangerous than any other? just curious
anything worth doing..is worth overdoing

Vor Gebrauch Sprengkapsel einsetzen
User avatar
TomServo
 
Posts: 6017
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:17 pm
Location: Marshalltown, Iowa
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: BloodBath&Beyond

Postby TomServo » Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:43 am

Im not a gunsmith..nor am I a paranoid phobe..I just like shooting muppets
anything worth doing..is worth overdoing

Vor Gebrauch Sprengkapsel einsetzen
User avatar
TomServo
 
Posts: 6017
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:17 pm
Location: Marshalltown, Iowa
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: BloodBath&Beyond

Postby TomServo » Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:43 am

...and an AK-47 does the job.
anything worth doing..is worth overdoing

Vor Gebrauch Sprengkapsel einsetzen
User avatar
TomServo
 
Posts: 6017
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:17 pm
Location: Marshalltown, Iowa
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: BloodBath&Beyond

Postby TomServo » Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:06 am

ZEFEX...breakdown is as follows... Remove reciever cover, pull out return spring, pull out bolt and bolt carrier, flip switch at right side of trunnion, and pull off gas tube. Wanna know how to put n a pistol grip set? Persuant to California legal code 922...
anything worth doing..is worth overdoing

Vor Gebrauch Sprengkapsel einsetzen
User avatar
TomServo
 
Posts: 6017
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:17 pm
Location: Marshalltown, Iowa
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: BloodBath&Beyond

Postby TomServo » Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:19 am

ok ZEFEX im a little drunk..you make a fair point! I wouldnt trust anyone who couldn't break one down either..nor would I trust anyone in my condition..thats why it's locked up. BUT! I stand by my right to own one..carry on
anything worth doing..is worth overdoing

Vor Gebrauch Sprengkapsel einsetzen
User avatar
TomServo
 
Posts: 6017
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:17 pm
Location: Marshalltown, Iowa
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: BloodBath&Beyond

Postby TomServo » Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:20 am

ok ZEFEX im a little drunk..you make a fair point! I wouldnt trust anyone who couldn't break one down either..nor would I trust anyone in my condition..thats why it's locked up. BUT! I stand by my right to own one..carry on
anything worth doing..is worth overdoing

Vor Gebrauch Sprengkapsel einsetzen
User avatar
TomServo
 
Posts: 6017
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:17 pm
Location: Marshalltown, Iowa
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: BloodBath&Beyond

Buzzword Rifles

Postby gyre » Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:22 am

There is no such thing as a semi-automatic assault rifle.

An assault rifle is by definition a low or medium power weapon with automatic capability, usually with a short barrel.
The new buzzword political term is horseshit and has little connection with reality.
And automatic weapons are closely regulated.
The prices have been artificially driven so high as to make it a toy for the rich only.

There have been some exceptions with higher power than the kalashnikov 7.62 by 39, but they are pretty useless for automatic fire unless on a tripod.
The difference between a hunting rifle and an assault rifle is that most assault rifles are too underpowered for hunting.
In single fire, a 7.62 is an effective small game round.
The kalashnikov is generally low accuracy, but incredibly reliable.

I'm building an FN FAL from a kit in single fire.
It uses a 308 and was a failure as an assault rifle, but is extraordinarily well designed and a very accurate rifle.
It makes a superb hunting rifle as designed.
It was too heavy and expensive for an assault rifle.

I'll be building an AK47 from a kit too.
It has the cheapest ammo other than 9mm and is fun to shoot with such low power.
There is almost no kick and that is always a prerequisite for an assault rifle.

Hunting rifles are typically 308 or 30.06 or larger.
It is much preferable to be shot by an "assault rifle" round than a hunting rifle, but anything larger than an M16 round is dangerous with a full length barrel.
Barrel length is regulated under the extremely complex tax rules in place now for "assault" weapons.
Longer barrels produce more power generally, and the rules specify a minimum length.
Most of the rules do nothing but make costs much, much higher and many people are getting very rich from this.

It is pretty hysterical that anyone was ever gullible enough to believe that people who smuggle drugs across the border for a living would be affected by gun restrictions on legal purchasers.

