911TRUTHBURN

Postby Dork » Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:51 pm

moshe! wrote:All political "art" at Burning Man makes me want to vomit.
preaching to the choir anyone?

The subject matter is hardly a popular one. One thing I love about Burning Man is that it provides a big blank canvas for people to make any statement they want. How widely accepted or marketable it might be is not a concern, at least with the non-funded stuff. If you aren't into something, it's easy enough to find something else amusing to do with your time.

I'd love to see something destroyed by thermite, hear the arguments about your theory, and likely still not believe any of it. Just like some will never believe it was just a bunch of guys flying airplanes into big buildings.
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Postby moshe! » Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:10 pm

Dork wrote:
moshe! wrote:All political "art" at Burning Man makes me want to vomit.
preaching to the choir anyone?

The subject matter is hardly a popular one. One thing I love about Burning Man is that it provides a big blank canvas for people to make any statement they want. How widely accepted or marketable it might be is not a concern, at least with the non-funded stuff. If you aren't into something, it's easy enough to find something else amusing to do with your time.

I'd love to see something destroyed by thermite, hear the arguments about your theory, and likely still not believe any of it. Just like some will never believe it was just a bunch of guys flying airplanes into big buildings.


Honestly, its not the subject this particular project chose(although I cant say im a big fan of that either) but rather that seeing the (increasing number imo) of political peices on the playa is
a. an assault on the senses. Politics seems liek somthing we should be leaving behind at the gate. Like emails, voicemails, cable(although I wouldnt mind catching the fights up there) and the rest of "babylon"

b. rather pointless. Do we actually think its making a difference be making liberal art at BURNING MAN? Black rock city probably has the lowest number os right wingers per capita than any city in america. So are we really trying to get people to see the "truth" or congradulating ourselves for how righetous and educated we are?

That being said, anything involving explosions and thermite(whatever that is) is welcome.
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Postby MikeVDS » Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:06 pm

Matt is just still got a burr in his saddle from Mike giving him some hell over in another thread last week.


Yep I think that's it. Took me a minute to remember what it was, but it still makes me laugh when I think about it. I was changing his topic (humorously IMO), but I still think he was trolling. Yep, Matt, if you weren't intentially trolling, sorry, but maybe reread and see what it looks like. You post was a very thinly veiled attempt to appear as someone who opposes some of the core burningman ideals. If you want to see, here is the link:

http://eplaya.burningman.com/viewtopic.php?t=20335

Anyway, I don't mind the occasional poking stick. His tickles.

Politics seems liek somthing we should be leaving behind at the gate. Like emails, voicemails, cable(although I wouldnt mind catching the fights up there) and the rest of "babylon"


That's really a choice you make. I rarely get involved with politics, and when I do it's usually when someone is being factually misrepresented in the scientific realm. Regardless of the message you can ignore it though. I think it is usually just a cheap trick to inspire emotion in what would otherwise be "bad art". Art is there to inspire some emotion and effects people differently. When you got political you don't need much talent to inspire emotions. Even if I do typically think it's poor artistic form, I will support it being there. I'm sure some people love it, and even if they don't, I don't think we should limit the subjects people can present.
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Postby moshe! » Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:31 pm

MikeVDS wrote:
Even if I do typically think it's poor artistic form, I will support it being there. I'm sure some people love it, and even if they don't, I don't think we should limit the subjects people can present.


No doubt. Im not calling for a ban on it, im advocating for my right to vomit on it.
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Postby dragonfly Jafe » Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:18 pm

politics aside, as I understand your plan from reading your blog, you seek to prove that thermite could have brought down the towers.

I don't think there is a question that that was possible, at least not to anyone familiar with thermite. Of course, there would have to be alot of persons in on it that have somehow kept silent for 6 years now... (something not even Bush's cabinet is very good at), and a whole host of other objections to such a theory, but hey - it's art, not science or engineering, so who cares.

What your project seems to completely ignore is disproving that the jets crashing into the towers alone could have done it as well. Without this crucial point made, the whole thing becomes just another flame fest in the desert. Or do you plan on cooking the beams first in a representative fire for an hour or so first? And have you calculated the stress in the (remaining) outer beams, and sized your "truth" tower to replicate those stresses?

But, it will be cool to watch (I like thermite too).

How do you plan to avoid fire scars and MOOP on the Playa (just curious)?
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Postby capjbadger » Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:15 am

Here's that part I don't understand:

Why do we need thermite to take down the towers?? The temp of the fire alone was enough to weaken the steel to cause a failure.

