Ending the War?

Ending the War?

Postby mimimona » Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:00 am

I'm wondering if there are any camps that are holding talks, lectures discussions etc on how we can help to end the war in Iraq. We just learned that 190.000 guns were unaccounted for and likely ended up on the insurgent side, TO BE USED AGAINST OUR OWN TROOPS. Now the bossman plans to send another 62 billion in weapons, our US tax dollars, to be distributed in Israel, Iraq and other terrorist hotbeds with no accounting system in place.
They like war. They like to watch it grow.
Like so many people, I call in, I sign petitions, and I watch this helplessly. Given the Burning community's outstanding record with mobilizing for common good (Katrina, for example) I'm wondering if anyone is working on this.
We are 40,000 voters, protesters. If anyone can put a kink in this wretched plan, it's people like us. I realize our mission this year is to green the planet, but ending the war is also, indirectly, a way of doing that. It falls under the greater umbrella of being compassionate to our environment, to our neighbors, to our future.
Please contact me if you know of any goings-on out there.

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Postby MikeVDS » Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:32 am

We just learned that 190.000 guns were unaccounted for and likely ended up on the insurgent side...


Where is that from? I'm assuming that's 190,000 not 190.000 = 190. I thought you were doing European numbers at first then saw you are from CA and wrote "40,000", so now I'm guessing it's a typo. Anyway I have not heard anything about those guns yet and would like to see the article you got that from.
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Re: Ending the War?

Postby Lassen Forge » Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:55 am

mimimona wrote:...how we can help to end the war in Iraq. We just learned that 190.000 guns were unaccounted for and likely ended up on the insurgent side, TO BE USED AGAINST OUR OWN TROOPS.

Now the bossman plans to send another 62 billion in weapons, our US tax dollars, to be distributed in Israel, Iraq and other terrorist hotbeds with no accounting system in place.
They like war. They like to watch it grow.
Like so many people, I call in, I sign petitions, and I watch this helplessly. Given the Burning community's outstanding record with mobilizing for common good (Katrina, for example) I'm wondering if anyone is working on this.
We are 40,000 voters, protesters. If anyone can put a kink in this wretched plan, it's people like us. I realize our mission this year is to green the planet, but ending the war is also, indirectly, a way of doing that. It falls under the greater umbrella of being compassionate to our environment, to our neighbors, to our future.
Please contact me if you know of any goings-on out there.

Peace in the Middle East, to Say the Least.
Ms M


If I may put in a couple suggestions...

(1) QUIT CALLING THEM FUCKING INSURGENTS! They're Iraqi Nationals, fer chrisesakes. Insurgent is a BS American title to make them the enemy, like Kraut or Nip in WW2. Get it? It's THEIR fucking country, we're the fucking GERMANS IN PARIS, or the French in Viet Nam!!! Get it? SEE IT??? FUCK... Americans are so fucking BLIND!!

IRAQ is NOT ours. It's IRAQ's. Let them have it, oil and all! Let them find their own way. NOT OUR WAY, THEIR WAY!!!!

(2) Get our people the FUCK out of there. Its that simple. We've already fucked the pony when it comes to foreign policy there - we're gonna be seen as Nazi Invaders for a looooong time there. GET OUT!!! Let THEM fight the fucking war. We can spend our resources a LOT better on security than fighting a hot war and burning people out and KILLING our own KIDS for some persons' NERO-Esque ambitions of greed and profit.

Like going after the FUCKING real "Terrorists" (what a BS word - how about ENEMY instead!). WE know who they are... Instead of trying to hold on to an oil reserve through military force in Iraq with designs on invading IRAN, go fucking attack the bad guys. Instead of trying to do a Hydraulic Empire version of Hitler's Lebensraum for Profit.

(3) When was the last time YOU were in Iraq? Or the Middle East? Study up on it. Not the US Propaganda arm view but the outside view. And speaking of, Riddle me THIS: Why do we need multiple units (like a shitload of them) in the US military that build and dispense propaganda, and have had the for a number of years now? Not just overseas, but abroad as well?

Terrorist hotbeds? IRAQ AND ISRAEL?? Try... Afghanistan, Timor, aw fuck, a few dozen African countries, etc... QUIT MASTURBATING, AND DEAL WITH THE PROBLEM!

Suggestions - DO SOMETHING. ANYTHING.

Hold camp meetings or whatever. BUT MAKE THEM LEAD TO DOING SOMETHING, not just BS time-wasting talk which plays into the hands of the Nero's.

I'm done here. Thanks for listening.
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Postby redwoodrob » Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:52 pm

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=6407177
npr is one source of the lost weapon info

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/08/ ... index.html
or cnn its not hard to find just hard to fathom

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Postby Badger » Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:02 pm

I'm wondering if there are any camps that are holding talks, lectures discussions etc on how we can help to end the war in Iraq.


