Black Rock City Address System Unveiled

No matter your skills or interests, there's a way for you to participate in the creation and manifestation of Black Rock City, both at the event and year-round.

Finding Camps is:

Good
21
48%
Bad
7
16%
Indifferent
16
36%
 
Total votes : 44

Postby Donna Matrix » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:16 am

Rat Bastard wrote:WTF happened to common sense? Libido Lounge was at 9:10 Estuary. If you want to get complicated we were on the man side. If anything, make the mountain side an odd number. Like Yes, Please across the street from us would be 9:11 Estuary.

Is it that hard or are you that stoned?


Obviously it is that hard because the nubmer one complaint is that people can't find camps. That said, the 2007 WWW book really dumped people's expections because there were no addresses what so ever.

And yes, a lot of people are "dimmed" at the event so structure is important if you want people to remember anything. Besides, this address system was made in conjunction with the BRCPO so they could find their delivery targets. It's a lot easier to train new delivery people if their is some standard to teach them. Last year, there was no standard.

The way I see it is this: We have streets (we could do away with streets if we like). Streets need a standard address system so people can find places (camps) on the streets. There was no address system in place - so we created one that was based on what BM people were already doing - but just standarized it a bit so everybody would fly in formation (for this one little thing about BM - the rest of the stuff people do is still totally free form).

This isn't that big of a deal. It's just a small little "improvement." After all if BM is going to print up the WWW book then at least they could do is have addresses in it so people can find the events they are looking for. WE do want participation - don't we?
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Postby the fire elf » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:32 am

Donna Matrix wrote:This isn't that big of a deal. It's just a small little "improvement." After all if BM is going to print up the WWW book then at least they could do is have addresses in it so people can find the events they are looking for. WE do want participation - don't we?


is there a difference in participation in your eye?

sabertoothed spoor the same as george bush's old shoes?

what where win, when the next a timepunchcard within


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Postby Donna Matrix » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:54 am

fire elf,

I would love to respond but the words have leaps and holes that I just can't traverse. Please repeat in English.
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Postby the fire elf » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:10 am

see if you can find yourself a spoor workshop.
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Postby oneeyeddick » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:28 pm

I've gotten confused in trying to figure out how you get lost at Burning Man when there are street signs.
Please revise, Donna ?
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Postby Toolmaker » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:46 am

I think we should do without the street signs.
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Postby the fire elf » Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:30 am

I think we should do without the street signs.



i think people should be doing within the range of their abilities...

if people can't do what they're attempting, i hope their just practicing.

being content with not trying to be anywhere, thus unable to be lost, seems a good default


the nubmer one complaint is that people can't find camps.
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Postby Donna Matrix » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:09 am

How about no streets? That would eliminate the problem of order. In fact, I think most of the people should just camp at some other camp ground somewhere else - reduce problems that way. Yea, less people - less problems.

Who here is willing to just camp elsewhere - say - like Utah?

[and oneeye - we only have street signs for half a week, on Friday they start disappearing]
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Postby the fire elf » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:20 am

participate your way or no way at all, eh?

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Postby AntiM » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:23 am

Donna Matrix wrote:How about no streets? That would eliminate the problem of order. In fact, I think most of the people should just camp at some other camp ground somewhere else - reduce problems that way. Yea, less people - less problems.

Who here is willing to just camp elsewhere - say - like Utah?

[and oneeye - we only have street signs for half a week, on Friday they start disappearing]


Hey, leave Utah alone, we have enough problems of our own.
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Postby Donna Matrix » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:33 am

AntiM - um... like

Mitt Romney and the Mormon Church

So many threads are bashing Scienctology... should we start in on the Mormons. Personally I think they are way funnier.
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Postby AntiM » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:42 am

No argument there ... you missed the point of my joke. AKA we have enough problems ... aka Mormons. I hate it when I have to explain humor.

Been done to death anyway, and far better by ex-mos. I live in Utah, that should be funny enough.
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Postby Donna Matrix » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:52 am

AntiM - I'm blonde so explaining jokes is sometimes a must with me...

I will try to be more intrepretive in the future. :oops:

Utah is a very beautiful state.
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Postby AntiM » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:55 am

There's a reason I dye my hair! :)
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Postby Toolmaker » Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:31 am

Donna Matrix wrote:How about no streets? That would eliminate the problem of order. In fact, I think most of the people should just camp at some other camp ground somewhere else - reduce problems that way. Yea, less people - less problems.


Great idea, I hear things were much more fun back than with no streets and drive by shooting ranges. When the street came so came the yahoo with no clue.
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Postby Donna Matrix » Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:03 am

I've thought for some time now that BM should be two weeks long. One week of the people who set things up (the participants) and then one week for all the "viewers."

