City Block dimensions?

City Block dimensions?

Postby Teo del Fuego » Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:40 am

Im surprised I couldn't find the answer to this in my searches...

what are the dimensions of a Black Rock City block?
From B street to C street is what, 150 Feet?
From 4:00 to 4:30 is how many feet?
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Postby chrispburn » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:02 pm

The esplanade block is 365 deep

the subsequent blocks are 170 ft deep

(roads are usually 30 feet wide - and you may have to subtract some from your theme camp's space to account for that)


Here is the what was written in the Theme Camp announce email on June 8:

BLACK ROCK CITY DESIGN: 2004 + 2006 = 2007

For the last few years we've experimented with fewer concentric roads
and thicker city blocks. This year we're going back to the block
dimensions of 2004. Black Rock City 2007 will have a deep, deep
esplanade block of 365 feet. Succeeding blocks will all be
170 feet deep. These were the block dimensions in 2004 . . . only
this year we're adding more blocks, and more streets.

The general layout, though, will look very much like last year --
with the four plazas (at 3:00, 4:30, 7:30 and 9:00) as well as the
main avenues along 4:30 and 7:30. There will again be double-block
areas for large theme-camps and villages between "C" and "E" Streets,
the same locations as last year.

So, if you can imagine the 2004 Map combined with the 2006 Map, and
add a few more blocks and streets (note the "Future Expansion" area
on the 2006 map), you've got a pretty good idea of our plans
for 2007!

http://www.burningman.com/whatisburningman/2004/04_brc_map.html

http://www.burningman.com/whatisburningman/2006/06_brc_map.html





The block lengths require a little geometry, based on the radius of the circular street. In an old post from a couple of years ago (2004), I found the radius to Esplanade was 2,100 feet. However, I seem to remember that it changed in a subsequent year. Not sure what it is this year. Anyone?

I believe the formula for the length around the edge of a circle (circumference) is (2) x (pi) x (r)

In English, that's 2 x 3.14159 x radius (in this case, the distance the street is from the Man.
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Postby StevenGoodman » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:07 pm

chrispburn wrote:The esplanade block is 365 deep

the subsequent blocks are 170 ft deep

(roads are usually 30 feet wide - and you may have to subtract some from your theme camp's space to account for that)


You do need to subtract the width of the roads. I believe the interior roads this year are going to be 20 feet; therefore the interior blocks are 150'.

The Esplanade block seems to be 345'.
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Postby bigbluedoggy » Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:15 pm

Hey there! So I was trying to figure out the shape of our new camp following the placement and ended up playing in CAD the other night for a couple of hours. I took the pdf and info from previous city designs and drew an overlay. Assuming from past cities that the designer likes big round numbers for his major dimensions and knowing the depth of the block (without streets), I figured the streets were on a 200' center with 30' streets and 170' deep blocks. Also knew that the inner esplanade was somewhere between 2000' and 2300' in radius. After playing with the circles and lines for awhile on top of the pdf, I believe that I am pretty close to an accurate layout The inner edge of the esplanade camps is on a 2100' radius. The inner edge of the Arctic / Boreal ring is on 2500' radius. Each successive ring is 200' larger in radius. The math on this makes the esplanade camps about 370' deep instead of 365', but I feel it is very close. A block along the esplanade where there is no keyhole has about a 520' frontage and the back edge of that deep block has about a 617' frontage.

I am dangerous late at night when curiosity takes over! I could be very wrong, but I don't think so. Anyone know the actual dimensions? I would be very curious to know at this point. I specialize in unimportant trivial detail :-P You can see a chunk of my layout on our website if you care.

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Postby sputnik » Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:25 pm

I think you are pretty much right on the money.
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Postby StevenGoodman » Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:29 pm

Make sure you use the new map. The interior blocks are thinner this year, and there are more of them.

http://www.burningman.com/preparation/maps/07_maps/

My analysis, based purely on looking at the size of the various camps determines the interior blocks to be 150' deep. Doesn't mean I have it correct!
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Postby bigbluedoggy » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:05 pm

In another thread, MikeVDS put up this diagram showing a depth on a double block of 400' which seems to contradict the 150' deep block idea Image

Although in my scenario the block would be 370', not 400'

Apparently these dimensions were specifically given by placement.

