Business 2.0 Article

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Business 2.0 Article

Postby Nickel » Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:45 pm

http://mag1.olivesoftware.com/ActiveMag ... d3e4r5.asp

Check out Page 17 for the ad:

Ad Text: "Here's the value proposition: 40,000 of the smartest most socially networked content-generationg people on the planet, whose tolerance for B.S. is negative point-five, all checking out your product."

Also, read the article on Page 66.

What are everyone thoughts on this? Is it ruining the event? Is it a good thing? Is this the end of BM, or a new beginning?

* I edited out my thoughts to make this a more productive discussion.
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Postby Fat SAM » Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:08 am

This is one of the most disheartening things I've ever read about Burning Man. I'm actually having second thoughts....I think everyone should take a look at this article. If ever there was a year to choose to go wild at a theme camp, this is it. Talk about going into the temple and turning over the tables of the money changers...What could happen to me? Lawsuits? I don't have anything they could take from me. The article says that Burning Man is going to kill itself to save the world. Cute. That's real cute. I don't like it.

What the hell is the pavilion that the article keeps mentioning? It's not going to be a trade show, but it's there is going to be a pavilion where unbranded products are going to be shown by unbranded reps. Bullshit. The whispers will be heard from across the playa.

Wow. What a sinking feeling I have.
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Postby Fat SAM » Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:14 am

I just went back and saw the ad...I didn't even notice it and just went straight to the article. We all just got sold...
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Postby Nickel » Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:27 am

Fat SAM wrote:I just went back and saw the ad...I didn't even notice it and just went straight to the article. We all just got sold...


Agreed. I saw the article first and was to put it lightly, disheartened. Then I saw the ad and was terrified.

I want to bring a petition to the playa this year to let BMORG know that this doesn't sit well with people. I am sure they'll hear it from enough people, but maybe a stack of thousands of signatures would really say something. Anyone else feel like this might be useful?

I'm going to have to really enjoy myself this year, because I don't know how I'm going to feel about it if it gets any worse....
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Postby Fat SAM » Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:31 am

Consider it signed. I don't know what kind of a difference it's going to make though. The article and everyone involved already acknowledges how burners ("that's what Burning Man participants call themselves") feel about commercialism.

If I go...and if this persists...this is my last year. Time to start my own party.
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Stormclouds on the Horizon

Postby bmix » Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:11 am

From the article:
"That's a very interesting potential for companies that see a value in Burning Man culture."

From Marian Goodell:

"The business model can totally function without Larry Harvey."

Finally, from The Hat himself:

"Make your customers feel like owners."


Whether this is good or bad can and will be debated. All I know is that after reading the entire article, I feel very similar to how I felt when someone told me one of my friends had throat cancer.
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Stormclouds Again

Postby bmix » Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:15 am

Oh, yeah... petitions, protests, civil disobedience? Sign me up, all of the above. Somebody made a cannon that fires pants, for crying out loud. I think we can pretty much pull off anything we want.
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Re: Stormclouds Again

Postby Nickel » Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:43 am

bmix wrote:Oh, yeah... petitions, protests, civil disobedience? Sign me up, all of the above. Somebody made a cannon that fires pants, for crying out loud. I think we can pretty much pull off anything we want.


I was more meaning, would it have any effect. Although thinking more on it, maybe that isn't the point. It is useful to do it just to defend what is so special about the event. Keep your corporate logos away from my beautiful home. I'll do my best to draft a petition while I'm on vacation this weekend.
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Postby Lassen Forge » Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:15 am

Except... not go. If you were that pissed about it you'd blow off BRC and start your OWN event. NOT buy a ticket, NOT be on this board, NOT feed the behemoth, and NOT be a sheep.

Because... if enough people don't like it, and don't go, then it will cease to be such a potential lucrative property. People vote with their feet, and the corporation and the advertisers both see it that way. Start your own gig. Why the fuck not? If they can do it, you can. Or can you? Got guts?

I would bet, however, that the population will continue to increase. People want to be there, they want to go be a "burner". Be in the flock of sheep that stand out, like all the other sheep. Naw... this thing'll never die. Would you, could you say "fuck it", and never go again? Thought not...