I am planning on spending two week up there this year. How about you guys? I am going to avoid the in/out traffic jam. Come early. Leave late. That way I interact with fewer people during the "off" time.


How long are you going to camp at BM this year?
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Postby AntiM » Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:14 am

Precisely as long as the BLM permit allows, one week. Don't have the time or resources to volunteer with set up, nor the time to volunteer with Exodus or tear down/clean up. So, in Monday and out Monday, just as stipulated.

I can camp in the desert any damn time I please, I do live in one after all.
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Postby Teo del Fuego » Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:42 am

Donna Matrix wrote:I've thought for some time now that BM should be two weeks long.


I couldn't agree more. My favorite part of Burning Man are the first four days before the weekend hordes arrive. The vibe the first part of the week is so incredible. I try to arrive on Saturday, I would arrive earlier if I could.
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Postby Donna Matrix » Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:39 pm

HEY U.... all my playa friends... want to help buy some glow-in-the-dark paint to paint new street signs when they are taken down by souvenior seekers?

Seems cool to me - the paint is quite expensive. Like $200 a gallon. But we don't need much.... the signs are small.
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Postby Rat Bastard » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:51 pm

Creating an address system is foolish in my opinion. It's a waste of time.

Here's why. The amount of addresses that would be wrong would be too much. Last year our camp and our sister camp were placed in a spot directly across from the only camp we both requested to NOT be placed next to. We worked it out and our placement coordinator moved us down the street. Why this slip up happened in the first place, we have no idea.

So it was down to playa info. Not only was they're info wrong but so was the mini map that was in the 9:00 Plaza. I understand that both of these were made pre playa. However, they each had different locations listed for us. So now we had three locations.

Of course I updated everything I could at playa info when I went. I actually went to find some other camps. I thought it would be neat to find our own camp. That's when I noticed all the descrepencies. The camps I was looking for were either not listed, misspelled or had incorrect addresses. (I believe ours was misspelled as well).

I love the concept of playa info. I don't understand how they placement team and playa info can't manage the data of 600 camps. Until this is perfected, or at least improved, evolving a more detailed address system will make no difference, if not make things worse. I think the efforts and the idea are nobel but I think the time and effort would be better served improving the data integrity of Playa Info and communication between them and the Placement Team.

Am I the only one that sees this?
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Postby Barbie » Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:27 pm

Too many Chiefs not enough workers around Playa Info...thats what I found while being a early in volunteer this year...

It was the best two weeks of my LIFE as always...
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Postby Zhust » Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:26 am

Donna Matrix wrote:I've thought for some time now that BM should be two weeks long. One week of the people who set things up (the participants) and then one week for all the "viewers."


It already is. In 2006 I worked on Facing our Fears and we got permission to arrive early and stay late. We arrived on Monday, August 21 — a week before the official start. There were 400 people there. Navigating was a nightmare because streets were marked with little flags and had slightly more tire tracks than non-roads. It was basically empty Playa. Work on the project was brutal, by the way.

By Friday there were something like 2,000 people. And every single one of them was doing something: whether it was setting up a camp or building an art project. I even got a chance to say hello to the people doing the neon for the man while he was lying on the ground — he looks much smaller on the ground.

We finished the project on Monday afternoon — the 28th. Then all these tourists showed up. I was particularly angry on Wednesday for some reason. I looked around at all these people in their sanctioned Playa costumes and couldn't swallow the conformity.

Almost everyone left on Monday, September 4. That night I found some guys with fireproof suits who had a Roman candle war. They said they could barely see out the suits but they managed to not shoot at the crowd that had formed. The whole city was pretty much gone again by the time we finished getting the project taken down. I got a warning from BLM to vacate on Wednesday and I left on Thursday the 7th.

Two and a half weeks on the Playa was a lot for me. It really pushed my limits. Fortunately, post-event, it's easy to get water because most people are dumping it to go home. Unfortunately, Arctica (and worse, the Center Camp cafe) is only selling during the event itself. I was pretty well prepared with non-perishables and foods tolerant of lukewarm refrigeration.

Donna Matrix wrote:I am planning on spending two week up there this year. How about you guys? I am going to avoid the in/out traffic jam. Come early. Leave late. That way I interact with fewer people during the "off" time.


Note also, though, that 2006 was the first year BLM started to crack down on early-arrivers and late-leavers. In 2007 and beyond, to stay on the Playa outside the times of the event you need special permission that's somewhat hard to get — I think the target number of people is around 500 maximum (which was the population a week before Day-1 Monday in 2006).
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Postby pinemom » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:00 am

It is VERY hard to get in that long, without good reasons.
Art or heavy camp infrastructure. Not to mention The blue prints to back it up!