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Postby MikeVDS » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:18 pm

Apparently these dimensions were specifically given by placement.


That is my assumption. I don't think he would have included exact dimensions if that wasn't what he was told. Also seeing the cut out parts it's only reasonable to assume someone told our Mayor those dimensions. That is also between C and E, other blocks may vary.
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Postby bigbluedoggy » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:27 pm

That layout also does not factor in the curvature of the streets. As it says in the placement email, things could be different once you get there. It's always fun to speculate and try to figure it out though! I am just glad we got more real estate than we asked for, even though we didn't get our plaza placement. Given the reduced size of the blocks, we would have been quite cozy there on the plaza, and our camp has grown to about 20 or so in the last couple of months anyway.

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Postby sputnik » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:31 pm

Here is what I got from another board from a friend who knows people:

* Same Esplanade size as last year, 2100 feet from Man to center of Esplanade road.

* First Esplanade blocks: center of Esplanade street to center of "A" street block = 400'. block is 365' deep.

* All other blocks: center of "A" street to center of "B" street = 200', and depth of that second block, as well as all eleven (!) succeeding blocks = 170'
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Postby bigbluedoggy » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:48 pm

yay I feel so redeemed! hahaha Thanks sputnik! I know I met you last year....

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Postby StevenGoodman » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:53 pm

sputnik wrote:Here is what I got from another board from a friend who knows people:

* Same Esplanade size as last year, 2100 feet from Man to center of Esplanade road.

* First Esplanade blocks: center of Esplanade street to center of "A" street block = 400'. block is 365' deep.

* All other blocks: center of "A" street to center of "B" street = 200', and depth of that second block, as well as all eleven (!) succeeding blocks = 170'


170' - 20' = 150'?

I am basing my guess on sections of the Theme Camp Placement like this:

2:00 and Arctic 100 x 200
2:00 and Boreal 50 x 150
2:00 and Boreal 150 x 200
2:00 and Coral Reef 150 x 250
2:00 and Desert 150 x 200
2:00 and Estuary 150 x 150
2:00 and Fresh Water 150 x 300

Every block has 150' of frontage listed. But it could be 170' and they are just rounding the numbers.

Similarly, some of the camps on Esplanade are listed as being 400' deep. But they can't really be 400'?

Mostly, it is just fun trying to figure it all out! :)
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Postby bigbluedoggy » Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:03 pm

I suspect there is a good deal of rounding used in the placement list. They intimate as much in the letter. Rounding 365 up to 400 is not nearly as traumatic a change for a jumbo camp as rounding 80 up to 100 would be for a smaller camp. For the smaller plots I think they are a bit more accurate. And of course it is a square reference to a round layout, so there has to be some give in there. Like you said, it is possible that we will all lose 15' from our depth because of the roads, but I don't think that will be the case. What becomes most apparent on this thread is that the lot of us are very curious and dare I say anal in wanting the details to line up... hahaha Nothing personal: I am casting the stone at myself first!

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Postby sputnik » Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:19 am

Steve,

It's 200' - 30' = 170'

200' from the middle of one road to the middle of the next. Each road is 30' wide, thus there is 15' taken off each side of the block making it 170'. What they are saying is that each block excluding the streets is 170' deep.
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Postby Teo del Fuego » Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:59 am

Thanks to all our mathematicians! You guys are scarey! :lol:

Forgive me for pressing this a bit, but does anyone have an idea what the dimensions would be for 4:30 and H? Our camp, Mile High Club, is a little fretful we may not have enough space as we were placed at 75 x 100 and our plane-shaped shade structure is 80' wide and we planned on having the front of the plane face our frontage street. Personally, I dont think it will be a problem, at least not one that cant be cured with a well-chilled bribe or two to our neighbors. If I knew the dimensions of the blocks arond that area, I might be able to figure how the other camps, based on their dimensions and frontage streets, fit together, and then figure out who are immediate next-door neighbors will be. Maybe not. 4:30 and "H" could be at least 6 different places on the Playa I suppose.
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Postby sputnik » Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:11 am

My understanding is that the first dimension is your frontage (75' in your case) with the other dimension being the depth. Negotiate with your neighbors.