If you want a high power weapon, get a WWII 30.06.
Powerful and deadly, doesn't cost thousands of dollars and is not an "assault rifle".
Civilian marksmanship use of weapons like that is why Japan never seriously pursued the idea of a beachhead in the usa.
The statement was "We are not so stupid as to march into quicksand".
User avatar
gyre
 
Posts: 15346
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: ΦάÏ

Postby Toolmaker » Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:54 am

Image
Image
Image
Image
Toolmaker
 
Posts: 2512
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:44 pm

Postby **burn** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:43 am

Love this thread!

As a woman I do not intend to allow someone to enter my home uninvited (already proving themselves dishonorable), do what they will to me and my family,
cross my fingers for luck that they leave me alive, get my probably injured ass to a phone, listen to elevator music on 911,
wait for the cops while living in the disgustingness of what the criminal did, go thru the cops interrogation,
further having my private property and life rifled (no pun) thru some more, go to the hospital and deal with more paperwork and the insurance goatrope,
deal with the Orwellian courts hoping the criminal showed up, that he gets the guilty verdict, that he shows for sentencing, and that he doesn't get out.

Or, simply, I can shoot his ass once he steps into my house. Done. No other women or families have to go thru this shit ever again from this asshole.

A book by John R Lott Jr entitled More Guns, Less Crime has a bit in there about interviewing criminals while incarcerated. The synopsis of a series of questions was their stance that once a state allows for concealed carry they ususally move to a state that does not have self defense laws as it allows them to have a more productive career, not to mention life.

Stepping slowly off my soapbox...
burnbaby
Risky

The Booby Bar in
http://terminalvillage.com
**burn**
 
Posts: 805
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:19 pm
Location: carousing in the corner

Postby CapSmashy » Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:26 am

Current collection of the commonly misnamed "assault rifle". I prefer the term military styled civilian sport rifle.

AR-15 variants:
1 Smith and Wesson M&P 15 tactical. Lots of bells and whistles.
4 Bushmasters (2 carbine, 1 24" varmit, 1 bullpup)
1 DPMS
1 Oly AR pistol
2 Frakenbuilds

FN-FAL, Imbel build

Springfields:
SOCOM 16
M-14
M1 Garand

Iver Johnson M-1 Carbine

Ruger Mini 14




I have them because I like collecting firearms and they are an excellent rainy day investment item.

I enjoy competitiveand recreational shooting.

I am a firm believer in concept that you must have the means, the tools and the focus to be able to defend yourself and your family in an efficient, capable manner. Dialing 911 and hoping they show up in a timely manner is not what I want to stake my life or the lives of my family on.


As for the paranoid comment...

Do you carry a spare tire in your car? Its not paranoia, its being prepared. Its radical self reliance on yourself to protect yourself if the need arises.

Hunting rifle vs sport rifle in terms of lethality. A single shot 22 rifle in the hands of a person that has trained with that weapon can be far more deadly that a novice with an AR and a 30 round box.
Playawaste Raiders cordially invites you to suck it.
User avatar
CapSmashy
 
Posts: 1917
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:29 pm
Location: Awesome Camp 2.0
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Terminal City://404 Village Not Found

Postby AntiM » Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:49 am

I have mylarry's 12 gauge shotgun under the bed, long barrel, but I can hit things with it. Well, it is a shotgun, not that difficult. He has a beautiful Winchester 30-30 and a 22 semi-auto rifle. I want to get him a handgun, but can't pin him down on what he'd really like.

His sister has a chrome .357 and has won competitions with it. She's an itty-bitty woman with a Very Large Gun. Oh the other hand, I don't shoot well, so a shotgun it is.

On the Fourth of July, we set up a shade canopy on the front lawn, get out the guns, and Ranger Borderline brings her guns, then we clean them all. A new family tradition. Can't go shooting unless we go all the way up to the ranch, but hey, cleaning guns is patriotic! The neighbors seem to be fascinated.

Hunting? Guns? MyLarry has killed a deer with a knife. You betcha he ate it.
These are not my fuckos.
User avatar
AntiM
Moderator
 
Posts: 16386
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 6:23 am
Location: Top O' the World, Ma!
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Anti M's Home for Wayward Art

Postby Ugly Dougly » Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:07 am

Any semi-auto can be made to shoot auto; the question is whether you can maintain control over it and keep the shots on target.

FN-FAL, oh yeah, pure rifle porn, baby.
Please to visit PAGE TWO.
User avatar
Ugly Dougly
 
Posts: 16308
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:31 am
Location: San Jose, CA
Burning Since: 1996

Postby gyre » Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:20 am

AntiM wrote:Hunting? Guns? MyLarry has killed a deer with a knife. You betcha he ate it.
Holy crap!
Some deer are dangerous.