We are a high traffic high profile bar...we get one person in to meet the greeters on wed or thur.
And then a TOTAL of 15 if were lucky on Sat.

There is usually only around 3-4 of us left on Tuesday to do a final de-mooping and removal of footprint.

But were not there early and late to avoid traffic...that would be selfish.
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Postby mdmf007 » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:12 am

I have seen camps in a week ealy to build, but pinemom is right - it is going to be difficult to get all your folks in, a construction crew would be way easier.

see you playa side
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Postby Donna Matrix » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:49 am

WOW - great posts. I read them all in detail.

Um... okay, yea, I will be helping setting up and breaking down a theme camp. I had no idea that BLM had their panties so much in a bunch. They are creepy and getting creepier by the day.

I especially appreciated Rat Bastard's and jaycerochester informative posts. I know last years playa info was unusable (cuz I tried to use it without success). You've pointed out some very important issues to deal with. What to do.... what to do... *scratching my little blonde head*

Thank you again for your imput - it has really got me a-think'in.

Regardless though - I always have a great time at BM. Because of this: Very deep and thoughful discussion. I do think the smartest of the smart attend BM (and I am including the smart-asses as well, as BM would not be BM without them).
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Postby Barbie » Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:29 pm

I would suggest putting your application in NOW if you want to Volunteer... maybe you could help decorate Center Camp or take the pics when they are setting UP... EVERYONE IS WORKING HARD.... its not a big before party...
Not much time to work on your own stuff....
I didn't realize that there was only 500 of us the week before....I FEEL VERY VERY BLESSED....
Mess tent is Fun and the MEAL ARE GREAT !!!!! ITS ALL FUN...
Your body takes a beating being out there that extra week... my hands were sooooo Cracked-BRING GLOVES !!!!!

The Playa is soooo Quiet.. and breath taking :D

DO IT VOLUNTEER ITS GREAT !!!!!!













warning
and don't throw the ball for white dog :evil: :evil:
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Postby philosopher » Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:24 pm

Donna and I will have what we hope is a more or less optimally simple system up on the web soon.

For all the people that don't see the need of it, maybe you don't need it. I promise that neither Donna nor I will lose any sleep about that. Especially when we have so many things to lose sleep over already, like when Fire Elf will finish inventing a picture language that we all intuitively understand and complete the job of making English obsolete. Or whether Ron Paul believes in standardized weights and measures. (Well, do you know if he believes in standardized weights and measures?) Anyway, back to our address plan, the beauty of it is that it works with some detail (such as we are already used to) or a lot of detail.

Just because some people do not see how they will benefit from clearer addressing does not mean nobody should have the benefit of better addressing. There are thousands and thousands of pieces of mail flying around the playa. With about 50,000 people to hunt through, you would think that encouraging people to be more specific than "7:00 somewhere around Looneytunes" would be a good idea on the face of it.

Normally, more complexity means more mistakes are possible, but I think with this system, as Donna suggests, the additonal structure is more likely to eliminate some mistakes. Of course, flat out wrong information defeats any system that depends on it, and that is easy to get when you violate what I think is the ideal of data storage (store active data in one place only and have the mirrors and backups always set up off of that). I don't think we're ever going to see automated address validation, so mistakes will be made. Not a premise that impacts the current proposal.

And while I'm on the subject of irrelevant objections, the screwups in previous years, please recall, were not screwups that had anything to do with the system we are proposing, so citing them is not part of any argument against the plan before us either, and is only marginally relevant because you are still talking about the concept of addresses. Kind of a weak implementation of the principle of the segue, though, don't you think?

So, everybody hold your breath now while we make a few more high-handed decisions about a system nobody has to use.
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Postby Rat Bastard » Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:44 pm

There will be a pop quiz on this on burn night.
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Postby Donna Matrix » Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:55 pm

Rat Bastard wrote:There will be a pop quiz on this on burn night.


If only I could find you on the playa..... do you have a address?

Then it would be pop quizzes all around.... :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby the fire elf » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:03 pm

philosopher wrote: like when Fire Elf will finish inventing a picture language that we all intuitively understand and complete the job of making English obsolete.


more like from first person, i'm attempting to do the blindfolded jedi trick and find the little mechanism beyond perceivable page, while manifesting the experience of coming across media that expresses mood precision and accuracy just beyond the range of what words would accomplish; establishing an experience history from first person that negates linguistic dominance of communication...

little choppy still, though the potential glimmers through on occasion
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