MASSIVE POWER DOWN ART INSTALLATION IDEA....

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Do you think a massive power down is a good idea for BM 2007?

YES?
17
68%
NO?
8
32%
 
Total votes : 25

MASSIVE POWER DOWN ART INSTALLATION IDEA....

Postby Uncle Fishbits » Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:32 pm

UPDATE: It is going through the proper channels, and I thank ALL of you for all of your support and excitement.... I cannot wait for the clearest moment and skies ever..... at least moment if not skies.....
==============================================

I have had this idea for a number of years... and would love some help
realizing it. With the advent of the Green Theme, I think it might be
time to put this together.

viewtopic.php?p=274485#274485

the forum seems to be down (at the time of writing this), but it is of no concern... I will retell exactly what I was thinking...

In response to the eco theme, I wanted to help create and foster a
moment of respect.. so to speak... to foster the community's
understanding that we are in a different world at burning man, but
need to come back to earth for a moment to show respect and love for
the planet. So if we can reconnect with the planet... at once, and
completely together... we can remember why we are at the burn, and
celebrating life in the first place.

Therefore... to help solidfy the connection of people together, as
well as with the earth... I suggest a massive and total power down at
about 11:00pm or midnight on thursday or friday... for about 5
minutes... so everyone can feel together, and bond and look up at the
clearest, darkest and most beautiful sky we have ever had the chance
to stand under... (and the only one we have had the chance to stand
under). SO.. everyone becomes an equal participant in the most all
encompassing moment at burning man... for us to come back to earth...
reconnect... and look up at the sky.. simply to realize what and who
we are.

Resultingly... everyone becomes a participant, having to work together
to turn off all the lights at the same time. Therefore you have the
largest art installation *EVER*... everyone participating, everyone
coming together at the same moment.... turning art into something that
creates community, bonds people, brings them out of their world (their
tent camp, their sonic stage... all of a suddent every boundary drops
and we are united under a veil of stars), and everyone into each
other's.....

*THIS* world.

I like the idea. And it is much less damaging than the idea of
setting off an EMP, which I mused with for about 10 seconds. Beyond
not knowing how to build or operate one, I am sure all the electronic
damage would be lame lame lame, and that is very unburn of me to be
lame. =)

Contact me at your leisure. I have sent this out to a couple other
friends as well.

unclefishbits@gmail.com
Uncle Fishbits
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~

Postby Toolmaker » Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:32 pm

I do not think it would be wise for alot of users on the city grid to go offline and come back at the same time. If people wanted to shut down their own powered lighting and whatnot it would be safe.
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Postby SED » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:40 pm

Fuck safety. This is a great idea.
It ain't the hanging, it's the drop.
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Postby Bob » Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:53 pm

Yeah, I hope it happens in the med tent in the middle of the night right when they're trying to find a vein for your little sister's IV catheter.
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Postby SED » Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:33 pm

Bob wrote:Yeah, I hope it happens in the med tent in the middle of the night right when they're trying to find a vein for your little sister's IV catheter.


If I had a little sister, this might be a concern.
It ain't the hanging, it's the drop.
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Postby Bob » Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:05 pm

How smart of you not to be concerned.
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Postby SED » Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:04 am

Bob wrote:How smart of you not to be concerned.


Well actually, I was smart to have strangled my little sister years ago. It freed me to become who I am.
It ain't the hanging, it's the drop.
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Postby actiongrl » Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:01 am

I just have to say that I'm vehemently opposed to being told I have to turn off and power down just because someone else wants everyone to do it, and if someone told me I had to I would very likely refuse. The end.
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Postby gyre » Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:27 am

I don't think it's necessary to power any systems down if the lights can be switched off.
It doesn't seem a lot to ask for the experience.
I've been to the desert before, but I had never seen stars like I did last year-2005.
That was as interesting as anything else out there.
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Postby SED » Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:34 am

actiongrl wrote:I just have to say that I'm vehemently opposed to being told I have to turn off and power down just because someone else wants everyone to do it, and if someone told me I had to I would very likely refuse. The end.



Doesn't seem likely to me that anyone would do that.

It just seems like it would be really fun to shut the sound and lights off for a few seconds.
It ain't the hanging, it's the drop.
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Postby helitack » Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:44 am

actiongrl wrote:I just have to say that I'm vehemently opposed to being told I have to turn off and power down just because someone else wants everyone to do it, and if someone told me I had to I would very likely refuse. The end.


Just like I fucking refuse to register my camera to a corporation on public land?
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Postby Bob » Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:25 pm

Speaking of primadonna paparazzi, I'm imagining as soon the lights go down you're going to see that many more photo flashes going off. Somebody should alert camera licensees as a condition for getting those fancy yellow badges, no? That is, if this power down business made any kind of sense.
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Postby mdmf007 » Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:14 pm

Im with SED on this one - I believe in cooperation, but really do not like to be forced to do "BLAH BLAH here" if someone ordered me to turn off my lights - even if I was walking over to the switch to do so, I would probably reconsider and walk right by it (depending on their tone).