Now, if the blocks are really 150' deep, then it would make more sense the other way around.
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Postby Dork » Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:13 am

Anyone know where the portapotties are? I'm trying to figure out the arrangement on my block and there's a 100x75 chunk that seems unaccounted for. I'm wondering if it's overflow or portapotties.

150 x 350 on 4:30
75 x 100 on 4:30
75 x 250 on 4:30
50 x 75
100 x 150
50 x 100
(my camp) 50 x 150

They definitely seem to be planning everything, at least in my neighborhood, based on a 150 foot block.

Speculation is fun, isn't it?
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Postby Teo del Fuego » Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:59 am

sputnik wrote:the first dimension is your frontage


I wasn't clear....I knew that part already, but thanks for trying to help.

Maybe this will be more clear: I know our city "block" (which we share with other camps) is 150' deep (more or less). What is the distance from 4:30 to 5:00 at street "H" level? In other words, how "wide" is the city block we will be sharing at H-level?
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Postby sputnik » Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:12 pm

Teo del Fuego wrote:Maybe this will be more clear: I know our city "block" (which we share with other camps) is 150' deep (more or less). What is the distance from 4:30 to 5:00 at street "H" level? In other words, how "wide" is the city block we will be sharing at H-level?


Based on a radius of 3930' at H (assuming 170' blocks) you'll have 1028 feet or so at that level.

x = 3930 * 2 * Pi / 24

ETA: 984' if you use 150' deep blocks
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Postby sputnik » Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:50 pm

Assuming that the map that is posted is to scale, then I have the following observations:

I made the map really big on my screen (and I have a really big one) and measured:

1) I confirmed that my scale worked by measuring from the man to Esplanade and came up with 2100 feet.
2) 365' from the front edge of camps on Esplanade to the back edge on A street.
3) 170' from street edge to street edge of all subsequent blocks.
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Postby MikeVDS » Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:42 pm

Sorry about the map guys. It seems that was preliminary sketch based on old information and guesses.
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Postby chrispburn » Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:31 pm

Dork wrote:Anyone know where the portapotties are?


I asked this on the Portapottie project thread, and RobbiDobb said not yet, as of today, july 31

http://eplaya.burningman.com/viewtopic.php?t=8935&start=150
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Postby bigbluedoggy » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:10 am

OK, so I got really bored tonite and decided to finish my layout of BRC in Vectorworks. If any of you out there wish to play with my drawing and use it for your own reference, I offer it to you under the condition that you don't hold me responsible if your camp ends up 50' short on one edge. Here's a link. This will only do you some good if you are working in Vectorworks 12.5. If you want it in some earlier version or ACAD, let me know. I can export to other versions and ACAD, but won't bother unless someone wants it. Enjoy!!

http://destinylounge.outtatheway.com/BRCLayout

By the way I made the adjustment putting the even 200' lines in the centers of all of the roads, not the edge like I originally had it.

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Postby StevenGoodman » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:36 am

Can you put it in some simple and stupid like Power Point?
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Postby bigbluedoggy » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:55 am

Um, sure... but it already was in something simple and stupid as a pdf... lol. So now I made a jpg and a pdf of my scale drawing, making it pretty much as useless for accuracy as the one from BMORG... but there ya go :-)

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Postby StevenGoodman » Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:01 am

I may have thought you did more than I expected?

To me, "OK, so I got really bored tonite and decided to finish my layout of BRC in Vectorworks." To mean would mean all the Camps! Last year I plotted all the camps, but I never published it.

I am just being lazy, this year I want someone else to do it for me.
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Postby bigbluedoggy » Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:04 am

LOL... sorry! To be frank, the info they have provided for placement is not accurate to even figure out what side of the street most camps are on, let alone lay them all out on a map. I am sure a map will appear with that info in due course. I will say that my pdf blows up far better than the one on the website. If I had the info required I would be glad to lay them into this map, time permitting.

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Postby StevenGoodman » Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:32 am

I never thought I had everything correct. But I wandered around and I was very accurate in my guesses. There are often camps that could be switched. But I didn't worry too much about two camps being switched.
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