As to the org? It's their event, their corporation, their gig, they own it. It's NOT yours. If they want to sell it (and you) down the river, it's their right. Right? Right. And just wait until the regionals kick in - why only have one burning man to sell when you can have hundreds, all sporting your logo, all paying you royalties, all sucking the $$$ from the sheep and the advertisers and sponsors. I can see in a decade *everyone* will be (or want to be) a "burner"... then what? It's a sound business move by the llc.

My only regret - my ONLY regret - is I didn't get in on the ground floor all those years ago. No shit. I woulda jumped at the chance. Still would. And ya know what? I'd be backing what they're doing right now, as it benefits the business, and my bottom line. I hope to god someday they go public - I wanna get on the ground floor of that one. You betcha!

So... shaddup and buy yer fucking ticket and quit yer bitchin... and we'll see ya out there!

bb
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Postby Nickel » Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:25 am

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:Except... not go. If you were that pissed about it you'd blow off BRC and start your OWN event. NOT buy a ticket, NOT be on this board, NOT feed the behemoth, and NOT be a sheep.

Because... if enough people don't like it, and don't go, then it will cease to be such a potential lucrative property. People vote with their feet, and the corporation and the advertisers both see it that way. Start your own gig. Why the fuck not? If they can do it, you can. Or can you? Got guts?

I would bet, however, that the population will continue to increase. People want to be there, they want to go be a "burner". Be in the flock of sheep that stand out, like all the other sheep. Naw... this thing'll never die. Would you, could you say "fuck it", and never go again? Thought not...

As to the org? It's their event, their corporation, their gig, they own it. It's NOT yours. If they want to sell it (and you) down the river, it's their right. Right? Right. And just wait until the regionals kick in - why only have one burning man to sell when you can have hundreds, all sporting your logo, all paying you royalties, all sucking the $$$ from the sheep and the advertisers and sponsors. I can see in a decade *everyone* will be (or want to be) a "burner"... then what? It's a sound business move by the llc.

My only regret - my ONLY regret - is I didn't get in on the ground floor all those years ago. No shit. I woulda jumped at the chance. Still would. And ya know what? I'd be backing what they're doing right now, as it benefits the business, and my bottom line. I hope to god someday they go public - I wanna get on the ground floor of that one. You betcha!

So... shaddup and buy yer fucking ticket and quit yer bitchin... and we'll see ya out there!

bb


Of course I'll still be there, this year at least, and likely the next, and the next. I just feel it is important to stand up for the fact that putting corporate branding all over the playa makes it into Coachella or some radio station sponsored concert. It changes it into a completely different beast. If BMORG continues to go along in this fashion, I agree with you, it will likely continue to "grow" but in 5 years, 10 years, many of the people who help to make Burning Man what it is will stop coming (I'm not including myself in this, I'm certainly not one of the magnificent ones) and the event will dwindle (perhaps not in numbers, but certainly in spirituality).

Also, remember that I'm not entirely convinced that it is a terrible thing. It just feels that way. It goes against the true grain that everyone will always tell someone who has never been to the playa. The gifting culture is directly assaulted by corporating the playa, and I think that if this trend continues, we'll see quite a different place in the years to come.

And once again, you are right, I will continue to go, until the frats outnumber the artists, and the spirit of the event dies and given the current path, that day, will sadly come, and sooner than anyone would like.
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Postby Dork » Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:41 am

I'll still go this year, but my initial reaction to reading the article is to just bag it all and go find a new hobby. I didn't like the "Current TV" stuff, or them pushing reverend Billy down our throats, or that reality show, or any of the other similar tie-ins. Now I get the impression those were just test runs - they've built up a lot of brand loyalty and now they're preparing to spend it.

10,000 of us could revolt and stop going, it wouldn't affect them. In a way it would make things easier - those left behind would be the ones most willing to put up with a little advertising here and there.

Anyone up for organizing some picketing of the pavilion? I'm not up for that end of things, but can provide materials and time. It would be great to submit some protests to the who/what/where and see what happens.
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Postby Das Bus » Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:52 am

The original explanation of the 'pavillion' on the BM site, was horrendous. I had posted the link to it, with a response like "WTF???", or something. But then the Project reworded the page, and it sounded much easier to swallow.

This 2.0 article has some things that sound good; like the company that will be donating all those solar panels to Gerlach. Other things, not so good.