If someone asked me to participate on th other hand, i would consider it.

Also as the provider of large generators 2+MW - if you stop using that much current, and then switch it back on - you just bought yourself a generator at 800K plus.

Even the 100KW generators do not like spiked loads and must be brought up slowly, or have the switch gear set to take shock like that.

and 5 minutes is not enough for most peoples eyes to acclimate and truly enjoy the experience.

just my 2 cents

later all
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Postby gyre » Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:57 pm

Presuming the technical problems can be solved with the big power and some camps cold fusion systems,
how about this, as an approach?




Ne plus rien avoir eclairement, s'il vous plait?

Maybe that would be acceptable?
"Everything is more wonderful when you do it with a car, don't you think?"
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Postby EspressoDude » Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:10 pm

mdmf007 wrote:
Also as the provider of large generators 2+MW - if you stop using that much current, and then switch it back on - you just bought yourself a generator at 800K plus.


later all


I haven't seen any generators that big on the playa, yet.... let's see diesel @ 1/2 pound per horsepower hour, 2mw = about 4000hp; is 2000 pounds of diesel or approx 300 gallons per hour....

What pipeline do you tap into???
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Postby Lassen Forge » Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:46 pm

I have bit my tounge on this for a while. But no more.

(1)Politically speaking - The best way to insure my non-cooperation is simple - tell me that I should do something, that someone has decided for all of us that we shall all do something, like shut down power, under some BS "green" theme. Guaranteed I won't do it.

(2) While I'm at it... "Green" man?? Environmentally conscientious? Give me a break. We burn toxic shit out there, putting tons of particulate matter and toxins into the atmosphere at horribly cold burn temps. We burn tons of hydrocarbon fuel getting there, and worse, in the hours and hours in line idling during exodus. We cook food using fossil fuel, even if we don't use electric light (as if) we burn fuel for light and heat. And batteries? You know how toxic batteries are? Yeah, right. Shall we talk about ice, or better, the power generated by Center Camp? Oh, by the way... "Bio-Diesel", aka french fry oil... is still BURNING OIL, nicce smell or not. Particulate producing and smoggy, as any burning hydrocarbons are.

Not saying green isn't good, but as a theme for a big-assed bonfire with 45,000 people? Sounds more like a marketing device than reality...

(And don't go to "smog credits" which is a device to allow more and worse pollution... grrr...)

bb
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Postby Zulegoona » Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:40 pm

But BBSue, Bio-Diesel gives the agribusinesses a market for there genetically engineered grain. that's good for the economy of my region
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Postby BAS » Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:57 pm

Actually, my interest in biodiesel/waste veggie oil is largely economic. It is almost exactly 2,000 miles from Racine, Wisconsin to Gerlach, NV! :shock: If I can make my own fuel for the trip, that is a HUGE savings!

Additionally, I kind of like the idea of turning off all the lights for a while, just to see how dark it gets. I don't see it coming off though, nor forcing people to do it.


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Postby Bob » Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:17 pm

Image

Burning Smelt?
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Postby gyre » Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:21 pm

Did I miss the part where anyone was being forced to do anything?

I plan on camping with a 75,000 watt system next year.
I'm proud to be part of the least fuel efficient city on the planet.

The Green Man is about the cycle of nature.
Does the green part mean something different to some of you?
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Postby Dustdevil » Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:17 pm

I must comment on ED's figures of diesel generator fuel consumption. My 70KW generator powered all of Illumination Village and several surrounding camps. We ran it continuosly and the fuel consumption, under an almost full load, was 1 1/2 gallons per hour for a weekly average. If you do the math, 2MW would burn approx 43 gallons per hour. We filled the genny each day and it consumed approx 35 gallons per day. For the amount of people it served, this really seems like an effective use of fuel. To make the most effective use of the current, we did come off of the unit with 220 three phase and stepped it down to 110 single phase at the distro boxes. This gave us approx 20% more current for the same fuel burn and allowed us to cover a larger area with less cables.
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Postby mdmf007 » Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:45 pm

I got you beat - Economy of scale rules here - our gensets burn the following, this is from YTD records 2006 from our response division.

2.2mw Caterpillar 3512 32GPH (2200HP) at 85%

6.5MW Pratt / Whitney 143GPH @ (4400HP) @ 85%

my little honda for the power outage in Western WA last week 5.5KW @.75gph - (thirsty little bastard) and no bigger than a large ice chest.

and our big boy a Pratt & Whitney Gas Turbine with GE power head 14MW - 375GPH at 9500HP @ 85% Comes on two tractor trailers, and includes 2 3500 Gallon fuel tankers. Enough to power 4500-5500 Homes or one ginormous string of christmas tree lights

What does this mean? Nothing - except the bigger the engine, the more efficient (usually)

BM has several gensets in the 400-500KW range. Biofuel gums em up. and shock loads do no good either.