Mind if some of us take a break from what we've been dealing with 51 other fucking weeks of the year.

This ain't New College.
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Postby chiefdanfox » Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:36 pm

I think insurgent is a proper term for the native and native employed population mounting an armed insurrection against the national and nationalist employed (or occupational) forces. It is a surely pedantic argument, but the insurgents are most probably not Iraqi nationals.

The term "national" is the real BS American title. It is not clear that the "Iraqi-on-the-street" comprehends nationalism in the same way as those of us from representative republics. It isn't clear that Iraq can boast a nationalist sense if they do not have at least a confederacy, which they do not.

Today they are a bunch of tribes, gangs and warlords, shooting at anything that moves, with a fair amount of effort targeting forces aligned with nationalist ventures. They are not fomenting a revolution, so I suggest the only thing they can be is a fractious insurrection; therefore insurgents.
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Postby Lassen Forge » Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:56 am

Badger wrote:
I'm wondering if there are any camps that are holding talks, lectures discussions etc on how we can help to end the war in Iraq.


Mind if some of us take a break from what we've been dealing with 51 other fucking weeks of the year.

This ain't New College.


Bless ya, Badger!

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Postby goathead » Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:31 am

Mind if some of us take a break from what we've been dealing with 51 other fucking weeks of the year.

This ain't New College.


Yes thank you.

The last thing I want to think about at BM is fucking politics, war, religion, computers, cell phones or any of the other default CRAP....
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Ideas and Actions

Postby mimimona » Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:03 pm

I'd like to thank everyone for their responses. To clarify: It was a typo, 190,000 automatic weapons. here's the link:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f ... 003&sc=828

And thanks to the person who offered up a good working definition of "insurgent", that was helpful.
I'm not claiming to have a really clear picture of what is going on in the middle east and that is precisely the problem, which is why I put up the post in the first place. What is clear to me is that the dehumanization leveled at all Iraqis' as a well as our own troops by the administration is intolerable.
I participate in Burning Man, not as a way to escape my life and my world but to assist me in coping and evolving within it. Admittedly, this is not everyone's view, but then you didn't have to reply either. In the same way that S&M ain't for everybody YOU DON'T HAVE TO PARTICIPATE. You may have no interest in the green theme either, fine, it's a free playa.
I wrote specifically to find people in black rock who are offering concrete solutions, networking, information sources, whatever you got.
If you don't have anything to add to the conversation other than more nastiness, please don't bother to reply. I'm interested in diplomacy, politically and personally and all my BM experience has led me to expect as much on the playa and on this forum.
Sincerely and with Compassion,
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Postby Toolmaker » Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:39 pm

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Postby Teo del Fuego » Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:39 am

Badger wrote:Mind if some of us take a break from what we've been dealing with 51 other fucking weeks of the year.


Couldn't agree more.
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Postby Liverace » Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:36 pm

Badger wrote: Mind if some of us take a break from what we've been dealing with 51 other fucking weeks of the year.


Amen to that. Ain't nothing to be gained by preaching to the converted on the playa.
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Postby falk » Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:20 pm

IIRC, we also supplied them with the explosives they're using to make the IEDs which they then use against us.

When we conquered Iraq, troops were sent to guard not the museums, which were subsequently looted; not the power plants, which were also looted; not the government buildings, which were likewise looted; not even the fucking armory full of 380 tons of explosives which was also -- guess what -- looted. Nope, we sent troops to guard the oil ministry.

So now you know what our real priorities are, and they don't include protecting American soldiers or Iraqi civilians.
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Postby wedeliver » Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:51 am

Badger wrote:Mind if some of us take a break from what we've been dealing with 51 other fucking weeks of the year..


When this was first posted I agreed with Badger above and I did not want to think of the war while on Playa, but..
We/you can try and take a break from whatever we want. Heck, we will be fucking camping in the desert with lots of fun people. Protected and safe we will be.
Our brothers and sisters in Iraq don't get no fucking break. They are not safe.

So, if someone who is coming to the burn has the will and abilities to make a statement about the war, I hope that would be encouraged. If the statement makes me cry....or angry.....
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Postby Teo del Fuego » Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:47 am

I still agree with Badger.

There's folks getting their limbs hacked off in Dafour There's massive oppression in North Korea. There's innocents being routinely slaughtered on a massive scale throughout Iraq. The list goes on and on and on and we are immersed in it day in day out for 51 weeks. What if all our artists made political statements instead of sublime works of art that inspire us, energize us, and give us hope? Well, we'd all be massively depressed navel-gazers.

THIS IS NOT TO SAY IM NOT CONCERNED ABOUT IRAQ OR THE WORLD AROUND ME.