What I have always objected to, is people thinking that this whole thing is done out of the 'goodness' of the Org's heart. It's been about profit for many years, and it has to be. It's not like Bill Gates is throwing us 10 million dollars to have a party. There ARE people who are working 24/7 to pull this thing off, for profit. However, without all the volunteers, the Burning Man we know and love, couldn't happen.

I'm very curious to see how this will all be set up. I hope to see some really cool art from this <ahem> "Green" technology. Although, if the ultimate goal is to 'market' their products to ME, well, their S.O.L.. It's not like I can afford any of their crap. I'm still trying to scrape up the funds for tickets. : P
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Postby gyre » Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:51 am

So, Nickel, how did you see this article?
Don't tell us you engage in commerce off the playa?!
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A creative idea to kick things off ...

Postby Zhust » Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:38 am

My first thought was to boycott any company that spoke its name.

But then I thought that's not enough. I'd like to know what companies will be there and become "representatives" of them. I'm sure [insert big corporation here] would love to have a photograph of one of their "representatives" passing the bowl.

If they bring their logos and brands, well, let's have fun with them!

...

After having read the article, I'm not as concerned. People may come, but in Black Rock City, a corporation is not a person. In a legal sense -- given the "corporate personhood" shit we have in this country, Google didn't buy a ticket so Google can't come. People who work for Google can, though.

The idea of a pavilion seems really dumb. I "showcased" a Savonius rotor windmill -- and I could say it was for the benefit of my company [self-employed] -- but it was simply part of an art project. If corporations would like to get involved with artists and supply the products that make the event run, fine. Don't just sit there behind a table with no name on it in a tent somewhere and expect anybody to give a shit.
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Postby Fat SAM » Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:26 am

I don't have a ticket yet. I've been throwing my own tiny events for years. I'm not one of the beautiful people at Burning Man. I'm not an artist, I don't own a gallery, don't know how to weld, don't own a successful internet startup. Hell, I didn't even know I was supposed to be out there 'networking.' Wish I had. I'd probably be less broke.

There's a lot about Burning Man I really like. I love the ineracting with the people I meet out there. I'm definitely not part of the leet, though. Most of the people I meet there wouldn't recognize me in the city and probably wouldn't piss me two squirts if I was on fire. It's kind of the Breakfast Club phenomenon, you know? We're cool in the library, but don't be offended if I don't talk to you when we get back to school. It's not true of everybody, for sure. I've met some truly open people who are cool on and off the playa. More and more, though, I'm finding that if you don't have the right look or the money to go to all the right places, you don't get accepted in the 'arts community'.

So do I have the guts to quit going? You bet. Shit. If the goal is to network out there, I don't even have a reason for going. Or maybe I do...maybe I'll go this year and just network. Pass out samples of my photography, wear a suit and tie all week, and sell my product. There's quite a receptive market there, from what I understand. I can use what Burning Man has to offer and then never go again. I've got schoolwork to do and authenticity to seek.

I'm a world class disruptor, too. Even in a place like BRC. If I do go, you'll probably find me at the pavillion. I'll be the guy with the bullhorn passing out copies of that lovely ad on page 17.
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Postby MikeVDS » Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:35 am

I don't see the big deal with the article. I've thought the same thing myself. It really is a good test run for new ideas. I love the doom and gloom mentality that if anyone brings something new and innovative to the playa it'd be horrible if they ever tried to make a living and feed their families with that idea. If people bring junk, there will be some heckling and annoyance thrown toward someones ideas. If the ideas are cool, then people are bringing more to the community. I personally love that the playa mentality spills over into the default world. It is we who are spreading, not they who are invading.
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Postby meatball » Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:09 am

Money talks and as for the the make you own show thats a cop out jmo
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Postby Archantael » Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:11 am

I'm a world class disruptor, too. Even in a place like BRC. If I do go, you'll probably find me at the pavillion. I'll be the guy with the bullhorn passing out copies of that lovely ad on page 17.