Up close a knife is far more deadly than a gun.
Ask any cop.
It has been said that if someone is running at you with a knife and gets within ten feet of you before you fire, it's too late.

My martial arts trainer has killed five people in two incidents.
They all had guns pointed at him at the time.
He was unarmed.
A gun only means something when you hit something with it.

Guns are most useful for self defense, because they allow you to act from a distance.
No handgun can match a rifle in power or range.

The best book I have seen for self defense is the military manual Kill or Be Killed.
That goes for unarmed combat as well.

There is a story about driving up to the ticket gate and being met by someone with a rifle.
They asked him if it was loaded.
He looked at them, puzzled.
"If it wasn't loaded, it would be a stick."
User avatar
gyre
 
Posts: 15346
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: ΦάÏ

Postby AntiM » Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:29 am

There was a tree down across the deer path; the deer had to duck under to go through. Larry descented with pine boughs (or some such) and hid by the split truck and waited. A buck came through, he grabbed the antlers, pulled the neck taut and stuck a knife in the deer's throat. He let it go to thrash while it bled to death. Little whitetail, about 150 pounds.
These are not my fuckos.
User avatar
AntiM
Moderator
 
Posts: 16386
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 6:23 am
Location: Top O' the World, Ma!
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Anti M's Home for Wayward Art

Postby CapSmashy » Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:40 am

Ugly Dougly wrote:Any semi-auto can be made to shoot auto; the question is whether you can maintain control over it and keep the shots on target.

FN-FAL, oh yeah, pure rifle porn, baby.


Sure, they can be, but most conversions of this nature are beyond the average gun owner.

It is also not worth the federal criminal prosecution associated with such illegal modifications because if they catch you with an illegally modified weapon, its pretty much a slam dunk case.

And having fired some full auto 308's, they just are not worth it for practical applications.
Playawaste Raiders cordially invites you to suck it.
User avatar
CapSmashy
 
Posts: 1917
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:29 pm
Location: Awesome Camp 2.0
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Terminal City://404 Village Not Found

Postby TomServo » Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:47 am

Deer? Shit try Elk...my truck was charged by an elk. I DIDN"T honk, but I think my Jake brakes caught it's attention. Sitting in a Freightliner, its head was even with my window. Scared the living shit out of me. And No, I didn't stop to save the meat. My dad asked me this...didn't want to meet her friends.

I have a Hungarian Sa-85M AKM variant. I'm told, is the best of stamped reciever AK's. What I don't get is the shorter gas tube....anyone know of this? Is about as accurate as my old Romanian..not nearly as accurate as my old Swedish Mauser. DAMN! that thing was accurate!

Not an "assault" rifle...actually not even a rifle...my other fave is my Noble double barrel shotgun. It was my grandfathers. My dad shortened it..to 1/4 inch legal overall length and 1/8 inch legal barrel length. Really only good for home defense, but fun to pay with. In a drunken stupor, he broke his fingers firing slugs out of both barrels....using one hand.heehee
anything worth doing..is worth overdoing

Vor Gebrauch Sprengkapsel einsetzen
User avatar
TomServo
 
Posts: 6017
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:17 pm
Location: Marshalltown, Iowa
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: BloodBath&Beyond

Postby TomServo » Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:15 am

I hate this.. ok..AntiM have him try an HK .45 happy little handgun, with low recoil
anything worth doing..is worth overdoing

Vor Gebrauch Sprengkapsel einsetzen
User avatar
TomServo
 
Posts: 6017
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:17 pm
Location: Marshalltown, Iowa
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: BloodBath&Beyond

Postby Bin Noddin » Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:48 pm

Rifle I loved best to shoot - an ancient 30-40 Krag. Its owner would never part with it, though.
"I have gobs of mustard and ketchup on the front of my shirt, which does not make me a hot dog." Sam A. McKeen
User avatar
Bin Noddin
 
Posts: 2992
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Silver Spring, MD

Postby thirt33n » Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:28 pm

i have a ray-gun
blow.
User avatar
thirt33n
 
Posts: 1036
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:13 pm
Location: north
Burning Since: 2002
Camp Name: Playa Name "Crux"

Postby ragabashpup » Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:22 pm

I do not own a gun and will not allow them in my house. They scare the SHIT out of me. One of my odd little fears. I don't care if someone else owns a gun I just don't want one. Give me a baseball bat anyday.
User avatar
ragabashpup
 
Posts: 763
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:27 am
Location: Suck It!