But damn, even Mother Theresa took a day off now and then.
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Postby AntiM » Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:52 am

I am protesting the war by celebrating our American way of life, embracing capitalism as I prepare for my trip, and liberally enjoying alcoholic beverages and loud music on public lands in the company of many fine citizens and visitors.

Then I'm going to return to Utah and vote.

Not that it will make a dent in US international policy, but dang, we need a new mayor in Ogden. I can make a difference at home.
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Postby The Hosh » Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:44 am

Next year's theme should be peace and focus around ending the wars, as they no doubt will still be going on by then.

Everyone always forgets it, but there are TWO wars going on right now, Iraq and Afghanistan.

What with the upcoming election and all, there could be a few more in progress by this time next year.

Although really, you Americans are all a bunch of pussies. You start an illegal war, you take a few losses and then you can't finish it!
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Postby Badger » Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:53 pm

Everyone always forgets it, but there are TWO wars going on right now, Iraq and Afghanistan.


A very US-centric view of things.

Believe me, there are a lot more than just TWO fucking wars going on in the worls at this writing.
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Postby goathead » Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:28 am

A very US-centric view of things.


More Canadian. the other North American White Meat.

Although really, you Americans are all a bunch of pussies. You start an illegal war, you take a few losses and then you can't finish it!


Wondering why the really small font?
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Postby Toolmaker » Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:29 pm

Toolmaker wrote:WANTED:
One gal to play US-Afghan foreign policy LARPG.

I'll be Osama and you can be the cave.



This was not a joke. Who wants to play?
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Postby playajesus » Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:58 am

The Hosh wrote:Although really, you Americans are all a bunch of pussies. You start an illegal war, you take a few losses and then you can't finish it!


Wow, you know, you're so right. I am a pussy. Who knew that this war was a bad idea when it began? Oh yeah, that's right EVERY FUCKING AMERICAN WITH HALF A BRAIN CELL!Why is it that the international community lumps every person in America in the same group with that war mongering ass-hole?

And really, if you want to split hairs, you canadians are just a bunch of pussies who go along with whatever the American government says!
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Postby Badger » Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:19 pm

Will someone please call someone else a Nazi in this thread so it'll end?
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Re: Ending the War?

Postby DVD Burner » Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:54 pm

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:
If I may put in a couple suggestions...

(1) QUIT CALLING THEM FUCKING INSURGENTS! They're Iraqi Nationals, fer chrisesakes. Insurgent is a BS American title to make them the enemy, like Kraut or Nip in WW2. Get it? It's THEIR fucking country, we're the fucking GERMANS IN PARIS, or the French in Viet Nam!!! Get it? SEE IT??? FUCK... Americans are so fucking BLIND!!

IRAQ is NOT ours. It's IRAQ's. Let them have it, oil and all! Let them find their own way. NOT OUR WAY, THEIR WAY!!!!

(2) Get our people the FUCK out of there. Its that simple. We've already fucked the pony when it comes to foreign policy there - we're gonna be seen as Nazi Invaders for a looooong time there. GET OUT!!! Let THEM fight the fucking war. We can spend our resources a LOT better on security than fighting a hot war and burning people out and KILLING our own KIDS for some persons' NERO-Esque ambitions of greed and profit.

Like going after the FUCKING real "Terrorists" (what a BS word - how about ENEMY instead!). WE know who they are... Instead of trying to hold on to an oil reserve through military force in Iraq with designs on invading IRAN, go fucking attack the bad guys. Instead of trying to do a Hydraulic Empire version of Hitler's Lebensraum for Profit.

(3) When was the last time YOU were in Iraq? Or the Middle East? Study up on it. Not the US Propaganda arm view but the outside view. And speaking of, Riddle me THIS: Why do we need multiple units (like a shitload of them) in the US military that build and dispense propaganda, and have had the for a number of years now? Not just overseas, but abroad as well?

Terrorist hotbeds? IRAQ AND ISRAEL?? Try... Afghanistan, Timor, aw fuck, a few dozen African countries, etc... QUIT MASTURBATING, AND DEAL WITH THE PROBLEM!

Suggestions - DO SOMETHING. ANYTHING.

Hold camp meetings or whatever. BUT MAKE THEM LEAD TO DOING SOMETHING, not just BS time-wasting talk which plays into the hands of the Nero's.

I'm done here. Thanks for listening.




Beautiful!

If one really wants to do something, why dont you and as many millionares you know STOP PAYING TAXES.

also, stop asking for impeachment and start asking for TREASON TO BE CHARGED.


Oh, and dont forget the charge of WAR CRIMES.

enjoy your time on the playa. cheers!
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Postby Toolmaker » Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:18 pm

Badger wrote:Will someone please call someone else a Nazi in this thread so it'll end?



Yer a playa nazi. There I said it. Kinetic made me do it.
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