I'm not sure I'll get to go this year but if I do, you won't be alone with the bullhorn. But while I'm posting I have to admit I'm a Google fanatic and I have serious doubts that they're going to do anything on the playa that "breaks the unwritten rules". I admit I look forward to seeing what they're going to bring out there and I hope their projects are successful. As for the rest of the people like the solar panel types and green power people...I kinda hope they fall flat. Just because they make it into the pavilion doesn't mean I'm going to give any of them any special consideration. When it comes to things like solar panels, I'll fall back on resources like Home Power magazine and not rely on someone's 'street cred" just because they were able to "bribe" the LLC into getting a place at the pavilion.

By the way while I'm ranting, I'm wondering what's it going to be like next year? Will the area between the Man and the Esplanade be filled with corporate booths? When will the officially sanctioned Black Rock Hardware / Camping Supply depot make it's appearance? When will Starbucks or Seattle's Best become the chief supplier of coffee for Center Camp? Will AG's film library project get sponsorship? Will Ranger radios go corporate so that the company can run promos advertising how their equipment holds up on the playa? In short...welcome to the slippery slope. The LLC has given you a nice shove and send off...now tuck your head down, be a good little burner and keep your mouth shut....you're just a marketing entry on a spreadsheet somewhere...think about that....

This year bears watching...if the corporate presence is too much then it's time to lobby hard to get the Denver BLM to ratchet up their fee structure and bring the event to a halt. It's better to kill it off on a high note than to let it degenerate into a corporate quagmire. (Thank You Company 2.0 for defining where the achilles heel is for the event! If the event won't listen to what it's participants want...sayonara!)
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Postby Lassen Forge » Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:41 am

Actually... I'd love to do a Black Rock Cycle and Mutant Vehicle Repair out there. I couldn't do it on the freebie at the extent I'd like to, but yeah... I could really get into a commercial aspect of this. Hire some mechanics, take everyone out there, set up a full LNT-worthy environmentally friendly professional workshop. Hell, contract out to the llc to work on all those fucked up carts, do the annual service on their fucked up vehicles, take some pressure off of DPW. Have a tow rig (I'm actually thinking of building this out anyway) to drag the dead mutants to the shop or back to their camp.

Then... I could take the money I made on this, invest it, and do something *really* kewl like run a subsidy investment account to finance something like a hotwheelz camp auxiliary. Like Espresso does but more to help people. Need a controller for your adapted art car? Blam - it's covered, brand new out of the box. Bad battery? Bam, replaced. THAT would be the best part of commodification out there.

Oh yeah... we'd also get paid to be there. Just like the big boys.
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Postby Miss Coolette » Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:35 am

Hello

I'm from the Antenna Group and this will be my 3rd burn. My boss, Melody Haller, is a wonderful woman. I think you all should save your judgments for August and the playa.

Burning man has always been controversial and always will be. Maybe this is a good way to shake people up a bit.

AND don't be mistaken - BM would never ever allow corporate branding on the playa. That is NOT what is going to happen.

Instead, think of it as environmental technology education. We're a PR firm dedicated to eco tech and Burning Man. We are simply bringing some fascinating and wonderful technology to the playa for education purposes. We're facilitating a conversation between companies trying to make a difference and thousands of people who are really good at participating.

There are a lot of things that go on out there, dirty evil things and I've seen them. There is also a TON of love and positivity as well. I think we should wait and see how the companies choose to represent their technologies before we say this is wrong and how dare you. Burning Man has always thrived on controversy and being radical. Think of this as the next step in that direction. And do some research to find out the real story.

My 2 cents.

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Postby MikeVDS » Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:59 am

Money talks and as for the the make you own show thats a cop out jmo


I can see how some might see it as a cop out, and if you don't like the direction the event is heading, then you're right, you should try to change it. What is a complete cop out is bitching about what the event is turning into, not doing anything about it and not doing your own thing instead. Making your own event is not a cop out because you're doing something about it other than bitching. "Burningman" is just a name, the community hold events all the time for the community and also outside of the community. It's not just a week long event in the summer for all those people who make the event worth attending, and those people are not going to easily change what they are doing.
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Postby Lassen Forge » Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:00 am

It's beyond controversy, it's commodification. THAT's the problem.
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Postby AntiM » Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:17 am

I'm going, I'm going to have a good time as usual, and I can ignore the pavilion if I care to. Heck, it might even be as benign as proposed. Don't know until I hit the dust.

Does a magazine article rankle or amuse? I went with rankle, then realized amused is a far stronger weapon.