On the other hand, any excuse to light up some thermite is a good excuse. ;)

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Postby Token » Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:22 pm

capjbadger wrote:On the other hand, any excuse to light up some thermite is a good excuse. ;)


Amen!

A while back we gone done ~ a pound of thermite up in an old coffee can and put it on a big slab of ice. The idea was that the heat from the burning thermit would cause water to separate into H and O2, then ignite it and make a big BOOM.

Well, someone wiser than us went and said:"so you will have burning thermite shrapnel flying in all directions at the speed of sound, right"?

There I was in a proximity suit, sweating like a pig, holding a 10' pole with a flare tied to the end ...

The thermite lit. It went Super-Nova bright.

Those with welding goggles got to see the coffee can slide down the slab of ice, refracting a cool light show on the way down. Those with no goggles just saw bright light like staring into the sun.

In the end we had a big glass bowl with a pound of pure Iron in the center the same size as the coffee can, which was gone. And one very sweaty Token in a proximity suit with a flare on a stick.

No boom.
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Postby stew » Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:22 pm

Crazy people who set big things on fire.


Ah. That's why I love Burning Man.
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Postby capjbadger » Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:25 pm

Glass bowl? Was this on a pile of sand that melted??

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Postby Token » Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:54 pm

Yep, genuine Mojave dry lake bed.
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Postby trilobyte » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:13 am

Jafe's post brings up a good point. I'd be interested to see what kind of plans are in place to deal with the inevitable burn scarring and MOOP that this piece is going to create.

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Postby willyloafofphora » Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:49 pm

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Loose Thread 9/11

Postby HighwayCrossingFrog » Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:27 pm

I think the bottom line is that no one really knows what happened, and many people have strong opinions. People on both sides get very passionate and antagonistic. I myself do not believe in the 9/11 commision's explanations. (And no, I have not read the book cover to cover, but own it, reference it, and research the tragedy generally speaking.)

When I first heard of this whole truth movement I thought it was bogus. I watched it as a sort of a gag, being a synical New Yorker... but there are lots of 9/11 commision ideas that seem off to me. A lot of people feel that there is something significant going on with hiding facts over 9/11, and I believe there is something to be said for this. Lets not all be so sure, since none of us can be.

I like the idea and attention about the 9/11 truth movement at Burning Man. I'd like to believe that there is room for everyone at Burning Man.

Have a great burn everyone...

and man that hole in the pentagon does seem kind of small for a Boeing 757 to have hit it dead on... discuss ;).
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Postby Bob » Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:46 pm

So I guess you're going up to Burning Man early to help Cowboyangel with his art project.

Let us know how that works out.
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Postby HighwayCrossingFrog » Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:19 pm

Unfortunately, I just learned that I have walking pneumonia, and now can't make it. I am very disappointed. The Illuminati/Bush Administration must have heard of my plot to push the truth movement and infected me. Damn they are so cunning ;).

Have a great time, know that I am totally envious. But will be back in 08' with a vengence, umm for what I am not so sure.
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Postby MageWolf » Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:59 pm

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...and there is still no official explanation
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Postby MageWolf » Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:00 pm

those cave-dwelling hijackers are even more cunning than the illuminati. they somehow bypassed America's multi-hundred-billion dollar defenses and got NORAD to stand down!

we're fucked!
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Postby Valkyrie » Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:52 pm

moshe! wrote:So are we really trying to get people to see the "truth" or congradulating ourselves for how righetous and educated we are?


MikeVDS wrote:I think it is usually just a cheap trick to inspire emotion in what would otherwise be "bad art". Art is there to inspire some emotion and effects people differently. When you got political you don't need much talent to inspire emotions.


I really do wish there were such a thing as good political art these days. Hasn't been for a long time. We haven't had much since, what? Diego Rivera slipping Lenin in at the Rockefeller center? I think it's mostly because the purpose usually seems to precede the expression, rather than vice versa in other art. To me, it's like commissioning an artist to make a piece to match your couch.

Oh and who the heck cares about Bull007? He is not interesting. Thermite is interesting!
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Postby maccy » Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:42 am

Did anybody get to see this? According to http://911truthburn.blogspot.com/ it was due to happen at 12.30 or 1.00am early on Sunday morning.

That blog hasn't been updated since August 30, though. If it was a great success, I'd expect some sort of announcement by now.

If anybody is interested, here is a page with photos of the angle-cut steel girders that they're trying to claim were cut by thermite:

http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm

I think it's pretty clear that they were cut with cutting torches during the cleanup operation. I very much doubt that you could get thermite to cut a beam like that.

Which is why I think the 911 TruthBurn people have suddenly gone very quiet about all this.
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Postby scalefree » Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:43 am

[quote="maccy"]Did anybody get to see this? According to [url]http://911truthburn.blogspot.com/[/url] it was due to happen at 12.30 or 1.00am early on Sunday morning.

That blog hasn't been updated since August 30, though. If it was a great success, I'd expect some sort of announcement by now.[/quote]

It was disassembled & carted off, I think Sunday afternoon.
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Postby frenchblue1 » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:43 am

I heard the pillars were cut with a RotoZip.....and the conspiracy continues :D
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Postby maccy » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:26 am

They've updated the blog but it's pretty vague:

We just got back from Burning Man with a very successful thermite demonstration at the Truth sign. There are many details still in need of attention, so please be patient. We do have some great video. We burned about 80 lbs of thermite altogether and Richard Gage, AIA, gave an excellent talk before the burn. Yarrow Mahko and ae911truth's Bill Donelley were also in attendance.


http://911truthburn.blogspot.com/2007/09/updates-sept-4-2007.html

No video or photos so far, so I guess they're still thinking about how best to spin it...
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Postby maccy » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:33 am

scalefree wrote:It was disassembled & carted off, I think Sunday afternoon.


Was it still in one piece before they disassembled it? Was there any sign that the two supporting columns had been cut?
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Postby scalefree » Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:27 am

maccy wrote:
scalefree wrote:It was disassembled & carted off, I think Sunday afternoon.


Was it still in one piece before they disassembled it? Was there any sign that the two supporting columns had been cut?


I never saw any pyrotechnics near the sign & never saw any indications that the sign's columns had been cut. It was whole when it was taken down. I was camped practically across the street from it at 7:00 Esplanade & was keeping an eye on it throughout the week.
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Postby Bob » Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:34 am

Saving it for next year's theme, I'm sure.
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Postby maccy » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:07 pm

They've updated the blog with an account of what didn't happen:

http://911truthburn.blogspot.com/2007/09/updates-sept-4-2007.html

Some choice quotes:

As mentioned below, we made what I believe was a safe and smart decision not to place our thermite cutter charges on the sign itself, rather ignite them beneath the sign on a hunk of steel we obtained from another artist.


I contacted most of the major controlled demolition companies in the US and even one in Japan, to solicit bids for using thermite cutter charges to bring the sign down. I heard back from none of them. This left me, a novice in the field, to devise the devices myself.


Cost was a factor as well. I did get one bid from a shadowy tech person with ex-defense contacts in Virginia to build 2 sol-gel thermate cutter charges. The price was $10,000.00 per charge.


I think I'd be a bit annoyed if I'd made a donation towards the costs of this non-event.
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Postby MikeVDS » Sat Sep 08, 2007 7:50 pm

Is it a big surprise that this was not well thought out? :roll:
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Sun Sep 09, 2007 3:57 pm

i was thinking of getting a whole bunch of refridgerator boxes, making a 30 ft mock up of the towers, stringing them together with bungee, and then like those little hand-held toys where you push the button, and the figure collapses like a doll going limp, the participant could jump on a giant button, flames would go off on the 96th floor, little barbies and kens would begin to fall out the windows (also attached by elastic) and the whole thing would tumble down, in a spray of playadust....

after stepping off the button, the whole thing would spring back to life, good as new....ready to destroy again...how fucking cool is THAT?


there will be chocolate gold coins buried deep beneath the exhibit that my cronies and i will steal...


remember the maine.


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Postby Kinetik V » Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:26 pm

maccy wrote:I think I'd be a bit annoyed if I'd made a donation towards the costs of this non-event.


It couldn't be as bad as the money plowed into Jim Mason's Mechabolic project. The Big Rig Jig sculpture was cool, I even climbed inside it and I'm afraid of heights and tight spaces. But the one time I saw the Mechabolic it was sitting on the playa, forlorn, dead, cold to the world. Did the thing ever work and does anyone else think it was worth the money spent...including that last minute special email asking for a cool $20K?
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Postby Wrath7sins » Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:39 pm

Now THAT's an effin' cool idea! I used to have a couple of those collapsers when I was a kid. A giant one would be sweet! And if any wiseass decides he's gonna climb on it, you can hit the button and... :shock: :twisted:
*poke* is it flammable?
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