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Postby BAS » Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:52 pm

BM has several gensets in the 400-500KW range. Biofuel gums em up. and shock loads do no good either.


How are you doing the biodiesel? Biodiesel made with methanol shouldn't be gumming up engines or generators (unless it had components made out of the wrong sort of rubber or plastic-- in which case the gum comes from the plastic or rubber melting). Biodiesel made with methanol should be cleaning the gunk OUT of an engine or generator. :?


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Postby gyre » Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:42 pm

I wouldn't use methanol in a petrol engine.
I can't speak for a diesel.
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Postby BAS » Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:58 pm

I was working on the assumption that the generators were diesel. I don't know about putting methanol in a gas engine, and wouldn't want to try it without some serious research. (It is used as racing fuel, but those engines are designed for using it in the first place.)


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Postby mdmf007 » Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:10 pm

BAS -
Methanol is for petrol burning engines. The compression of a 19:1 or 22:1 diesel would pop before even starting

The Bio fuel I was speaking of was Soy Based Biodiesel. I forgot Methanol for gas and should have been more specific. All we deal with here is diesel so methanol is not on my mind.
Biodiesel just doesnt flow as cleanly and waxes up parts. It also thickens up lubricating oil in big diesel engines.

Our gas turbines on the other hand will run it like theres no tomorrow. We use a heat exchanging coil to raise the temp to 250+ degrees. Flows like water at that temp. Of course they will burn waste oil, kerosene, JP8, sweet crude(if hot enough). Just dont start worth a damn on wierd stuff.

Soyou start them, then slowly swith over as you can.

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Postby BAS » Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:57 pm

I was talking about biodiesel made from waste vegetable oil. The methanol is used as part of the process. Unfortunately, I don't have the info on hand at the moment-- since it looks like it will be a while before I can get the logistics worked out for doing the experimenting with the stuff. IIRC, the waste veg. oil is mixed with the methanol, which seperates out the glycerin...? Anyway, the resulting biodiesel is cheap and can run in a diesel engine with minimal modification. (It is also good for starting and stopping an engine being run on straight waste veg. oil-- it will clean out the lines and nozzles.)

Da--! I really need to figure out how to afford somewhere to store and work on an old school bus. I want to install a few hundred gallons worth of fuel tanks so I can make the trip to BM and back without refueling!


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THIS IS GODDAM HILARIOUS!!!!!!

Postby Uncle Fishbits » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:43 am

All you twisted motherfuckers. I am laughing heartily. Especially at Sue-eeeee.

Here's the deal... I didn't make it clear enough.

On monday late night, or tuesday early... you want to shut off your music and lights for the duration of the eclipse... DO IT!!! It will be an awesome moment of introspection.

For those like Sue...

turn on lights, sound, etc... and be a bore. I don't give one shit at all.

This man is turning into a piece of crap... everything thinks the lawsuits and philosoph battles matter.

THEY ARE A WASTE OF TIME.

Be who you are... go out there.. do what you can, change what you can..... and chill out.

Yeah.. poi burners emit carbon footprints that are large. They are aware and compensating. The BM / Paper Man LLC is suing and battling.... we understand that it is complex, but doesn't need to effect all of our energy towards the event.

Rise above it .. people. Rise above it. Just go out there and have fun. Try to do good... with as much info as we have for this moment. Try to push good vibe. There... easy... done. Enough.

If you wanna be part of it, COOOOOOL! It will be nice. Maybe Lorin Bassnectar will rise to the occasion and bring our energy up at the end of the eclipse.

Otherwise... Sue... WHO CARES?!?!? don't be part of it. Why would I want to control someone like you ANYWAY?!?! The fact is a good portion of BM'ers are paranoid delusionals that think that everyone is against them.

I am just looking to connect while having a good time. WHATEVER.
Uncle Fishbits
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for which no remedy exists, unless
laughter can be said to remedy
anything".
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FIGHT WARS
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I should type something here.

Postby Uncle Fishbits » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:52 am

Sed, et al, thanks.

I never said anyone HAD TO.

I am just saying... wow. Reconnect. Cool.

The people the protest the most will more than likely be asleep.

Crotchedy old bastards!

JOKING JOKING! I don't want people coming back and whomping me. All in good spirits and pushing good vibe.

And I am not even a hippy. Go figure.
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for which no remedy exists, unless
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anything".
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Postby Lassen Forge » Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:22 am

Looks like I struck a nerve, did I not? And from so far back - I had to re-read my post to see what I wrote that got Fishbits all antsy...

Evil and Not as boring as you'd like bb

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