Postby Token » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:13 pm

A baseball bat and a .22 handgun are pretty much the same ...

... unless you are a pro and can hit the sweet spot right behind the ear ...

... all they will do against tough hombres is piss them off.

I personally like the sound of a tactical shotgun pumping in a round. It just screams home defense.

With 16" brick walls I load a slug every other round in our Mossberg 590.
User avatar
Token
 
Posts: 2302
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 2:55 pm
Location: Gold Country, CA
Burning Since: 2001

Postby CapSmashy » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:19 pm

ragabashpup wrote:I do not own a gun and will not allow them in my house. They scare the SHIT out of me. One of my odd little fears. I don't care if someone else owns a gun I just don't want one. Give me a baseball bat anyday.


I hate hearing things like this. Part of my default life is as a firearm's instructor for security, police and on movie sets.

If its something you are comfortable discussing, we can talk over stiff drinks under the Boobs. :)
Playawaste Raiders cordially invites you to suck it.
User avatar
CapSmashy
 
Posts: 1917
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:29 pm
Location: Awesome Camp 2.0
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Terminal City://404 Village Not Found

Postby ragabashpup » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:26 pm

Smashy I have no problem discussing it at all so we will certainly have a talk. Maybe you can convince me that they arent completly cold machines of doom ;)
User avatar
ragabashpup
 
Posts: 763
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:27 am
Location: Suck It!

Postby thirt33n » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:37 pm

guns, drinks, boobs.

sweet
blow.
User avatar
thirt33n
 
Posts: 1036
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:13 pm
Location: north
Burning Since: 2002
Camp Name: Playa Name "Crux"

Postby CapSmashy » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:54 pm

ragabashpup wrote:Smashy I have no problem discussing it at all so we will certainly have a talk. Maybe you can convince me that they arent completly cold machines of doom ;)


Awesome. I look forward to it. :)
Playawaste Raiders cordially invites you to suck it.
User avatar
CapSmashy
 
Posts: 1917
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:29 pm
Location: Awesome Camp 2.0
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Terminal City://404 Village Not Found

Postby MikeVDS » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:54 pm

I mostly trust the police in my area to enforce our laws, but I don't trust them to be there in 30 seconds if needed and I don't trust every person in any profession to be honest. I'm not sure why anyone would.
Image
User avatar
MikeVDS
 
Posts: 1844
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:10 pm
Location: Tiki Fuckos, Upland CA

Postby **burn** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:24 pm

If you choose to use your bare hands or a bat, ragabashpup, there are definitely points of the body that will make the difference.
There's a series on Natl Geo channel named FightScience. They recommend the eyes as the number one soft spot. Just an eyelash in the eye will bother someone so if you get your thumbs in there and gouge like you are fighting for your life the perp will usually go defensive allowing you to get away. It takes 56lbs of pressure to burst the eye, so permanent damage is not iminent.
Next softspot is the throat, under the adam's apple.

Yes this is off the oh so wonderful topic of assault rifles etal, so back to it.

I love a good 4" revolver! FN makes excellent SPR rifles. My fave pocket rocket is the Keltec P32. Got some zippity-do-dah ammo to make it self-defense appropriate and it has definite stopping power. Love Leupold optics. And I have a certain je nais ce quoi for bull pups.

Got my CCW and shoot IDPA.

burnbaby
Risky

The Booby Bar in
http://terminalvillage.com
**burn**
 
Posts: 805
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:19 pm
Location: carousing in the corner

Postby gyre » Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:48 pm

Why the 32 over the 380?
I'm planning on adding one of those as soon as convenient with an armalaser on both that and the 9mm.

We recently tested ammo with the P380, as well as a number of other guns.
The 380 wasn't all that impressive.
Then we tried it with the Corbin.
Really dramatic difference with the smaller calibres!
You really don't want to get hit with that round.

8 oz empty and you can wear it in a shirt pocket or a back pocket.
Can't beat that.
User avatar
gyre
 
Posts: 15346
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: ΦάÏ

Next

Return to 2008 Theme

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests