WTF??

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WTF??

Postby capjbadger » Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:05 pm

Could some mod kindly explain why "the fire elf/mayavin/third person perspective" is allowed to
a: run multiple sock accounts
b: spam the board with an endless stream of posts and pics that do nothing but eat bandwidth and storage space

Anyone? :(

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Postby Dork » Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:43 pm

I guess because he's hardly the only one using multiple accounts, and that's not the only rediculously long, image laden thread. The main difference is it's lacking the social aspect the others have. In general, we've been hesitant to be active in policing the gray areas like his threads. At one point we decided to give him a scolding for the blatant porn and copyrighted images, but I'm not sure that actually happened.

Do you have any suggestions for a policy that would reduce the negative effects from his threads without pissing off the bar thread and apokolyptica folk?
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Postby Eric » Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:06 pm

Isn't it easier to just plonk him if he bugs you? Add to "ignore" & "disallow contact"?

I did last year when I realized there was no value for me in anything he said.

I have the peace of never seeing his posts.
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Postby FabFascist » Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:56 pm

Dork wrote:Do you have any suggestions for a policy that would reduce the negative effects from his threads without pissing off the bar thread and apokolyptica folk?


I don't see the parallel... The bar thread has nowhere near the image posting of the thread in question, and the Apokiliptika threads are one off based "Propaganda" that has some artistic effort to follow the theme of their camp. I have never seen more than a pic or two at a time posted - unlike the completely unnecessary crap posted by fire elf and his various sock puppets.

You want a suggestion? Ok - how about implementing a policy of one image per post? Just a thought.
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Postby capjbadger » Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:07 pm

I have to agree with Fab. The threads you mentioned Dork are on topic and worthwhile. The fireelf is always just posting random crap that does not do anything for the members of the board.

Eric, he doesn't bug me per se. I too stopped reading his posts long ago. It just seemed to me that fireelf is blanently violating the spirit of the rules here with the multiple accounts/socks, and simply chewing up board resources with all the images. I know bandwidth is not free.

Dork, yes I know he's not the only one using socks, but the he's the only one that I know for sure (not being a mod or admin :) ), and he's the only one I really see abusing it.
Yes, it's a bit of a grey area and a judgement call on the mod's part. I wanted to bring the issue up to see if there was a reason this was being allowed to go on and I just didn't know.

I have always felt dealing with the issue/person directly rather than making a blanket ruling/policy was the best way. I don't see why it would have to affect the Bar or Apok threads. They add to the community here and it's many people posting, not just one spamming. And that reason (many posters vs. one) is the real main difference here.

I feel that the sprirt of the board rules already covers this and it's a judgement call for the mods/admins.
If something more helpful springs to mind I'll let ya know. Little brain drained from work today. ;)

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Postby MikeVDS » Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:28 pm

It just seemed to me that fireelf is blanently violating the spirit of the rules here with the multiple accounts/socks, and simply chewing up board resources with all the images. I know bandwidth is not free.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but this board does not host images except for our avatars. The images that he, and anyone else who adds them to their post, are served from a different server and shouldn't use us any eplaya bandwidth, except the one line of code linking to the picture, which is far less than this post is using. Most of the pictures I link to I serve off of our webserver.

I've seen him post in a couple threads, but it seems he sticks to his own little world most of the time. I personally like wandering through there occasionally and to me seems very much an extension of BM. I know there have been cases about linking to external images, but I don't recall the outcome, but realistically, if you're serving a copyrighted image from your webserver, you should not allow external linking if you don't want people to do it. I don't know what exact rules he's violating, but he doesn't personally bother me at all.
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Postby Dork » Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:50 pm

The bandwidth effects on our servers are small. The images are all external, so a post with 20 images and no text will require less bandwidth than the one I'm typing now. It will affect a user's bandwidth, but only if they view the thread. That's why he started his own threads in the first place, so they wouldn't crowd existing threads and people could choose to ignore them or not.

I guess we'll have to disagree about whether to handle something through policy or on an individual basis. When you have different rules for different people it often leads to a whole new shit storm. If it's blatant abuse that's one thing, I'm just not sure this qualifies because it is so isolated.
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Postby Token » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:07 pm

What if the guy is schizophrenic with multiple personalities? Would those be sock puppets or legitimate accounts.

For all we know he/they may be having a conversation with god, and a good one at that.

He seems to be just like any other loon walking the streets of downtown Wherever USA, having a heated discussion with their own personal Drop Dead Fred. Not really hurting anybody.
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Postby Archantael » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:27 pm

Unless he's putting the ORG at risk of a suit over copyrighted material or porn, or it's causing bandwidth problems I'd say leave it alone. I occasionally look at his stuff but for the most part I skip over it, hit the mark everything as read link and move on...I was surprised to see this thread even popped up!

I have to agree with the 1 image per post idea...

As for socks...I seriously doubt that given the sorry state of phpBB coupled with the existing moderation structure of the eplaya that quashing the extra accounts is even possible.
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Postby Dork » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:53 pm

Archantael wrote:As for socks...I seriously doubt that given the sorry state of phpBB coupled with the existing moderation structure of the eplaya that quashing the extra accounts is even possible.

We can often tell it's the same person because they have the same IP and their posts look the same, and there might be some ways to code in a little extra detection, but if someone really wants to they can avoid detection. Different computer, different IP, there's no way to tell it's the same person phpbb or otherwise. Even with the same IP they can claim to be two people living or working together.

We could always *gasp* ask people to only use one account if it's a problem.

Emily can delete users and ban IPs when necessary, but that's generally reserved for spambots.
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Postby FabFascist » Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:25 am

[quote="Token"]What if the guy is schizophrenic with multiple personalities? Would those be sock puppets or legitimate accounts.

For all we know he/they may be having a conversation with god, and a good one at that.

He seems to be just like any other loon walking the streets of downtown Wherever USA, having a heated discussion with their own personal Drop Dead Fred. Not really hurting anybody.[/quote]

Just because I have to say it...
Schizophrenia is not MPD. Now if they were both.. then I think that the personalities would probably be arguing with each other or paranoid that they were stalking each other...
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Postby Archantael » Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:51 am

Dork wrote:
Archantael wrote:As for socks...I seriously doubt that given the sorry state of phpBB coupled with the existing moderation structure of the eplaya that quashing the extra accounts is even possible.

We can often tell it's the same person because they have the same IP and their posts look the same, and there might be some ways to code in a little extra detection, but if someone really wants to they can avoid detection. Different computer, different IP, there's no way to tell it's the same person phpbb or otherwise. Even with the same IP they can claim to be two people living or working together.

We could always *gasp* ask people to only use one account if it's a problem.

Emily can delete users and ban IPs when necessary, but that's generally reserved for spambots.


Not that I know anything about the topic of socks...my spreadsheet had over 50 different entries on it to help me keep track when I was running them at my peak over 2 years ago...but there are ways to make it all work. Running each post through translation software and back, grammar checking, cut and paste sections of other people's posts...the style or voice of the post can be very easily influenced. As for the IP that's a bit harder to get around but I'm sitting here with access to no less than 8 completely separate ways to get online....each with different IP addresses and 3/4 of them will originate from different parts of the country so it can't be tracked back to the Midwest...

In fact the need for better sock control along with frustration at how the board was run was why I setup my own phpBB site and learned the ins and outs of how it worked.....at one point I had the primary board and two test sites active...in short I got serious with it and while some of it was negatively directed towards my online arch enemy most of the time I had a ball with it and the technical skills I gained have served me well.

But that was then, this is now. Socks are time suckers...massive time suckers and I've got new time suckers in the form of a vintage travel trailer that I'm restoring (sandblasting, anyone?)...oh and there's my girlfriend saying I spend too much time online so I dumped the socks. But my point for writing all of this...I know a few things about the subject and I wouldn't mind sharing that info with the mod team if they are truly interested in curbing the problem. Keep the offer in mind...it's a standing one.
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Postby EvilDustBooger » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:03 am

Yeah. This is a tough one. But I think I`ve found something
to help define the problem.
Please note paragraph (a) in the "Expected Behavior"
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Postby MozyBonz » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:36 am

Elf is part of the e-playa landscape.
I for one would miss him.
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Postby Toolmaker » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:01 pm

I think alot of the pictures in Fire Elfs thread are great. His thread is one thing I look forward to and I missed it during my recent move. As far as the porn maybe a spanking is in order. I know nothing about whether or not it legal to link to a copywritten image like the Magic card game pics or Madballs but I do like the pics. If he must be spanked please do it with love and allow him to continue posting the art.
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