They cannot sell us what we will not buy, no matter how hard they try. We're burners damn it, we can do anything. Or refuse to do anything, as the case may be.

Therefore, in the interest of my health and sanity, I ain't sweatin' it. Naive? Perhaps. But the event is ever changing, you have to take it for what it is or move on and DIY. I have got to find my copy of The Peter Principle.

It was better next year.
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Postby Dork » Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:17 am

Miss Coolette wrote:Hello

I'm from the Antenna Group and this will be my 3rd burn. My boss, Melody Haller, is a wonderful woman. I think you all should save your judgments for August and the playa.

Burning man has always been controversial and always will be. Maybe this is a good way to shake people up a bit.

AND don't be mistaken - BM would never ever allow corporate branding on the playa. That is NOT what is going to happen.

Instead, think of it as environmental technology education. We're a PR firm dedicated to eco tech and Burning Man. We are simply bringing some fascinating and wonderful technology to the playa for education purposes. We're facilitating a conversation between companies trying to make a difference and thousands of people who are really good at participating.

There are a lot of things that go on out there, dirty evil things and I've seen them. There is also a TON of love and positivity as well. I think we should wait and see how the companies choose to represent their technologies before we say this is wrong and how dare you. Burning Man has always thrived on controversy and being radical. Think of this as the next step in that direction. And do some research to find out the real story.

My 2 cents.

Miss Coolette


I don't blame the companies at all, and I don't care how they represent themselves. Your boss and those other companies see an advertising opportunity. If they didn't, they wouldn't be providing a 1.7 million dollar solar array, or whatever those turbines cost, or whatever other companies are bringing. I don't buy that they're doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. They WILL get advertising on the playa, and more importantly hope the effect will carry on beyond the event. Their participation will become a part of their marketing strategy, further blurring the line between the event and commerce. BMORG and its members will get the benefits of using the equipment plus who knows what other perks and money. They protect their copyright vigorously when someone tries to make money off the event on their own, but if you give them a cut it's ok.
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Really long post, and now I'm late for work, dangit.

Postby bmix » Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:56 am

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:Except... not go. If you were that pissed about it you'd blow off BRC and start your OWN event. NOT buy a ticket, NOT be on this board, NOT feed the behemoth, and NOT be a sheep.


Because, in spite of its flaws, Burning Man still matters. Read on...

Because... if enough people don't like it, and don't go, then it will cease to be such a potential lucrative property. People vote with their feet, and the corporation and the advertisers both see it that way. Start your own gig. Why the fuck not? If they can do it, you can. Or can you? Got guts?


This is your best point... Perhaps it is time for us all to branch out and "roll our own," so to speak. My state, Oklahoma, has its own honestagod playa, even. We went there, though, and found out it's a habitat for the Least Tern. Darn terns...

I would bet, however, that the population will continue to increase. People want to be there, they want to go be a "burner". Be in the flock of sheep that stand out, like all the other sheep. Naw... this thing'll never die. Would you, could you say "fuck it", and never go again? Thought not...


Agreed, on the "This thing'll never die" part. Disagreed on the "Thought not." My family has been going to the Tulsa state fair religiously for decades. We've worked there, shown livestock there, etc. A few months ago, the fair board decided to tear down a profitable, family amusement park that's been next door to the fairgrounds since 1951 (they said it was more valuable as a parking lot). So this year, we're not going and am in the planning stages of a protest with a group of like-minded, rabidly pissed-off locals. So yeah, if the powers that be screw it up enough, I won't go. This year, I already got the ticket, got plans, etc... plus I want to see if it's going to be as icky as I fear (the commercial aspect, not the event). Next year will be decision time.

As to the org? It's their event, their corporation, their gig, they own it. It's NOT yours. If they want to sell it (and you) down the river, it's their right. Right? Right. And just wait until the regionals kick in - why only have one burning man to sell when you can have hundreds, all sporting your logo, all paying you royalties, all sucking the $$$ from the sheep and the advertisers and sponsors. I can see in a decade *everyone* will be (or want to be) a "burner"... then what? It's a sound business move by the llc.


Agreed here as well. However, the org has always engendered a feeling of ownership among attendees. Whether the ownership was real or not, that's how people felt, and how they were encouraged to feel. If that feeling goes away, then so goeth the event, at least in the form we've enjoyed for the last fillintheblank years.

My only regret - my ONLY regret - is I didn't get in on the ground floor all those years ago. No shit. I woulda jumped at the chance. Still would. And ya know what? I'd be backing what they're doing right now, as it benefits the business, and my bottom line. I hope to god someday they go public - I wanna get on the ground floor of that one. You betcha!


With each stock purchase, would we get a Lemon Head candy? That'd be cool! But seriously, you actually have that chance now. As mentioned earlier, start your own! You could wear the hat. You would BE the org! Sounds awesome to me. I'd come to your burn if you'd come to mine...

So... shaddup and buy yer fucking ticket and quit yer bitchin... and we'll see ya out there!


Already got the tix, as did most of us. In fact, we're planning on getting there in the wee buttcrack-of-dawn hours on Monday. I hear there's something, um... interesting awaiting the early birds, ya?
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Postby Lassen Forge » Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:56 am

Damn...

Iknow what'll make me feel better...

I think I'll build a figure out of some old lumber I have lying around, tie it to the top of my truck, haul it out to Baker beach and burn it! A little late for the equinox, but no biggie.

Good way to blow off some steam. Wanna come along?

bb
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Postby EB » Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:56 am

I think this new relationship between the BORG and Corporate America is a result of a schism in the heart of the LLC itself. From all accounts, the event was started as a piece of art being burnt on Baker Beach. The act touched a lot of people in ways that simple, public acts of defiance (Burning the 'man') always touch people: It made them realize they were not alone.

Larry and the LLC capitalized on this notion, that, within our ever-so commodifying culture there was those of us who wanted a place - a sanctuary - to call our own. Brigham Young did the same thing a hundred years earlier. Earlier still, Moses. He staked out a place to "call our own" and put out a shingle and people came.

But somewhere along the line, Burning Man became less about a "dusty, well-lighted place" for like-minded folks to hang out for a week (and shoot guns, at least at first) and became more about being a "beacon" for the rest of society. The LLC took a look around and saw its volunteer army creating something that HAD VALUE in the corporate world. It's "non-commodifying" ethos, has, in a sense, become it's biggest commodity. My buddy who worked at the LA uber-ad agency Chiat Day remembers the creatives spitballing a Nissan commercial, saying it needed to be more "Burning Man."

And thus, the LLC has turned itself into the thing it sought to take us away from.

To them, it makes perfect sense. If you want to eventually be the "beacon" you're going to have to, at some point, appeal to the big money. Even hearing the theme announced this year, I had a pit in my stomach - The Green Man. Uh, oh. What happened to the apolitical Under The Sea? Or the Seven Ages of Man? Or the one that nobody understood about religion? Suddenly, this year's BM theme plugs right in to what's "cool" in corporate america. The upside of being associated with the "coolest" counter-culture event on the planet was too much.

I wonder if the event's theme was "Donkey Fucking" there would be as many corporations lining up to showcase their wares. (Tijuana Chamber of Commerce the lone exception.)

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for doing the right thing and making the world a better place and for solar power and whales. I've bought my ticket and will take the ride. But saving the world takes trade-offs and the BORG has just tipped the first (?) domino...
Irony. You're soaking in it.
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Postby Ron » Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:13 am

Many thanks for the link to the article. I had a vague idea of what was going on this year but the details are good. For myself I'll keep an open mind until I get on playa and make an opinion then. Right now I'm luke warm at best. One of the things I've most appreciated about the burn is the absence of corporate messages and knowing that just about everyone who shows up and works is doing so because they want to, rather than because they're being paid to. I'll reserve my final opinion until I see how it all works out but I do have some significant reservations.

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Postby MikeVDS » Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:20 am

I wonder if the event's theme was "Donkey Fucking" there would be as many corporations lining up to showcase their wares.


I'd sign a petition for you to choose next years theme.

-MikeVDS
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Postby Lassen Forge » Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:51 am

MikeVDS wrote:
EB wrote:I wonder if the event's theme was "Donkey Fucking" there would be as many corporations lining up to showcase their wares.


I'd sign a petition for you to choose next years theme.

-MikeVDS


He?? Haw!!!!!

Puttin' my ass on the line here...

bb
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